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Perhaps the Song Master Pro version differs, because I have SIX stems: How well does your version do on The Fortunes Song?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Perhaps the Song Master Pro version differs, because I have SIX stems:
Vocal
Drums
Guitar
Bass
Piano
The Rest Yes it does; those are omitted from the free version.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Ahhh, the old saying, "you only get what you pay for" <ha ha>
Thanks for the clarification.
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How well does your version do on The Fortunes Song? I wonder how worthwhile the experiment would be, since this is a compressed file on YouTube. What would recordings from the 60s have had for full frequency response even to start with?
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I have on occasion run several different stem-splitter applications in the hope of better results. This includes SMP (full version of course), Moises (free) and Ultamite Vocal Remover - UVR. In one case I did find that UVR gave me more favorable results for one of the tracks I was working one. Other than that one instance, I have concluded all these application, based on Spleeter code, are equivalent. None are Perfect if you really want to get the the note for note of any specific track. At the same time, all are miraculus at doing, what up till a decade ago was not even imaginable.
So I ran your "Fortunes" thru UVR - NO Bass track was extracted. The bass appeared in "the rest" with the rest. But are you telling me that no one has used the full paid version of SMP on this song?
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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But are you telling me that no one has used the full paid version of SMP on this song? Here is the first 32 bars illustrating all six stems. In regards to the bass, while it is not perfect, I am confident it is good enough for SMP (or melodyne) to render it to midi and than allow you to transfer the midi to Guitar Pro where it can be "cleaned up" and viewed as TAB. This is a quantum leap from a decade ago but if you can wait another decade it will separate each track perfectly and will use the stems to create a new song for you using the same notes and also send the notes to your bass so your bass will be playing along.  But don't worry if you are not there, it will do it without you.  ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28783&filename=Screenshot 2024-10-10 094623.png)
Last edited by DrDan; 10/10/24 06:59 AM.
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Out of curiosity, has anyone tried running one of these tools on the separated output of a previous run and typically does it improve, degrade or do nothing?
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
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Ahhh, the old saying, "you only get what you pay for" <ha ha> AudioTrack, I do have the paid version. What version do you have?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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How well does your version do on The Fortunes Song? I wonder how worthwhile the experiment would be, since this is a compressed file on YouTube. What would recordings from the 60s have had for full frequency response even to start with? Wheather Compressed/Not Compressed or 60s/No 60s I don't understand your question. It's a software test case and a relevant one.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I wonder how worthwhile the experiment would be, since this is a compressed file on YouTube. What would recordings from the 60s have had for full frequency response even to start with? Matt brings up an excellent point. Has anyone tried to use a full frequency song on any of those stem programs? I would suspect the end results would be different.
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So I ran your "Fortunes" thru UVR - NO Bass track was extracted. The bass appeared in "the rest" with the rest. But are you telling me that no one has used the full paid version of SMP on this song? Now here's a guy that's a "bird of a feather". Rather than just talk about the test case, he actually has done something physical with the test case. As mentioned above, my results with SMP did produce a bass stem, but muddled and more troubling, a gaping hole was produced. So my conclusion based on this datapoint is that SMP is superior to UVR on this test case . . . valuable info for sure. I'm certain the folks that produce SMP and UVR are well aware of their limitations and probably hard at work to produce improvements, as well as everyone else in this business space.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I'd be more suspicious of the effects of psychoacoustic compression than of frequency response.
Even 60s half-decent recordings almost certainly had above 10kHz, likely 16kHz.
Grundig's 3-3/4ips recorders from the 50s claimed ~10kHz.
The very old 78rpm discs were typically significantly poorer, but by the 50s vinyl was taking over.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Matt brings up an excellent point. Has anyone tried to use a full frequency song on any of those stem programs? I would suspect the end results would be different. I fail to see how Matt's point is excellent. Are we to limit ourselves to only "modern" uncompressed songs??? My answer is "No"; I want a full-fledged, full-bodied stem separator. I'm not asking for perfection, but I am asking for acceptable quality. A software team, somewhere will deliver on this. I know this because AI is powerful.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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This is a quantum leap from a decade ago Absolutely. Quantum leaps have been made and there is much more to come.but if you can wait another decade it will separate each track perfectly and will use the stems to create a new song for you using the same notes and also send the notes to your bass so your bass will be playing along. But don't worry if you are not there, it will do it without you. Some may have this as an end goal. But I'm going to modify a quote from Charlton Heston
"You can have my bass when you pry it from my cold dead hands"
No AI bot will being playing my bass.  This is about obtaining the tab so I can learn the bassline that the original artist created.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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My point is not intended to be excellent. Your test is reasonable. I am merely asking if the results might be different if we used a source file that didn’t start with the life already compressed out of it.
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Was watching an Intro to Studio One Version 7 video last night and it has a built in "stem separation" function that will extract individual parts from a stem. The discussion on this feature starts at about 9:00 on this video. The example includes a bass extraction. FWIW, I'm on Studio One Version 5.5 and don't plan to update...
Last edited by DC Ron; 10/10/24 09:54 AM.
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My point is not intended to be excellent. Your test is reasonable. I am merely asking if the results might be different if we used a source file that didn’t start with the life already compressed out of it. Matt, I have no idea if the results would be different or not. And I don't have the experience to know what to do if the results are different. I'm just searching for a full-bodied solution to this problem. If you can propose an uncompressed song to serve as Test File #2, perfect. You could extract the bass stem from the compressed file (Test File #1, supplied above) and an uncompressed file (Test File #2), with your version of SMP. I don't know how to identify an uncompressed file or how to measure its level of "compressionness". So that would be a rabbit hole for me. The majority of songs I work with are YouTube videos converted to MP3 format. I know this is not ideal from an audio quality standpoint but the number of songs available is literally staggering. But no matter what the results are, I (and thousands of others) will have to deal with compressed files in the real world. Are you proposing that an added step of uncompressing compressed files would be required? Is that even possible? If so, the nature of that would need to be established so to maintain apples-apples comparisons. PS> Shouldn't an AI trained on compressed files be able to handle compressed files?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Uncompressing a compressed file makes no improvement to the audio.
BIAB provides a utility to do exactly that with compressed WMA RealTracks, along with a caution not to expect any difference in audio quality. It did provide slightly faster operation in the early days of ReslTracks.
I asked about uncompressed files because I wonder if the absence of the original dynamic range, or the absence of the upper harmonics, make any difference in the algorithm’s ability to distinguish between, say, a guitar and a bass or a bass and a tuba.
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Was watching an Intro to Studio One Version 7 video last night and it has a built in "stem separation" function that will extract individual parts from a stem. The discussion on this feature starts at about 9:00 on this video. The example includes a bass extraction. FWIW, I'm on Studio One Version 5.5 and don't plan to update... Yes, I see that ver 7 has built-in stem separation plus a busload of other improvements. My experience with Presonus is that when releasing integer revisions they pack in a lot of goodies; I plan to upgrade. But even if Studio One ver 7 doesn't solve this problem, my engineering instincts tell me someone will crack it. And shortly, with no restrictions regarding compressed files or tubas in the mix. PS> Any tuba players out there, we love ya
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Maybe a CD with the old song originally recorded with audio equipment and originally released on vinyl and later re-released on CD as it is i.e. without any remix etc, could be seen as the "uncompressed" version of an old song (but I don't know).
It could be ripped as a WAV file with Windows Media Player (legacy).
To make a compressed MP3 version to use as comparison maybe one could use Audacity and select a suitable compression level (unless already available on YT
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