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#83273 - 08/21/10 11:59 AM [User Showcase] Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
On this project we used BIAB style "C_Shania - Contemporary Country Ballad" from SD #15 at 60 BPM in an attempt to create a feel similar to Shania's "Home Ain't Where His Heart Is Anymore" (which has an outrageous electric slide guitar break, BTW!) Since this style has no RealTracks or RealDrums associated with it, we exported it as a MIDI file into CUBASE 4 and ran the instrument tracks through a Yamaha DSP Factory, the DS2416 mixing card (...a PCI bus card encompassing all the technology of the Yamaha O2R digital mixing console) connected to a Yamaha SW1000XG sound card, and the separate drum tracks through the CUBASE DM4 VST drum plugin, utilizing real WAV files. If all this seems rather convoluted, it's the way we used to convert BIAB MIDI files in the pre-RT/RD era. But we really liked the feel of this particular style, and rather than look for another similar RT/RD style we just went with this one. The final piano track is so authentic sounding, a fellow musician, piano-music major asked who did the keyboard work. Really hated to tell him how we did it. That kind of says it all for BIAB's musicianship.

There are two distinct guitars and styles used in this song. The initial twin guitar intro and the guitar break utilize a Fender Subsonic Telecaster through a POD, with a definite "Twin Peaks" TV series vibe. (Check out "Twin Peaks intro" on YouTube to hear this haunting guitar sound.) The final guitar outro, utilizes a bluesy Allman Brothers vibe with overdriven twin Fender Power Telecasters run through a Johnson J Station set on "crunchy style" and then directly into the board, a Yamaha AW4416 lightpiped to the DAW.

Vocals harmonies are created via a TC Helicon Voice Prism (outboard gear) controlled by the BIAB bass MIDI track....so cool!

SONG LINK: Summertown

Enjoy,

Bob Buford, Producer
Summertown Recording Studios
Fort Collins, Colorado

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#83274 - 08/21/10 12:24 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7723
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7723
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
another home run for Summertown Studios! You're doing a great job of showcasing the potential of PGmusic products! Thanks for posting, Bob!

FWIW... even on styles that are all midi, you can substitute MIDI instruments with real tracks... or you can bring the song into RB and add additional Real tracks

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#83275 - 08/21/10 02:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Hi Pat...thanks for your nice comments. I actually did play around with bringing in some RT/RD files on this project but the concensus was in favor of the converted MIDI...go figure. I've become a HUGE fan of the RT/RD capabilities of BIAB. It's cut hours off our creation time and of course $$$$ off the client's bill. I can't believe how far this product has come in ten years I've owned it. Particularly since the inclusion of RT/RD. Rather amazing.

BTW...have you heard of any problems running RB in 64bit Windows? BIAB and the DAW plugin run fine, but RB crashes when trying to open a BIAB file. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob

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#83276 - 08/21/10 05:11 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7723
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7723
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Hi Pat...thanks for your nice comments. I actually did play around with bringing in some RT/RD files on this project but the concensus was in favor of the converted MIDI...go figure. I've become a HUGE fan of the RT/RD capabilities of BIAB. It's cut hours off our creation time and of course $$$$ off the client's bill. I can't believe how far this product has come in ten years I've owned it. Particularly since the inclusion of RT/RD. Rather amazing.

BTW...have you heard of any problems running RB in 64bit Windows? BIAB and the DAW plugin run fine, but RB crashes when trying to open a BIAB file. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob




It really *IS* an amazing product... it does more of what *I* want to do with music software than any other software I've tried (and I've pretty much tried them all).

Regarding your question about RB...I'm still using 2009.5, so my experience may not be indicative of what you might find in the latest version. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the forum about using the software on 64 bit operating systems, and you would learn more by tracking down those threads than you would from me. But I haven't had the problem you mention. My biggest "gotcha" was having to buy new audio-midi input devices because my old ones did not have drivers available for Win7x 64... but that isn't a PGMusic problem.

I really like all the music you've posted so far... I look forward to hearing more!

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#83277 - 08/21/10 05:48 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15339
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15339
Loc: Australia
Hi Bob,

Another spectacular song! I'm in awe of your ability to use BIAB to produce outstanding material. Thank you for posting your procedure. It really helps to understand the process.

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#83278 - 08/22/10 12:55 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Hey Noel...you're too kind. Maybe it sounds so good because you're hearing it upside down! I'm happy to share our methods and info. BIAB has made songwriting/recording fun and affordable again. My first original album in 1986 cost over $20k in a big analog studio, fully produced! I can do the same kind of project now, and with better quality actually, with BIAB and a few good studio cats for a fraction of that cost. Don't misunderstand, big studios have their place in the industry, but for singer/songwriters, for whom cost is a definate consideration, BIAB is cost effective and provides impressive results in the right hands.

We're all about helping budding artists and veterans discover new ways to get their material out to their fans with the smallest overhead possible. BIAB is a major player in making that happen. Next month we've invited the local Songwriter's Circle to meet at one of the local recording studios to play with some of the new recording gear. A big part of this "working meeting" will be using BIAB to create songs. I'm hoping they'll all download a free evaluation copy and check out the capabilities of BIAB for themselves. I think when we show them what they can do with it, they'll be hooked.

Thanks again for your nice comments.

Bob

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#83279 - 08/22/10 04:24 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 169
Loc: Bristol, UK
enjfb Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 169
Loc: Bristol, UK
Hi Bob,
A very good song which I enjoyed very much. I liked the lyrics and the performance - very professional.

Jim

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#83280 - 08/22/10 08:51 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: enjfb]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Hi Jim...thanks so much for your nice comments. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the song. Every now and then we get one right.

Bob

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#83281 - 08/22/10 11:54 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5999
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 5999
Loc: Chicago
Well for me it was the vocals . You had me with first couple lyrics. Very nice tone in that upper register.

Other than that, all was good. I actually picked up by guitar, found the key and played alone.

Good job.
_________________________
Dan
BIAB2019
BIAB User Map
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#83282 - 08/22/10 03:26 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Hey Dan....thanks for the accompaniment! I can use all the help I can get! I don't even know what key it's in...Bb? Great that you like the lyrics. This song turned out to be a self-fulfillng prophecy. I've often wondered about the effect of what we sing on our own lives and have discussed it with other songwriters and singers. I wonder if we write our own future sometime? Hmmmm. What do you think?

Thanks for your nice comments.

Bob

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#83283 - 08/22/10 05:02 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 193
Loc: Pine Bluff, Arkansas
retake Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 193
Loc: Pine Bluff, Arkansas
Bob, I love the music and vocals. I also love the production of the song. I have one question. I have tried for a long time to get a song to sound big and full, what do you use to make that happen? The song sounds huge.

Steve
_________________________
Steve

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#83284 - 08/22/10 08:17 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: retake]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

Bob, I love the music and vocals. I also love the production of the song. I have one question. I have tried for a long time to get a song to sound big and full, what do you use to make that happen? The song sounds huge.

Steve




Hey Steve...how are things down in Razorback country? I'm from La. originally and lived around Alexandria, LA most of life until moving to Colorado. Great folks (and food!) down there!

BTW, I've listened to some of your music and I think you're doing some fine work. Sometimes there are only a few small things that take your sound to the next level. I don't know what software and hardware you're using to create your music but regardless there are some things I can tell you that may be of use to you in getting a fatter sound. To begin with, the most important thing you can do is to give each track, whether instrument or vocal, it's own "sonic space" in the stereo spectrum. Basically that means "panning" all your tracks around the main vocal. There are really no big secrets to the way we produce a song. No special hardware or software, just an awareness of what's possible sonically. Basically we put the main vocal in the middle of the mix, with any harmonies close by, say no more than 10-20% off center. Next, bass and drums occupy a similar, but not exact, center position usually only 5% or less off center. After that come the backing instruments like fingerstyle and strummed guitars, or keyboards, steel, etc. I always like to pan these instruments to the far left and right of each other, as much as 75-100% left or right. While we have some pretty nice studio monitors, I find the best way to evaluate "sonic placement" is to use a decent set of accurate headphones to listen to the placement (Sony MDR 7506 work great). When you do this type of listening, see if you can hear each track distinctly in the mix even though it may be quiter than the main vocal. And finally, effects such as reverb and compression. Reverb is "musical spice" and needs to be used sparingly. We do not use reverb on bass or kick drum. We do apply it to most other sounds but in varying degrees. I prefer "plate reverb" to most other kinds because it sounds more like the old studio hardware "plates" you find in analog studios, and to me more natural. I put more reverb on vocals than on say, keyboard, or acoustic guitar, and a bit more on electric or steel guitar. But hardly ever enough where it's obvious. You'll hear what seems like a lot of reverb on the solo drums at the beginning of "Summertown" but notice how it seems to decrease after the song starts. We didn't reduce the reverb it's just blended in with the other sounds. I usually start the mixing process with the vocal volume normalized, that is, set at "0" DB, and add everything else below it. For example, add a guitar to the mix, and listen, add a keyboard, and listen, etc until you build the mix, giving each track it's own space. There are no hard and fast rules here. It's really just practice and listening...a LOT. Ear training. There's more to tell you, but this should keep you busy for a while. Email me directly or call if you'd like to discuss other aspects of recording, mixing, and mastering. I'd be happy to help you.

In the meantime get some headphones and listen to this song for some serious lessons in "sonic placement": Faithless Heart


Bob

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#83285 - 08/23/10 02:06 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Shockwave199 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Nice job! Very good song. This certainly features vocal, which is good. But I think the vocal is a bit too up front. The drums seem way in the back of the mix. Maybe that's the way you wanted to mix them? I think the drums need to 'come to the party' too. You'd be suprised at how much more dynamic and present this mix can be if the drums got some more TLC. I mean no disrespect when I say I hear a lot of this type of mixing. It's not bad or wrong per say. But it's a bit steeped in verb- and even that isn't a bad thing. But without careful attention, everything can get soupy in a hurry. And then what happens is you lose contrast within a mix. Like the importance of color contrast, so too is sound contrast. What I would do with this one is dry out everything and start again. The trem guitar is where I would focus and feature the verb a bit. It lends a nice atmosphere in this context. Aside from the vocal, that trem guitar is a feature. Then bring the drums up as they need to speak more. Then sit the vocals down a bit more. Then a wee bit of verb to taste on various other tracks. So, you have the wet trem guitar and some dryer, more present instruments. Contrast. It avoids a wash out and brings things up and off the speakers. It's been said a million times but it bears repeating- apply a verb until you think it's great, and then back it off some and usually you'll have it just about right.

Hope you don't mind. I'm trying to be constructive. And I only get this involved when I hear truly great potential in a song, and potential within the mix. This has it. A little more tweaking and you have not merely a demo, but a record.

Great work Bob!

Dan
_________________________
My songs [newest being BIAB work]- http://www.songramp.com/homepage.php?userid=1621

My YT Channel- http://www.youtube.com/user/dfizzbom

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#83286 - 08/23/10 09:07 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style *DELETED* [Re: Shockwave199]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
...

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#83287 - 08/23/10 08:23 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 193
Loc: Pine Bluff, Arkansas
retake Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 193
Loc: Pine Bluff, Arkansas
Thanks Bob. Things are going very well down here. Thanks for the tips. I will work on those.

Steve
_________________________
Steve

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#83288 - 08/24/10 09:52 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4988
Loc: California
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4988
Loc: California
Bob,

I really enjoyed this song, wow !! Your voice reminds me of John Berry, excellent !!

Fantastic all the way around. Top shelf stuff . . . .

Trax

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#83289 - 08/24/10 10:25 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Shockwave199 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 376
Loc: Long Island, NY
Hey Bob- I read your reply to my comment- now deleted. I'm only now getting a chance to write here. I know you didn't take offense buddy, as evidenced in your original reply- and none was meant. Like I said, I think the work is great. We're all out here trying put our best efforts forward. Hopefully this is a place where we can share ideas and learn too. And I know I need help too! I'm nobody special when it comes to mixing down my work. I struggle to this day. And I still learn each time I mix. Who doesn't!

Anyway, I just hope my comments were taken in the spirit they were meant. Take care.

Dan
_________________________
My songs [newest being BIAB work]- http://www.songramp.com/homepage.php?userid=1621

My YT Channel- http://www.youtube.com/user/dfizzbom

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#83290 - 08/26/10 10:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Shockwave199]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

Hey Bob- I read your reply to my comment- now deleted. I'm only now getting a chance to write here. I know you didn't take offense buddy, as evidenced in your original reply- and none was meant. Like I said, I think the work is great. We're all out here trying put our best efforts forward. Hopefully this is a place where we can share ideas and learn too. And I know I need help too! I'm nobody special when it comes to mixing down my work. I struggle to this day. And I still learn each time I mix. Who doesn't!

Anyway, I just hope my comments were taken in the spirit they were meant. Take care.

Dan




Hi Dan....no worries. We're good.

Bob

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#83291 - 08/26/10 07:20 PM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Quote:

Bob,

I really enjoyed this song, wow !! Your voice reminds me of John Berry, excellent !!

Fantastic all the way around. Top shelf stuff . . . .

Trax




Thanks Trax....I hate to admit this....but...I didn't know who John Berry was. It's hard to keep up sometimes. Anyway I went out to YouTube and listened to "Your Love Amazes Me." Wow! That's quiet a compliment. Now I have to go practice so I can live up to the comparison. Haha.

Thank you again. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Bob

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#83292 - 08/27/10 11:03 AM [User Showcase] Re: Orig. Song "Summertown" w/ BIAB "C-Shania" style [Re: Buford]
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 589
Loc: uk
tributeman Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 589
Loc: uk
Hi,As a citizen from the UK its hard for us songwriter/singers to get that American country vocal which really comes across here especially with Faithless Heart.I agree with Shockwave about the drums being to far back in the mix also I feel there is just a bit to much overall reverb.But this is all about "preference" like the old saying "One mans meat is another mans poison.You have talent and write really well thought out lyrics something I find really hard to master when writing my songs.Cheers Frankie
_________________________
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tacam DP-24 DAW
Samson Resolv NF monitors
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