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I’m seeking a stem separation software program that can finally meet my needs. I’m assuming the state-of-the-art is there; but I could be wrong and another year or two may be needed for this technology to mature.
My experience with SongMaster Pro (ver 2.1) has so far, been lackluster in this regard. When separating the bass I have found the resulting audio often sounds warbly and squishy and even has regions of no music at all when I know music should be there.
Here are some applications in no particular order that I understand can do at least a limited level of separation.
SongMaster Pro
Voice.ai Stem Splitter
Gaudio Studio
AuDimix
Ultimate Vocal Remover
Splitter AI
LALAL.AI
iZotope RX
RipX Daw
Spectralayers
Melodyne
Acon Digital Remix
Moises
Logic Pro (macOs Only)
Eventually, my final goal here is to produce quality bass tabs of songs I want to learn. Bass separation would be step #1 followed by (a different?) software to produce a tab from the stem. For me, a great solution would be if my DAW (Studio One) had this capability built-in but I'm not holding my breath.
Has anyone found an application that can extract bass stems you are actually happy with across at least 2 or 3 different genres? FWIW, I'd prefer a stand-alone program as opposed to a website for this.
If no, is anyone interested in doing a semi-deep dive on this subject offline?
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 10/06/24 12:41 PM.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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You forgot Rip X Daw You can watch some of examples from this Video How Harmonies work He is using Rip X in this video.
Last edited by Brian Hughes; 10/02/24 07:46 AM.
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Thanks, I added it to my list. Have you used it to separate bass?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I do not need to 'use' the stems in any further form; I only use Song Master Pro to hear them isolated when there is some question while I transcribe a song.
I cannot speak about all those other programs you listed, but I thought they all use the Spleeter technology, so I would be surprised if they produce markedly different results. That's just a guess, however.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I do not need to 'use' the stems in any further form; I only use Song Master Pro to hear them isolated when there is some question while I transcribe a song.
I cannot speak about all those other programs you listed, but I thought they all use the Spleeter technology, so I would be surprised if they produce markedly different results. That's just a guess, however. I have a number of Spleeter based apps including Ozone 11 Advanced. Spleeter doesn't do a good job separating the bass from the harmonics in the other instruments. Nothing does, really. Not hearing a bass line well enough to transcribe has never been my problem, however. Steinberg's Spectralayers Pro does a better job but nothing is great on bass. I used Spectralayers on a live recording I did about 25 years ago for a new recording of the same song. I was able to extract the voice of a friend who had passed away in 2008 to blend him into the chorus. On listening, I realized that my upright bass was at a similar tempo and, if isolated, would be nice to include it. My handicap precludes me from ever playing a string bass of any kind again. I had to give up after a few hours — just couldn't get the track clean enough to re-use. Easier to play it again using VIs.
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So far, FWIW, the consensus seems to be that the technology simply isn't there yet.
No doubt, to do this right is a herculean challenge. Imagine a song with a heavy kick drum, low-end piano and keyboard, maybe some tuba or trombone plus bass guitar; all hovering around the same frequency band. It really is asking a lot for an AI code to find and isolate the bass guitar "needle" in a giant low-end and time-changing "haystack".
That said, I believe it's just a matter of time before it's done and done well. The basis of my optimism is how LLMs have taken the computer community by storm; truly amazing, especially in medical applications.
I'm guessing that this will require a minimum 2-step process. Step #1 to isolate (as best it can) the bass instruments, in part by it's frequency content to produce a "pre-stem". Then Step #2 (the hard part) is to take that pre-stem and apply a musical knowledge to remove everything that isn't bass guitar. What remains would be the desired bass stem.
I believe that David Cuny first said that PGMusic would be well-positioned to do this kind of work because BiaB could be used to create training data sets for such an AI program.. Each data set would be made up of "the problem" (a song containing a bunch of overlapping low-frequency instruments) and "the solution" (the crystal-clear bass track). But you couldn't do this manually. You'd need to create a program to automatically create these sets by the thousands if not millions across a handful of instrument lists, genres, keys and tempos.
Thanks for mentioning Spectralayers, I added it to the list above.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Steve, I agree with your conclusion but since it is a technique in its relative infancy, I hope we will see improvement. It may never get to the point where it gets everything right, and you gave one good example.
While the isolated bass line may sound rather poor in Song Master Pro, there can be a benefit in having it muted if you want to hear the rest of the mix more easily, or use the track as a music-minus-one for bass.
Hearing the bass line certainly isn't any problem for me either, Mike, but if a tool exists to make it easier, why not use it?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Not just bass no. I separate the entire song to hear all the parts of a song I want to learn. The program has a couple of versions I believe and is quite powerful. I don't think it is perfect by any means but considering this was considered impossible some time ago. It was like how to un-bake a cake. For Mac users with Logic Pro 11 this feature is built into the software if you have a M chip.
I only use this program to dissect a songs parts to learn what it is doing. I do not use any of the parts itself.
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. . . there can be a benefit in having it muted if you want to hear the rest of the mix more easily, or use the track as a music-minus-one for bass. I hear ya Matt, I frequently "mute" the bass in Studio One using Pro EQ when I want to record bass over popular songs I like; basically high-pass filtering. This has served me well for years even back to my early Audacity days. Of course, no stem extraction is being applied in doing this but it does work well for its intended purpose.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Hearing the bass line certainly isn't any problem for me either, Mike, but if a tool exists to make it easier, why not use it? I wasn't directing that at you. Are you trying to make bass TAB?
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Are you trying to make bass TAB? Never touch the stuff.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines. I really don't have any use for isolated bass stems. I want to get an accurate transcription of the bass line, and then practice to the complete song, playing along with the original bass player. I have Melodyne Studio, so I can't tell you what the minimum version needs to be to get the different audio sources separated.
Melodyne is great for determining what is a bass note and what is a note from another instrument. If there are two notes close to each other in the piano roll view, just click on each blob to hear it and identify it. Melodyne is especially useful when dealing with microtonal sounds, like you could get from a double bass note played between "fret" positions.
For example, identifying the first two notes from Michael Arnopol's superb bass line In Patricia Barber's "Too Rich For My Blood" drove me nuts until I used Melodyne. I just couldn't get the right sound for those two notes on any my fretted basses. It turned out that the first note was 50 cents sharp, the second note was 25 cents sharp and the remainder of the 8 minute bass line was in a spot on F major. I came close with a fretted bass using a 1/2 bend for the first note and a 1/4 bend for the second, but it wasn't a smooth transition.
Being able to see the bass line blobs in Melodyne on the piano roll makes creating the bass line notation for a given song easy. Creating the tab after that takes some time playing through it and figuring out where you want to be on the neck for any given section.
It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO.
Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/02/24 11:51 PM.
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines.
It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO. Hey Maartian, thanks for your very thoughtful reply; I added Melodyne to the list above so to be visible in the coming days and weeks for anyone else interested in this subject. You are way further down the musical road than I am. Am I correct that your method is to view the entire mix (all instruments) in "blob format" and upon playback you're basically slowly and manually moving from blob to blob to identify bass notes? And then once identified you decide where on the fretboard to place that note on your tab? If yes, I'd say that's Melodyne-assisted manual transcription, a skill that I'd have to develop. FWIW, on many songs I want to learn I'll print the chord sheet and play only the root to verify my chord sheet is accurate; this gives me an idea of where on the fretboard I'm operating. If required, I'll start this at 10 or 20 BPM slower than the original. Then I'll slowly increase the complexity as required by adding the 5th, then arpeggios, then small fills/runs until I'm somewhat satisfied to claim "victory". I suppose this too is manual transcription, but not nearly as advanced as what you do. Of course, my basslines will always pale compared to the pro in the band. And so I'm looking for a better, minimal effort and maximal accuracy method to up my game.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix. It's a plugin for VST, VST3, or ProTools. It's made by the same folks who make Acoustica 7, the stereo editor I use now.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix. It's a plugin for VST, VST3, or ProTools. It's made by the same folks who make Acoustica 7, the stereo editor I use now. I totally forgot I had a license for this. It's in the Tools tab of Acoustica Premium. Thanks for the reminder!
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned Melodyne yet. I use it when transcribing bass lines.
It may be possible sometime in the future to have software generate an accurate notation of a single instrument from a band or orchestra performance, but automatic generation of the best tab from the notation won't happen any time soon, IMO. ... Am I correct that your method is to view the entire mix (all instruments) in "blob format" and upon playback you're basically slowly and manually moving from blob to blob to identify bass notes? And then once identified you decide where on the fretboard to place that note on your tab? If yes, I'd say that's Melodyne-assisted manual transcription, a skill that I'd have to develop. ... Yes, that's basically correct. In most cases, it's pretty obvious which blobs are the bass notes. It's only when the bassist is playing near the bridge on the D or G strings that notes from another instrument like a guitar or piano can make it confusing. That's the only time I need to audition the blobs. Also, I make no attempt to go straight to tab. The first step is to transcribe the bass line to notation. That is unambiguous. An A5 is an A5. But there are several A5's on the fretboard. I start working through the bass line notation and figure out where I want to be on the neck and then develop the tab from there (if I even want/need to create at tab).
Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/04/24 12:22 AM.
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I also overlooked one: Acon Digital Remix. I never heard of this one, thanks. We have quite a list. Assuming these applications represent different software teams and that these teams continue to maintain their products, there's a bunch of people working this problem which tells me that major progress is quite likely. Also, for you 6-string guitarists and maybe banjo players?, in principal, what we're talking about here could benefit you too.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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FWIW, I recently became aware of another player in this space; Moises.
So I tested it out on a song and the bass separation is roughly the same as SongMaster Pro . . . lackluster.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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FWIW, I recently became aware of another player in this space; Moises.
So I tested it out on a song and the bass separation is roughly the same as SongMaster Pro . . . lackluster. All of the Spleeter based apps perform about the same. Spleeter is open-sourced freeware if you want to try your hand at it.
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Logic Pro 11 has an impressive splitter. I’ve tried the bass removal on songs I played
on live with our band on stage and home
recordings. But all my bass was upright within the context of acoustic bands. I may try it at some point on a few recordings with electric bass. Whenever I get to a need something to do point. 😀
Bud
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 8 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Generate Lyrics for your Band-in-a-Box songs with LyricLab!
Need some lyrics to complete your Band-in-a-Box song? LyricLab is here to help!
LyricLab (by Joanne Cooper) is an AI-powered tool designed to quickly create lyrics and chords to fit your music. Just enter a rough idea of your lyrics, and let the AI bring them to life. Once you're happy with the results, simply import the LyricLab file into Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or newer. From there, you can pick your style and generate melodies to match your song’s chords!
Learn more about LyricLab here!
Watch the video.
Band-in-a-Box 2024 Italian for Mac is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
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