PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist Help! How Does a Soloist RealTrack Work?

I recently found this Soloist RealTrack #3198 very good, and I want to listen to the track and learn about the guitar arrangement.

However, I can't. If I load this track to BiaB, BiaB will chop the track into pieces, then re-assemble the pieces into a new track, which sounds very inconsistent and unpleasant.

In order to preserve the consistency, I go to the folder of this Soloist RealTrack, which contains the relevant wma audio files, and drag the wma file directly to the DAW.

C:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Acoustic, Soloist PopBalladBrent Ev 065

Then, I need to create a backing track for the solo, but I don't know the chord progression.

Where do I find the "Chord Chart" that contains the chord progression information?

Shouldn't the creation of a RealTrack similar to a User Track?

First, PG Music staff creates a chord progression, then using this chord progression to create a backing track, then Brent Mason plays a solo based on this backing track, and finally the chord progression file and the audio recording of the solo are saved together, as a RealTrack.

In a User Track, the chord progression information is saved into a SGU file, and this SGU file is called "Chord Chart".

For each RealTrack, BiaB needs to read the information in this "Chord Chart", in order to perform the "chopping and stitching" task, based on a user's chord input.

If BiaB can read it, how can a user find and read it?

"Shouldn't the creation of a RealTrack similar to a User Track?"
I think it is, (there also shots and holds which are not implemented in U.Tracks) and there are several different templates / chord charts for User Tracks. Also, a player could of done several takes. Some changes will sound more natural than others. Some are more interesting than others.

Maybe irrelevant to you, but did you try using Partial Regeneration on the track? You can get pretty close to natural sounding transitions.

I’m not sure we can answer. I asked years ago for a template to record myself playing over jazz chords to make a user track but I didn’t get anywhere with the process.

https://www.pgmusic.com/usertracks1.htm

"You can pick and choose which ones you want to record, and this added material will give your style things like:

song endings
additional material for greater diversity in your style
additional common chords like sus, dim
additional jazzy chords like maj7, m7, m7b5, etc.
additional less common chords like 7b9, 13, mmaj7, etc.
You can also create your OWN chord progressions to add to your UserTracks style! Just make your own custom progression in Band-in-a-Box®, record along with that chord progression, and save the .sgu+.wav in the same folder as this file, and Band-in-a-Box® will automatically add that material to the UserTrack when it is used."

Well, for a standard 8 bars solo, if I sit there partial regen back and forth for three hours, yes, I can eventually get a decent consistent solo.

In my situation, I just simply want to listen to Brent Mason, and I can't even do that.

I suspect, in my picture, the .bt1 files, are indeed the "chord chart". I just need a software/code/script to open the file and see inside.

Hope PG staff can provide a solution.

"three hours" ? Doesn't take that long You might get it right from the first try. You can partial generate small sections (~1/4 of a bar) on the fly using Track View.

Sorry, can't help you with a charts.

Exactly! BiaB needs the .sgu file in order to "navigate and manipulate" the user recorded .wav file. That's how UserTrack works.

Now, when it comes to the officially recorded wma files, all of a sudden, the "referencing sgu" are all missing.

It must be somewhere, otherwise BiaB won't work.

I can tell you a way to do it but I will have to mention that terrible REAPER and I might get jumped on and have to leave the forum again for another 6 months
In the song setting dialog there is "Avoid transpositions in RealTracks".
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/48388/Import-frozen-SGU-MGU-realtracks-drums-tracks-GUI.zip

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/47372/ReaTrak-amagalma_Write-project-markers-or-regions-as-media-cues-to-selected-items-active-takes-source-files.zip

make a copy backup of your wav files in the RealTrack folder and store elsewhere
if you don't have wav files just batch convert the folder wma > wav
create a chord track in Biab in a key
generate up the soloist guitar track
freeze track and save
Run Import-frozen-SGU-MGU... script in Reaper and open the saved frozen SGU
load the chords into Reaper, see link below post #804821 Working In Biab & Reaper Simultaneously and Instantly
load the tracks
insert the track
you can insert a cue into the wav file by placing cursor where the chord occurs with ReaTrak-amagalma_Write-project-markers-or-regions..
from Action list run View: Toggle show media cues in items
Biab will try not to transpose so look for transpose amount at the top of the Reaper items, allow for this when add chord names as cues in the wav file.

The .bt1 are just beat files like reapeaks in Reaper. The info is in the XT2 ST2 in C:\bb\Soloists.

If I go and have a break again just ask Rustyspoon or AudioTrack as they will be very helpful with Reaper.

<<In my situation, I just simply want to listen to Brent Mason, and I can't even do that.>>

Sure you can.

A search for for Styles that contain RT@3198 results in six styles. Each of these Styles has a complete demo song with a chord progression, soloist, and backing tracks.
Using the demo's will have a decent consistent solo by Brent Mason playing a solo with this RT in each appropriate Style. Opening the Guitar Window or Notation with tabs to follow along and see how Brent Mason plays the solo.

I suspect that .ST2 and .XT2 files in \bb\soloists contain information that drives the chord map for the dicing and splicing of the Realtracks. I'm guessing that PG Music keep this information restricted to protect their product and safeguard their intellectual property.

musocity,
"mirror mirror on the wall, who is the smartest dude of all" ?

you are nice, until you are not.

Musocity,

I'm willing to go down this path to install Reaper, load your scripts, create frozen sgu, and extract info from temp.txt.

Before I dive in, one question though: Does it work with soloist type of RealTracks?

Last time, back in August 2023, when we talked about this, you did mention, for rhythm type of RT, you get the chord progression of the entire track, but for soloist type of RT, you only get a key, no chord info.

Is it still true with your new method?

For chord/rhythm type of RT, it's polyphonic, so that I can simply use DAW's chord detection function to figure out the chord. No need for Reaper.

For soloist type of RT, because it's recorded in monophonic, DAW's chord dectection function will not work. But it takes me 5 seconds to figure out the key of the track by ear.

It is the chord info of a soloist type of RT I need to figure out.

Why don't you go to the folder I mentioned, pick any wma file in that folder, and try it with your method, and see if you can extract the chord info for that entire track.

Not really.

I tested on the demo songs before I posted this thread, and they were pretty bad.

No tracks were frozen, and the soloist RT was "spliced and glued" by BiaB, generating a randomized result each time.

The solo in the demo song has no better consistency than using my own chord progression.

I suggest you go to the RealTrack picker, select the RT #3198, then preview the track. There are two preview mode: Band and Solo.

The Solo preview is a part of the original recording without BiaB's manipulation. The Band preview is the same solo plus the backing of the original chord progression Brent Mason played on.

You will find the RealTrack previews are ten times better than the RealTrack itself.

Peter Gannon is walking towards the wrong direction.

Of all RealTracks, 2/3 of them are chord/rhythm based RTs, of which the chords can be easily detected by a DAW. There is nothing Peter can safeguard here.

About 1/3 of the RTs are melody/solo based, and because of its monophonic nature, a DAW's chord detection feature does not work.

If Peter had known some music theory, he would realize the fact that solo based RTs do not work the same way as the rhythm based RTs.

Rhythm based RTs are easy, they are all "clean cut" by the bar line and beat line. BiaB can generate a perfect rhythm track.

Soloist RTs, on the other hand, will not work this way. If you listen to the wma, Brent Mason is playing cross bar line notes all the time, there is no "clean cut". When BiaB "splice and glue" the solo, it ruins the context, big time. There are also anacrusis notes, lead-in notes, and pick-up notes, in the original recording, being completely mismatched by BiaB's splicing algorithm.

If Peter Gannon really wants to protect his software, shouldn't he be protecting the audio files rather than the chord charts?

By making the chord charts impossible to open and read, Peter is ruining the software's solo quality on the legit user base.

"Then, I need to create a backing track for the solo, but I don't know the chord progression.

Where do I find the "Chord Chart" that contains the chord progression information?

Why don't you go to the folder I mentioned, pick any wma file in that folder, and try it with your method, and see if you can extract the chord info for that entire track."

That method will give you the chords it's played over
\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Acoustic, Soloist PopBalladBrent Ev 065\ag5071.wav
you will end up with a file that has all the chords displayed in it as cue points
you can then create your own solo to be played over a progression by coping sections from that source track.
You also have Extensions > Region Playlist that is a quick way to arrange sections and play smoothly from one section to another.

Just tell me what year you want me to be compatible with, 2009-2010, 2011-2012....?

I'm nice until I talk about Reaper.

Just don't give me a hard time all the time because I mention Reaper. Why have you got features in Biab that you use that come from me showing examples using Reaper ?
You have no issue using the Midi Chord track with virtual instruments, I didn't see you complain all the time about that when I posted.


Surely it must eventually come to light, surely.

An unnecessary, incredibly subjective and derogatory comment. Please refrain.

In addition, it's quite untrue. Peter Gannon has an excellent knowledge of music theory. Yes, please consider your words more carefully.

musocity, you are an interesting character. By helping someone or imagining that you are helping someone you think you
are entitled to insult people left and right?

I mentioned this publicly on several occasions, but if it will make you blush, here we go again: I thank you for showing me how to use Chord Track with plugins a few years ago.

Having said that, I don't appreciate your unjustified sarcasm toward me or AudioTrack.

You have to have debate for things to get better, just disagreeing with ideas put forth won't help, come up with an alternative solution/idea.
You don't want to settle back in, and just take what is given without discussion. Protectionism won't allow the apps to get better.
I say a lot of things that may offend some but you now have better apps through all that, I do it for one reason only, because I love the PG apps, I would go out of my way to help anyone here, I have done that so many times, above and beyond. So you see how I go off when users knock things without understanding or coming up with a better solution and a thorough investigation.
I come up with so many ideas through Reaper, but users hate to hear that word and don't realize they have what they have now because of it.
RDS = Reaper Derangement Syndrome, this blocks clear and rational thinking.

Just to state the obvious because it seems to have been overlooked... It is Peter Gannon's comprehensive understanding of music that has taken BIAB from his inventing of it to the amazing product that it is today. His knowledge in the theory and behaviour of music is very, very sound. Your comment is not justified.

WTF DrDan uses Reaper !
Why run Reaper down and not virtual instruments on midi chord track, it would be a total different story if you saw the posts and started using Reaper, how is it any different ? Reaper is Evil and Midi Chord Track with Virtual Instruments is Godly ?

This thread is just way too bizarre for me...

Guys! There are some misunderstandings going on here!

What I meant was: Peter Gannon is a person who knows music theory, and he definitely has realized the splicing problem on Soloist tracks. If it's his idea to protect the ST2/XT2 mapping files from legit user base, then I would disagree with him.

Let's be honest, one of my biggest complaints last year, was that Peter knows too much music theory, and he puts hundreds of music related options and settings in one software, makes it intimidating for the young people.

I would never say Peter doesn't know music theory, because I don't believe it either.

I made a clarification in this post. Please read it.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=833430#Post833430

This thread is about finding a solution on technical issues. It never meant to be a post criticizing people for lack of knowledge.

This will let you manually enter each chord:
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/47371/ReaTrak-insert-media-cue-to-selected-item-active-take-wav-source-file.zip

Leave a blank name to remove cue at cursor. You can set an action key to run the script.
They will be written permanently in the wav file and show in Reaper each time you load the wav.









Run Action > Theme development: Show theme tweak/configuration window

search for media item label font to change cues font, search for marker to change color.

You can do this all in the Plugin as I noticed there is Avoid Transpositions in the Song Settings:

Yes, that's the point I was hoping to make. It's very unreasonable to make derogatory comments, without ever knowing the skills and qualifications of the person that is being specifically identified. Very poor indeed.

Musocity, let me say this.

If Peter Gannon is the founder of a nation, then you are a finder of a state.

When a power user like me in this forum reaches the bottleneck, instead of waiting five years for a software update, people can always expect you to "find" a workaround, to have their problems solved in five days.

I have two requests for you.

1. Consider renaming your scripts to shorter names, with two or three words only. It helps the users.

Imagine if Peter Gannon name his software to:

"Band-in-a-chord-sheet-generates-audio-from-prerecorded-realtracks.exe"

How confusing users would be, everytime they download, install, and run this software?

2. Image is your best friend. Everytime when you posted something with a GIF attached, it confused the heck outta me.

Your last post, on manual cueing, with only texts and still images, worked so well, and I was able to fully understand what you wanted to deliver.

I hope you will write a new post, in the same fashion, on how auto cueing and reverse engineering work.

This

On the planet earth, why have I got to be the only one that scripts things up for Biab/Plugin/Reaper ??
Most users in the Reaper forum can script things, so it isn't hard to learn.
There are other guys here that do programming for a living like AudioTrack, then we would have to wait years for things to be implemented, anyone can learn Lua or AHK scripting compared with other complex programming languages.

Before you install the script just rename to whatever you like.
If you have https://reapack.com/ installed most scripts have a unique name as there are thousands of them and looking through the list you see what it does.

You can create Custom Actions and add a series of scripts and actions:

If I select Edit Action/Script I can see the programming, I can get the ID of action or script by right click. By looking at how scripts work you learn how to make your own, you can copy sections out of other scripts to make your own.

Here are the API used to create scripts, the C++ ones are used by the JUCE BB Plugin to integrate Reaper
https://www.extremraym.com/cloud/reascript-doc/

In the script it's just getting the current toggle state, and if it's off then turn it on:

This will change the source RealTrack/Drum file type that you have already generate up, keeping the same sections so if you have wma you can change to FLAC WAV etc...
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/47910/Change-selected-realtrack-source-file-type.zip

These will change from DI<>FX keeping all the same sections
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/47911/Change-selected-realtrack-to-direct-input-to-fx.zip

Musocity,

In your last post:

Are you able to write cue markers to a FLAC file?

Also, if ag5077 is the file you want to add cues, your sgu track is full of other useless files such as 5092, 5095, etc, taking up a lot of spaces, causing an efficiency problem of ag5077.

What if you Ctrl+X and cut all ag files out, leaving only ag5077 inside the RealTrack folder?

When you use BiaB to generate a soloist track, is it going to:

a) break the software, causing errors.

b) bingo! BiaB only generates a track only from ag5077, and nothing else.

Which one?

Musocity,

Let's talk about this "hiding" method.

First, you move everything out of the RT folder, except for ag5077.wav.

Then in BiaB, you generate a solo track, freeze it.

Then, you turn on Audio Edit Window in BiaB, you will see many parts of the audio are empty gaps.

You select these gaps, use Alt+F8, to regen a few times, until you can see the wavform.

You do this to fill all the empty gaps in the audio. Then save the sgu.

Load it to Reaper, and do your cueing.

This will be much more efficient, than your previous method.

Try it, and let me know how it goes.

The data is generated up using ST2 XT2 and references the wav/wma files.
If you remove the other wma and wav from the folder and back them up elsewhere it will just have empty items in Reaper with missing media
and only load the media that is there. Biab may or may not get an error, you can just try.
You can only write cue points into wav files, once done in wav you can then write them in flac as take markers but these are not stored in the flac file only in Reaper. You can create a midi file of the same name with chord markers that can be stored in the RealTrack folder, if you then load both files into reaper the midi markers can be transferred into the flac/wma file as take markers. Both cue points or midi markers can be copied from an item as Regions or Markers.

Biab will still use all the agxxx files to regen sections. You just need to keep generating until Biab has used all the sections from ag5077
You can use Melodyne to convert the ag5077 to midi then put in Rapidcomposer to see what riffs fit what chords.

It's time to put an end to this drama.

1. Peter Gannon
Peter simply doesn't want to share ST2/XT2 info with his users.

There is no expectation for him to come up with anything in the future.

2. Musocity
Musocity has a legit method of extracting ST2/XT2 info from generated audio, but only limited to generated audio.

Using his method involves endless times of regeneration, which is time consuming and impractical.

3. MusicVillain
MusicVillain comes up with his own solution. However, his solution requires a user with high level skills in music theories.

First, listen to the Soloist RealTrack in a DAW, identify non-diatonic notes being played, and cut off the bars contain these notes. This step requires in-depth musical skills.

Then, use diatonic chords to fit the cut/trimmed RealTrack, take some guess work, making minor changes on the chords if necessary, and it will work.

Conclusion
Band-in-a-Box is the war to end all wars. It has the best guitar soloist tracks among all VST soundbanks in the production industry. Nothing ever comes close.

It is an insult to Brent Mason's reputation, when BiaB splices his top notch recordings into random pieces, and then re-join the pieces into a mediocre solo track.

I hope this thread can still be found on the internet, after many years from today, when the young generation users want to make BiaB great again.

If there is a Chord Chart populated with chords, BIAB does not "generate a randomized result each time." The BIAB algorithm reads ahead the user information input onto the Chord Chart and searches and selects specific audio snippets from the appropriate RealTrack folder and file.

Demos may have programming elements input to the algorithm that produce more complexity and consistency than what's produced by only entering a chord progression.

I did select and preview the RT#3198, both band and solo. I also analyzed the chord progression, key signature and created a tempo map of the Band wma file. The solo seems be a part of the original recording that is isolated from the original band recording. The demo was likely recorded using a multi track device or DAW.

I don't think the RealTrack demo to be a complete performance recording but is in reality, a BIAB generation. There are several reasons why I think this.

a) It's illogical for this 16 bar recording to be a performace for a RealTrack because PG Music would likely include that information. All PG Music marketing and every demo, lessons and songs, or tutorials either clearly state a track as a Performance or otherwise state the demo/song/lesson/tutorial is a BIAB generation.

b) A 16 bar song could be made with two 8 bar phrases with a single splice.

c) BIAB's algorithim accesses many tools and features that activates various actions to make track generations more complex, seamless and consistent than simply entering chords and hitting play.

d) Some of these tools and features are MultiStyles, RT#1152-Silence, The RealTrack Medley Maker, Using multiple RT's by a single artist playing the same instrument with the same settings.

e)By reading ahead, the algorithm can select specific phrases recorded and saved in the wma files in the RealTracks folders for intros, outros, and also know to create fade-in, fade-out, and crossfade as pre-generation actions rather than post generation selections manually set by users using Bar Settings. The difference between the audio material selections insure smooth transitions. Reading ahead, the same logic applies with MutliStyles and the Chord Chart for changes to styles, instruments, key signatures, tempo.

There is no indication RT#3198 solo and band demos are performance files rather than a normal demo file created the same as every other demo.

Note the screen shot from a YouTube BiAB RealTracks Demo that all the demo songs are generated RealTracks, not Performances.

Note the Soloist Lesson by Brent Mason indicates his Solo Track is an Artist Performance Track.

"It is an insult to Brent Mason's reputation, when BiaB splices his top notch recordings into random pieces, and then re-join the pieces into a mediocre solo track."
If you have "Avoid Transpositions" options could you also have "Use Original Played Riffs" rather than splicing and joining ? but same as avoid transpose you won't get as much unique material.

So if you had the SGU for the original recording you will be able to create the solos you want over a chord progression ?
wouldn't you have to splice it up same as Biab is doing ?

I'm not a musician, I'm a technician so I can only do so much. That's why I use RapidComposer, I can get the notation from the RealChart and see what chord, scale or passing notes it fits too.

The XT2 ST2s probably have it all mapped out what sections/riffs can be played over what.

If you look through the Artist Performance Tracks you should have Brent or other soloist playing over the original chord progression.

With Reaper you have scripting that can do all this how you want, if you ask there you might find a script writer with musical knowledge:
ReaScript, JSFX, REAPER Plug-in Extensions, Developer Forum
Expanding REAPER via ReaScripts (EEL2/Lua/Python scripts), JSFX (REAPER's built-in audio processors), and native C/C++ extensions. Also other aspects development-related.

They seem to be long riffs played over a progression and not that spliced up, if you go into it a bit deeper with pics of what you want to do, that I have to do I might get some more ideas:

There are plenty in here:
bb\Songs and Lessons\Artist Performance Sets\Artist Performance Set 4 - Brent Mason Country Master

I suppose this is not what you want either, green = chord notes, blue = scale notes, red = passing or out:

Charlie Fogle, you are wrong about this.

I can confirm, all soloist RealTrack demos, are indeed, performance recording tracks. None of them are BiaB generation tracks.

Why? Because PG Music wants to give users the best demo experience, so the users can be convinced. After the demo, when it comes to track generation, you are on your own.


Let me prove this to you.

First, listen to the RealTrack demo #1167: "Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockBalladBrent Ev 065".

Second, go to your #1167's RealTrack folder.

C:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockBalladBrent Ev 065

Third, listen to the audio file, eg4800.wma.

You will realize, the demo and the recording track, are exactly the same.

In other words, the reason demo audio sounds so good and consistent, is because, there was absolutely no splicing and gluing happened, it is a performance track straight out of the box.

The original eg4800 was recorded in a total 80 bars, 32+32+16+ending, based on a 32 bars chord sheet repeated 2.5 times.

The demo song of #1167, was just the first 16 bars of eg4800, plus the ending.

Hope you understand what I am talking about here.

Trust me, I have already explored the folders of "Artist Performance Sets", as well as the folders of "Instrumental Studies", a long time ago.

Yes, there are some guitar solos with chord sheets in these folders. However, comparing to the amount of Soloist tracks in the RealTrack folder, it is like comparing a swimming pool to an ocean.

Musocity,

I don't think you understand how Band-in-a-Box works.

Let me explain to you, why Soloist generation sucks.

For the sake of argument, let's say, Brend Mason was given a simple chord sheet of "C - Am - F - G", and he played his guitar over this chord progression, repeated many times, and finally the recording became a RealTrack.

So, internally, BiaB maps this RealTrack like this:

Bar 1 = C
Bar 2 = Am
Bar 3 = F
Bar 4 = G

Bar 5 = C
Bar 6 = Am
Bar 7 = F
Bar 8 = G

Bar 9 = C
Bar 10 = Am
Bar 11 = F
Bar 12 = G

Bar 13 = C
Bar 14 = Am
Bar 15 = F
Bar 16 = G

So on and so forth.

Now, when a user wants to generate a Soloist track. Let's say, the user wants a track of a simple chord progression "C - F - G - C".

Here comes the problem: BiaB will splice the original recording into pieces, and then randomly glue the pieces together, to make a track.

For example, the first bar of BiaB generation, it is a C chord, and the generated audio could come from bar 1, or bar 5, or bar 9, or bar 13, of the original recording.

Similarly, the second bar is an F chord, and the generated audio could come from bar 3, or bar 7, or bar 11, or bar 15, of the original recording.

That's why the randomly glued track will lose the logic of musicality, and sounds very bad.

How does "Avoid Transposition" option work?

The third bar of user desired track, is a G chord. If "Avoid Transposition" is turned on, BiaB will randomly pick an audio from either bar 4, or bar 8, or bar 12, or bar 16, of the original recording.

However, if "Avoid Transposition" is not turned on, things will get messier. In addition to bar 4, 8, 12, 16, BiaB will also randomly pick from bar 3, 7, 11, 15, and since these bars were not recorded in G, but in F, BiaB will then apply the pitch changing to the recording of that particular bar, transpose the audio 2 semitones up, from F to G, to fit the G chord.

Doesn't matter what you do, you will always end up getting a bar randomly picked by BiaB.

It's obvious it's doing all that, Brent is not inside the application. I did it the same way with Reaper scripts in ReaTrak.
So what is the solution to get better solos ? do we need to hire Brent for our tracks ? can we map them out and choose manually what riff we want where ?
If it's not working then a better way has to be put forward.
You can create up a UserTrack from them and set it to play the whole selected riff over your chords but you will get the same thing a lot of times that won't be unique for everyone.
I just think RapidComposer is more flexible as it will fit anything over the current chord/scale, unless Biab has ARA and Melodyne what can you do ?
"and professional guitarist."
At the moment it seems like the only way is to play it yourself or hire someone.

<< Here comes the problem: BiaB will splice the original recording into pieces, and then randomly glue the pieces together, to make a track. >>

This is incorrect, as is your demonstration how BIAB internally maps a RealTrack. Secondly, PG Music stated years ago in response to issues posted in the Forum, the algorithm 'reads ahead' and selects forthcoming audio based on many factors such as endings, intros, instrument changes, key changes, tempo changes, fade in's, fade out's, crossfades, style changes and more. The algorithm does not randomly select and glue pieces. More likely, the user is failing to access and utilize many of the advanced features, tools, and processes used to properly prompt the algorithm to provide the best and desired results. Most of these are unique to the Flagship BIAB program.

Your simple demonstration shows recordings of single bar lengths. This is not the case and as a demonstration, it's misleading. Regardless if the audio is chords, chord progressions, riffs or soloist - Recordings phrases of varying lengths are carefully designed by PG Music to be played in their proprietary algorithm in BIAB flagship program. The BIAB algorithm is far more advanced, complex with more functions than what's featured in the lite versions offered in RealBand or the Plug-ins.

You are correct that the demo is playing a single solo performance. It's not an Artist Performance File but rather a phrase that the BIAB has directed to be played over an SGU Chord Sheet as at least two selections - not single bar recordings. The demo plays about 1:13 minutes and like you say, is taken from the RT1167 folder of recordings. I agree with you that Brent Mason is likely playing to a Chord template prepared by PG Music for that particular solo. However, it's only a portion of the eg4800 RealTrack that plays for more than five minutes. That's why it isn't an Artist Performance File.

Demos are not advertised or marketed as Artist Performance Files which are separately marketed to be performance files. With this solo being extracted from a RT Folder and used in an SGU file the same as all other RealTracks are used, the solo is correctly marketed as can be seen where they are described in demo videos as entering chords, picking a style and hitting play. In this case, the algorithm was directed to select this specific range of audio recording from the RT1167 Folder in its full length 1:13 minutes.

Another point of interest is that despite your impression this was a single performance, there was splicing and gluing happening, it is not by definition, a performance track straight out of the box. It is a phrase from a RealTrack folder. Notice in the Screenshot I attached, the end of the demo solo is located several minutes of recording down the audio file.

None of the six demo songs and SGU files of RT1167 replicate this exact phrasing of the instrument demo which is further evidence this isn't an Artist Performance File. It is important to note in order to correctly understand the PG Music RealTrack demos indicate that what the listener is hearing was generated by inputting chords, tempo key, style and sometimes advance tools, or processes to prompt the algorithm to create more complex arrangements or solos. It's clear the performances in all demos are specially programmed and not Artist Performance Files.

Charlie, you are best to generate up some Brent soloist examples using Biab's unique Al Gore Rhythms as MV is looking for good professional solos.

"The BIAB algorithm is far more advanced, complex with more functions than what's featured in the lite versions offered in RealBand or the Plug-ins."
So bbw is different to bbw4 bbw2 ? they are all 74meg

<< So bbw is different to bbw4 bbw2 ? >>

Even though they are all 74 megs, it seems they are different.

Open this MultiStyle in BIAB and as shown in the screenshot below, it opens with 16 sub-styles.
Open that same SGU file in RealBand and in the screenshot below, it opens with only two Sub-styles.
EDIT: Open that same SGU file in Standalone Plug-in and it opens with only two Sub-styles. (I just tried it and that's the result I got)

I don't know if the bbwxxx files are the algorithm or not, you seem to think they are and that's fine, but as I stated and demonstrate below in the screenshots, the various programs don't share the same algorithm. BIAB algorithm is far more advanced, complex with more functions than what's featured in the lite versions offered in RealBand or the Plug-ins.

They are actually all slightly different sizes:

-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 45614240 Oct 5 2020 bbw2_32.exe
-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 76498392 Dec 2 15:10 bbw2_64.exe
-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 15879712 Nov 29 2019 bbw3.exe
-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 51861960 Aug 30 15:22 bbw4_32.exe
-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 76496712 Dec 2 15:10 bbw4_64.exe
-rwxrwx---+ 1 Administrators None 76584408 Dec 12 17:27 bbw64.exe

All the bbw's are the same and have same Al Gore functions Plugin and RealBand can call on all of these if made to do so.
It doesn't generate up tracks using a different Al Gore Rhythm it's the same function that's called on.
That's why the bbw4 version is now 1124 as it used the flac and was just changed for that fix of not using flac.
They can be made to cal on every Biab function but we certainly don't want that, it's just the basic generate Al Gore Rhythm code that needs to be moved over to the C++ JUCE Plugin, they had to do this with Mac in the first place also to get the Mac version but spending 6 months to move the new version features/functions code over to Mac each year is crazy. The Mac version of the Plugin is ready now because of the crossplatform JUCE code used but it has to wait 6 months for the backend bbw4.app to get the new code added. Isn't that a good reason to move the generate code to JUCE ?
Once it has the code in the Plugin and a Track Edit you will have instant generate in any DAW with non destructive editing, you won't have to wait for wav files to be rendered to drop in. The current 2024 bbw4.app would probably work with the new 2025 Mac JUCE Plugin except for the flac on Mac right now but Mac users will still need to wait for 6 months.

That's why I asked, generate up and upload some sample Brent solos for MV either mp3 or frozen SGU so he will see what you say the flagship Al Gore can do.

<< It doesn't generate up tracks using a different Al Gore Rhythm it's the same function that's called on. >>

That's incorrect. Open RealBand and generate a track. Highlight a section of track and attempt to replace that section with RT-1152 and see if the section is replaced with silence. It isn't replaced when I attempt it here. RB and the Plug-in don't recognized MultiStyles, RT-silence and many other features and tools of the main program. I'm sure that's intentional when you think about it. It's giving users raw track audio data they can manipulate themselves in a DAW. Remember, DAWs are post audio generation editors. BIAB generates audio.

BBWs may all be the same but the bottom line is you, MusicVillian nor anyone else can produce the same complexity arrangements reading RealTrack folder wma files or reading them direct into Reaper with scripts Reading a wma file direct bypasses 100% of BIAB's internal processing and manipulation of those wma files whether it's done by bbw or not. There's something in BIAB no other program has and ripping audio from the program doesn't capture it. BIAB can combine Part Markers, Bar Settings, the RealTrack Medley Maker, Song Form, and MultiStyles and activate all of them across a single measure. Those actions used together are producing audio that is literally impossible to generate in any other existing software with audio that functions exactly like a RealTrack. It can only be done manually editing and comping multiple tracks which takes far longer than hitting the play button.

What MV thinks is a performance track is no different from a audio snippet playing a G to F progression other than the length of the audio clip. Look at the pictures above. It's 1:13 minutes of audio clip from a RealTrack wma file. PG Music generated the same as they generate all demos by setting up the BIAB Chord Sheet to play a backing band along with the solo clip.

<< That's why I asked, generate up and upload some sample Brent solos for MV either mp3 or frozen SGU so he will see what you say the flagship Al Gore can do.>>
That's what demos do. Learn how to use BIAB and it's advanced tools, features, and processes and you can make tracks and songs that sound just like theirs.

"RT-1152 and see if the section is replaced with silence."
that's a good idea generate up an empty wav file to create an empty space on the DAW track ?
"BBWs may all be the same but the bottom line is you, MusicVillian nor anyone else can produce the same complexity arrangements reading RealTrack folder wma files or reading them direct into Reaper with scripts Reading a wma file direct.."
So no one else on planet earth will ever be able write an Al Gore Rhythm to put wma files musically into Reaper ? Elon can send rockets to Mars but he couldn't do it, Apple have Logic with AI instruments and they couldn't do it.
MV wanted a way to get the chords from the source files, I showed him that but he did not want to spend the time.
If I want to work something out I spend the time with it, come up with with ways to automate things, this all takes time that I have put into it over the years, that's why we have so many features in Biab and a Plugin. I do it for all programs Win & Mac, I don't do it all for "ME".

Charlie, how long have I been at if for ? why do you have so many great features and functions in Biab now ?
Why do you have a Plugin ?
Why does the Plugin now generate instantly and plays direct.
Why do you have a script that can instantly import frozen multistyle into Reaper ?
Why do you have a script for Reaper that will generate up RealDrums ?
Why have I been here for so long looking at ways to improve PG products ?
Where did I say forget about PG use Reaper ?
The whole idea of Reaper is that it integrates with Biab/Plugin, this is a good thing isn't it ? NO other DAW can do this.
Doing this I have a 1000 times more flexibility and control than you can ever have in Biab alone, again, is this a good thing ?
And you are still trying to convince me I don't need anything else but Biab ? all that I've done is not worth it and should be flushed, all the functions in Biab, the BB Plugin, Live Arranger, script integration with Reaper all down the toilet ?

Should all this be a threat to you or PG ?
Was Biab 2009 was fine in your eyes ? should I have gone protectionism to keep it in the 90's ?
Tell me why you think I'm here all this time.

<< So no one else on planet earth will ever be able write an Al Gore Rhythm to put wma files musically into Reaper ? >>

Nope. They'll have to invent their own algorithm and then win a lawsuit against PG Music.

Don't get all dusted about this. You're actually saying the point you're missing.

No DAW generates music. DAWs are post-generation. DAWs need BIAB more than BIAB needs DAWs. DAWs begin with music input into them whether midi or audio. BIAB generates music.

<< "RT-1152 and see if the section is replaced with silence."
that's a good idea generate up an empty wav file to create an empty space on the DAW track ? >>

Exactly. DAWs don't need RT1152 Silence so that RT is ignored in RB and the Plug-in. The audio in the RT folders are at the most basic level of audio production residing in BIAB.

The point being, BIAB has many tools, features and processes like RT1152 to create more complex and sophisticated musical arrangements than people who don't use those tools, features and processes generate when they don't use them. BIAB uses unique tools to generate many things that users choose to export raw or simple arrangements in order to manually construct their music rather than have BIAB automatically generate a sophisticated, complex arrangement.

You choose to develop scripts and programs to assist people integrate BIAB tracks into their DAWs. You help a lot of people that use DAWs.

I'm very familiar with DAWs and have multiple DAWs as well as hardware digital multi track recorders. I choose to work completely in BIAB for nearly every project. I don't encourage anyone to adopt this workflow or discourage anyone from using their preferred way of using BIAB.

<< Was Biab 2009 was fine in your eyes ? >>

I first purchased BIAB in 2013 and yes, it was fine. However, by 2015, I had dropped exporting tracks to RealBand and then Studio One and was doing complete projects in BIAB. If I needed tracks that required DAW processing, I did in that in the DAW and imported those into BIAB. Did you know that 100% of the demos and demos with vocals are finished in BIAB SGU files and not Reaper, Cakewalk, Logic, RealBand, Studio One or ProTools?

BIAB is a very robust and powerful digital Multi Track Recorder. More powerful than my hardware Tascam Model 24 digital Recorder/mixer because of BIAB's integration with my PC.

I know the principles of multi track recording very good and they can be applied to the BIAB Mixer and produce as many tracks as I want. I think it was in 2014 that BIAB got the recording audio feature and Artist Performance File and BIAB was no longer restricted to 8 tracks. Projects could be constructed with 15-18 tracks or more without any degradation of the audio from bouncing. The RT Medley Maker can be used for 'automatic punch-in' and with the addition of Utility Tracks, and using the 10 channel sub-mixer slots for punch-in's , there's 264 available slots for automatic overdubs and punch-ins. There were 70 before Utility Tracks were introduced. You ever use those?

Part Markers are an astounding arrangement programming feature. Combined with MultiStyles the arrangement configurations are astronomical. A MultiStyle can be made on a per project basis or constructed to be universal and placed in the StylePicker to use on any song. MultiStyles can be made on the fly from the Bar Settings Window. A MultiStyle can have as many as 24 sub-styles and they can be used over and over in any configuration.

MultiStyles can be used in conjunction with the RT Medley Maker.

The Artist Performance File feature is a very powerful tool that can integrate every media type of sound BIAB recognizes. So, midi, SuperMidi, Loops, RealTracks and live or recorded audio can be merged together. It's Artist Performance Files that provided the opportunity starting in 2014 for audio to reside on any other track in the Legacy Mixer which prior to then, it wasn't possible.

There's no war between DAWs and BIAB. They each have their place and as you've shown, they can work extremely well together. Keep doing what you're doing. I don't think the people that use BIAB and a DAW are going anywhere. You will be able to help people for a long time to come.

At the same time, I will be making tracks and songs as complex and sophisticated as they can make in a DAW but doing in minutes what takes them hours while producing indistinguishable results between the two.

"Don't get all dusted about this. You're actually saying the point you're missing. "
"I first purchased BIAB in 2013 and yes, it was fine."
So you are telling me that I should of been happy with BB 2009, not complain, not suggest anything unless first consulting you and you would of saved me and set me straight.

If it's ok what I'm doing don't give me a hard time when I post ideas and improvements.
Look at all the crap I went through with you about non destructive editing and direct play, it's in Biab now, it's in the Plugin now.
All the info I posted with Reaper for the Plugin, ZERO interest, ZERO understanding, was like being on another planet.
How many wanted to help and try this out themselves, instead of being scared stiff of the UNKNOWN ?
Don't condemn things that you can't understand and don't even try out.
I post a lot about Reaper because it's unique how it can work with Biab/Plugin and even Rewire it, I cop so much crap all the time, as I said it's a reaper derangement syndrome, I have never seen anything like it. How much is Reaper, what copy protection does it have ? none, you can keep trying it after the 60 days and it will work just the same.
The ones that complain come up with absolutely nothing. I asked you to generate Brent demos. How many UserTracks have you uploaded ? "by their fruits you will know them".
Sure if I was stuck out in the desert with just Biab i would be able to do the same, but I'm not, I'm living in a modern era and I don't want the old restrictive interface with all it's limitation.
There is no way in a professional studio they could use Biab, but to have a professional VST that can give studio session players in their DAW is another story.
No wonder it's been stuck in the past for so fricken long ! its in a time warp because of the old guard.
I remember users in the beta forum blocking users with new ideas from coming in that I suggested. That says it all.
Just give me a break ! how many times have I been through all of this ? No more Charlie.

It's all getting too hard I think I'll give up and go home.
EDIT: "Nope. They'll have to invent their own algorithm and then win a lawsuit against PG Music. "
Crap so many other software do the same thing.

Charlie Fogle, you are incorrect. Please see attached pictures.

1. Demo song "Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockBalladBrent Ev 065 #1167 solo.wma" was not generated by BiaB, but was manually chopped and put together by PG Music staff member.

2. Performance track "eg4800.wma" was first chop off with the first 16 bars (excluding the 2 bars lead-in), and then combined with the last 4 bars ending, to make a demo song.

3. Don't use Audacity. Use a DAW. Set to bpm 65. Chop it yourself. Listen to both tracks together, and you will see.

4. Open the demo sgu "_BALBMS2 demo (ALL REALTRACKS-Ballads,BrentElGuitSol,ElBass,ElGuits,B3Organ)", and this is the chord sheet for the demo audio. I can confirm this, as I already verified the chords with a chord detection software on the demo audio.

5. You can open the demo sgu, sit there for an hour, try to generate the same solo, and you won't get it. Even though you have the chord sheet exactly the same as the demo audio, you can't recreate the demo audio. The algorithm is not invented yet.

6. Demo songs were not generated by BiaB. BiaB doesn't have an algorithm to keep 16 bars of original recording track unchanged. The only way to extract 16 bars of audio from the performance track unchanged, is to manually cut it out, aka "straight out of the box".

<< 1. Demo song "Guitar, Electric, Soloist RockBalladBrent Ev 065 #1167 solo.wma" was not generated by BiaB, but was manually chopped and put together by PG Music staff member. >>

That may or may not be the case. The screenshot doesn't show evidence to how the demo was generated, only that the audio clips exist in that RT data file.

This issue was resolved years before 2023 and I'm unaware if you visited the forum regularly before 2023.

There were far less RealTracks and RT data years ago and there was a common issue with tracks generating abrupt and cut off intro's and endings.

This was due to how users edited tracks. Bar Settings (F5) was the overwhelming choice to mute and change instruments, particularly when a song used two or more soloists. In other words, manually chopped and put together by users rather than generated by BIAB.

I had discovered RT#1152-Silence RealTrack and found that it eliminated these abrupt intros and endings. I shared this information in a forum post and a PG Music staffer later posted in that thread that using RT#1152 was the preferred and a better method for changing soloists because that RT was designed for the BIAB algorithm to 'read ahead' and 'see' the forthcoming change and 'seeing' this would prompt the algorithm to select different ending and intro material.

So, to recap, this method prompts BIAB algorithm to create a 'Smooth Transition'. Evidently, the algorithm does exist.

The reason this is better is because it prompts the algorithm to select different audio than may normally be selected if the algorithm is unaware of a forthcoming change in a soloist. The algorithm interprets RT#1152 as a different and unique RealTrack to be the same as every other RealTrack.

Whereas using Bar Settings, the user is working with generated music that didn't account for the soloist change. Doing post generation editing like a DAW operates.

<< 2. Performance track "eg4800.wma" was first chop off with the first 16 bars (excluding the 2 bars lead-in), and then combined with the last 4 bars ending, to make a demo song. >>

Correct. But there's no evidence whether the editing was done by a staffer manually or generated by BIAB. Two takeaways.

a) eg4800.wma is not a Performance Track. It is a RealTrack data file for RT#1167. The two are not the same.

b) I agree that the 1:15 clip used for RT#1167 is also the demo for that track and it may also appear in an actual performance by Brent Mason in an actual Artist Performance Set but in either case, the clip was included in the RT data file and all indications are it was recorded at the same time as the remainder of that RT data file not a clip extracted from an Artist Performance Set.


<< 3. Don't use Audacity. Use a DAW. Set to bpm 65. Chop it yourself. Listen to both tracks together, and you will see. >>

I didn't analyze anything in Audacity. That screenshot is for display only.

I analyzed and generated tracks in BIAB. I analyzed the audio using the Audio Chord Wizard for the Chords, key signature, and tempo which automatically populated the Chord Chart. I converted the solo recording into an Artist Performance File and generated and played the solo over several different styles, keys, and tempos. And having the solo's notation and tabs available for study or to learn how to play that solo just like Brent.

Here's what PG Music states about the Brent Mason Artist Performance Set 4:
"Each of these electric guitar solos has notation which shows exactly what is being played by Brent Mason. This means you can use the amazing audio stretching features in Band-in-a-Box to slow down the audio with out changing the pitch and learn to play along with Brent Masons solos. Each song in Artist Performance set 4 has a solo that was specifically recorded for that song. "

Those specific solos are in the Artist Performance Track media. Just like midi, SuperMidi, Loops, or RealTracks, an Artist Performance Track is designed to work within the BIAB Mixer, Notation, Chord Chart, Piano Roll and all the other feature tools BIAB offers.

This also means you can take any Brent Mason solo from any SGU chart when Brent's RealTrack included notation. Saving that track as an Artist Performance Track also saves the integrated midi from that track's performance. This works with any artist, any style, any tempo, any key and any instrument that includes midi data for notation. You ever use this feature?

This is getting long. I'll post replies to the remaining points in another post.

<< 4. Open the demo sgu "_BALBMS2 demo (ALL REALTRACKS-Ballads,BrentElGuitSol,ElBass,ElGuits,B3Organ)", and this is the chord sheet for the demo audio. I can confirm this, as I already verified the chords with a chord detection software on the demo audio. >>

Correct. This is solid evidence the 'performance' of the demo audio came from a RealTrack data file and not necessarily a Performance Set track.

This also appears to be evidence that data clips solos as long as 1:15 minutes exist in RealTrack instruments data files in their data folder.

<< 5. You can open the demo sgu, sit there for an hour, try to generate the same solo, and you won't get it. Even though you have the chord sheet exactly the same as the demo audio, you can't recreate the demo audio. The algorithm is not invented yet. >>

Absolutely correct. This is the heart of the subject. If you don't get anything else from this discussion, understand point #5.

One can open a demo, any demo, or any SGU file, sit for an hour generating the chart over and again and not get that same solo. There are several causes for this, some intentional and some by design.

For instance:

By design, RealTracks data files residing in every RealTracks data folder are not Performances of songs. They are recordings playing propriatary charts designed and intended for propriatary performances created by implementing the BIAB algorithm, tools, features, and processes in conjunction with user input information to create a unique, distinct and solitary audio performance.

By user choice, one is sitting for an hour or more regenerating a chart they have provided their input and settings but choosing not to implement any of the advanced tools, features, techniques and processes of the BIAB algorithm. This futile effort outputs exactly what one should expect - a mediocre performance. You are relying solely on the Chord Sheet that's exactly the same as the demo audio but every other element of that production is left out. It's not due to the algorithm not being invented yet, the algorithm is there but hasn't been implemented. You have not indicated anywhere that you are doing anything other than entering the same chords as the demo, in the same key and tempo and generating over and over.

<< 6. Demo songs were not generated by BiaB. BiaB doesn't have an algorithm to keep 16 bars of original recording track unchanged. The only way to extract 16 bars of audio from the performance track unchanged, is to manually cut it out, aka "straight out of the box". >>

Nonsense. Your own photos show a 16 bar of original recording unchanged in RT#1167 data file eg4800.wma.

There has been no evidence presented other than what PG Music puts in every demo video presentation for many years that what is being played is generated by BIAB.

I'm not sure how you're arriving at the #6 statement when evidence you posted clearly shows that 16 bar or original recording track unchanged. What evidence can be shown that contradicts the PG Music Web site and the written statement in every demo video for years to the contrary of your statement?

Charlie Fogle, you talked a lot about theories, but not a single word in practice.

You said "to implement any of the advanced tools, features, techniques and processes of the BIAB algorithm."

Well, how?

Can you provide a step by step guide, on how to use BiaB to create a soloist track, with 16 bars of unchanged audio directly from data file eg4800.wma?

I doubt you can.

If you are a PG staff member, there might be a way. If you are a user, there is no way.

To a user, the only way, is to drag eg4800.wma to the DAW, and manually cut it up.

<< Charlie Fogle, you talked a lot about theories, but not a single word in practice. >>

You've made some great points and observations and I appreciate your good nature in discussing these unique BIAB features and tools. I've not gone into detail to how these features work up to now as this has been a discussion rather than a tutorial.

RT#1152, MultiStyles, RealTrack Medley Maker, Song Form, Artist Performance Files, Audio Chord Wizard, Chord Sheet, BIAB Mixer, The Audio Track, Repeats/Coda's, and Part Markers are all tangible, real features of BIAB and all of my screenshots are real BIAB results, not mock-ups.

<< You said "to implement any of the advanced tools, features, techniques and processes of the BIAB algorithm."

Well, how? >>

The short answer is to use them. In the User Showcase, you can hardly find songs that use repeats, MultiStyles, Artist Performance Files, or the Medley Maker. Most productions are exported BIAB tracks to be manipulated, edited, arranged and mixed/ volume automated, comped and add effects in a DAW. One of the reasons that brought me into this discussion is I have recently looked at about 10 YouTube videos on using BIAB. Some were gifted and experience musicians but all of them made the most basic SGU files that BIAB can produce - essentially input a 3 chord progression and generate. None of the videos featured any of the above features.

<< Can you provide a step by step guide, on how to use BiaB to create a soloist track, with 16 bars of unchanged audio directly from data file eg4800.wma?

I doubt you can. >>

Yes, you're right. No I can't. To explain why, I'll assume the eg4800.wma file to be as it's represented in the BIAB program, a RealTrack audio data file to be used with RT#1167.

As a RealTrack audio data file, eg4800.wma is a studio recording by a session musician, in a recording studio and exists as recorded audio. It's not a generated BIAB SGU Performance. Nothing exists for users to recreate this live recording. The 16 bars were recorded following a proprietary chart prepared by PG Music developers. The session musician likely followed an SGU Chord Chart and backing tracks for the session player to follow along with a printed or chart on a PC screen. No BIAB production features, tools and processes would be added or necessary because that track is being recorded live to be used as a RT audio data file, not a performance. However, that SGU file could and was likely used for the instrument demo audio.

Even with the exact Chord Sheet they used, generating a BIAB file with that same eg4800.wma file included, the BIAB algorithm is designed to select material from the entire folder of all the included wma files in the folder not just the one eg4800.wma file. So, the only way to generate the exact soloist track is to have the session player record it again.

<< To a user, the only way, is to drag eg4800.wma to the DAW, and manually cut it up. >>

This is mostly correct. You can do it in BIAB and extract the entire 16 bars, convert that into an Artist Performance File, analyze the chords, tempo, key and populate the Chord Chart and play it over the correct Chords. You would be able to change the tempo, key and style but not chord changes. You would also have to manually add the underlining midi to have notation and tabs. If it exists as a demo or an Artist Performance, that would be another way to use it.

Notice in my last post two screenshots where I did what I've detailed above with a Brent Mason Artist Performance. His performance is 4 choruses of 29 bars plus the ending. It is already in the Artist Performance File format that can be used in a SGU file or in the Artist Performance SGU song. Either way I can play that track and chord progression slowed down, learn with the notation and tab, loop it and have speed up after each consecutive loop to practice the solo and start slow and get it up to full speed.

This procedure can be done with any instrument, any track from any style or SGU chord sheet if the RealTrack has underlying midi for display of the notation and tabs.

For example, you can create a SGU Chord Chart and use a Brent Mason soloist RealTrack with underlying midi and work on the solo until it sounds the way you like, any changes, regenerations and such, the midi notation and tabs will be updated. Once you are satisfied, convert it to an Artist Performance File so it remains exactly the same regardless of the tempo, key and style you practice with it

Any file, regardless the format, (midi, SuperMidi, Loops, RealTracks or live recorded audio can be converted to an Artist Performance Track by Right clicking on the Track, opening Track Actions and selecting the bottom selection - Save Track as a Performance File. Note: the SGU project must be saved first or you will be prompted to save the file before BIAB will complete the action.

I've attached a link to a post from 2020 I made about Artist Performance Files.

The Case for "Artist Performance Tracks"

This is what I get, you can see where the ending starts that's add on to the original

<< This is what I get, you can see where the ending starts that's add on to the original >>

This is what you get when you do what?
What are we seeing? Is this relevant to this discussion?

The screenshot is with Reaper. So, what BIAB tools, features, techniques, and processes were used to create the Reaper screenshot?

RE:

"I first purchased BIAB in 2013 and yes, it was fine."
Should run on XP okay

Charlie's Choice every Studio in Nashville should have one >


Instant generate/play, no decompression, no rendering, any DAW, API integration Reaper.
Absolute crap, get outta here, go home >

<< 3. Don't use Audacity. Use a DAW. Set to bpm 65. Chop it yourself. Listen to both tracks together, and you will see. >>

I didn't analyze anything in Audacity. That screenshot is for display only.

I analyzed and generated tracks in BIAB. I analyzed the audio using the Audio Chord Wizard for the Chords, key signature, and tempo which automatically populated the Chord Chart. I converted the solo recording into an Artist Performance File and generated and played the solo over several different styles, keys, and tempos. And having the solo's notation and tabs available for study or to learn how to play that solo just like Brent.

Reading comprehension and context matters. Big egos don't

I've no time nor desire to play games with egos.

"What are we seeing?"
A picture is worth a 1000 words, it says it all, everything is there like MV said.
Just help to improve things, not hider and say that 2013 was fine and we don't need non destructive editing or direct play.
I put in so much time and effort in improvements for all the software, but then it is just knocked buy those that don't understand or give anything themselves and expect me to go back to 2009 and stay there in the 90's.
What are you wanting me to do, what is bothering you so much ?????????

"BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory."
Where is WinXP Pentium II 350mhz Slot 1 BIAB 20013 ? it's fine !



[/quote]

Charlie,

I have read through your posts.

From a production perspective, Artist Performance Tracks or Files, are nothing but audio files. You can play it in BiaB as an orange color track, or drag it to a DAW and do manipulations there. The midi, tabs and notations come along with performance files are not useful if you don't do studies.

What's really useful, is the sgu chord sheets come along with the performance files. Once you know what chord progression Brent Mason was playing along when the solo track was originally recorded, you can use the solo track in a way of "straight out of the box" in your DAW, without having to chop it and then assemble it.

You are correct, the Artist Performance Sets, as well as the Instrumental Studies sets, were very useful in real production, because the original chord progressions are known. There is only one problem: quantity.

For electric guitar solos, slow to middle tempo range (65 ~ 85 bpm), there are not many there can be used. Most of the solos are in the fast tempo range.

If compare performance files to the massive BiaB data files, such as eg4800.wma, we are talking about a swimming pool versus an ocean.

The bad thing about data files is, there is no sgu chord sheet. In other words, the chord progression information is saved in some weird XT2 and ST2 files, which can only be read by BiaB, not by users. And apparently, PG Music doesn't want people to read these types of files.

RealTrack #1167 is an exception. Somehow, demo sgu "_BALBMS2" is exactly the chord sheet of which the data file was originally recorded based on. I tried to search demo sgu files for other guitar soloist RealTracks, no luck, there is not any.

If I map it out by chords it will play the same part of the source file over another chord and so get different marker names further on in the bars that use the same source file.
I was going to melodyne the source out but there is no direct input version for that guitar.
if it's based more on notes being played and if riffs can start on any beat ?

I can map out a rhythm instrument this way with chords.
So I might go play with RapidComposer again, you can match EQ the sound of a RealTrack Guitar into a good virtual instrument that has articulation keyswitches to move the same style playing from midi/realchart over any other chord/key.
The PG RealChart has the articulations that I could script into keyswitches or bends.





Because you have the notation for all the sections, you can drop them into RapidComposer and see what it will fit over where.
So if you import your chords from Biab into RapidComposer then drop the midi riff in then it will show what audio section of the midi will fit where in Biab or DAW chord track.

You can do it all in Reaper also as I made some script to color the chord and scale notes in the midi editor going by the region chord names.
With Reaper you could have the midi/audio items on the one track and group the midi with it's associated audio clip so as you move the midi the audio will follow.



Chord & Scale Note Color On:



Script: ReaTrak create midi chords from region chord name (snap guide).lua
Script: ReaTrak create midi scale (snap guide).lua

This is with an Audio & Midi riff item grouped together, it can be moved along the midi chord/scale track with snap to see where it best fits. It can be played/previewed with the other tracks.
You can shorten the riffs and join sections.
If you use melodyne with the whole source files to create the Midi, you can extend or shorten any riff.

<< I have read through your posts. >>

Thank you. I truly appreciate you for that.

<< From a production perspective, Artist Performance Tracks or Files, are nothing but audio files. You can play it in BiaB as an orange color track, or drag it to a DAW and do manipulations there. The midi, tabs and notations come along with performance files are not useful if you don't do studies >>

Artist Performance Files or Tracks display as audio files everywhere but in BIAB. In BIAB, Artist Performance Files and Tracks are a proprietary BIAB file that is converted audio so that BIAB can use that audio with all the proprietary and unique features, tools, processes and techniques in BIAB. You can do much more than just play it as an orange file. Once audio has been converted into an Artist Performance File, the Audio Chord Wizard can analyze the chords, create a Tempo Map, determine the key signature, equalize the tempo, automatically populate the Chord Sheet, edit the waveform, normalize it, fade in, fade out, amplify or reduce any section or the whole track, volume automation, transpose, transcribe, tune, repair sour notes, harmonize and convert stereo to mono or mono to stereo. This is just one feature of BIAB working with audio not generated by BIAB. There are quite a few more features in BIAB that can work with audio not generated in BIAB when the audio has been converted to an Artist Performance File.

Underlying midi included with an Artist Performance File is necessary for the performance file to be utilized by other features. As you noted, Notation and tabs is one feature. The Guitar Window is another. This window displays a fretboard and highlights each note and its location on the fretboard as the audio track plays. The Guitar Window has many settings and configurations and it's my understanding it can be tweaked and is very accurate

<< What's really useful, is the sgu chord sheets come along with the performance files. Once you know what chord progression Brent Mason was playing along when the solo track was originally recorded, you can use the solo track in a way of "straight out of the box" in your DAW, without having to chop it and then assemble it. >>
Correct. With practice, using BIAB for this type analysis becomes quick work. For instance, that 16 bar phrase in ag4800.wav can be extracted and converted into an an Artist Performance File and analyzed in the ACW, chords placed in the Chord Sheet, notation with tabs and the Guitar window displaying that 16 bar phrase and it's not going to be chopped together. You will be seeing all the information about that specific clip of audio. Any and every BIAB project can be made into an Artist Performance in seconds.

<< You are correct, the Artist Performance Sets, as well as the Instrumental Studies sets, were very useful in real production, because the original chord progressions are known. There is only one problem: quantity.

For electric guitar solos, slow to middle tempo range (65 ~ 85 bpm), there are not many there can be used. Most of the solos are in the fast tempo range.

If compare performance files to the massive BiaB data files, such as eg4800.wma, we are talking about a swimming pool versus an ocean.

The bad thing about data files is, there is no sgu chord sheet. In other words, the chord progression information is saved in some weird XT2 and ST2 files, which can only be read by BiaB, not by users. And apparently, PG Music doesn't want people to read these types of files. >>

This is true, they guard their proprietary material but they provide access to that proprietary material when a person uses BIAB to work with that material, either as midi, RealTracks or audio not generated by BIAB that's been converted to an Artist Performance File. Everything a user needs to create a custom and accurate SGU file is provided by PG Music to do so. It's simply necessary to do so in the BIAB program.
Once converted to an Artist Performance File, the audio clip the speed can be slowed or made faster without changing pitch. Yes, there is a massive amount of audio data in BIAB to use.

<< RealTrack #1167 is an exception. Somehow, demo sgu "_BALBMS2" is exactly the chord sheet of which the data file was originally recorded based on. I tried to search demo sgu files for other guitar soloist RealTracks, no luck, there is not any. >>

I agree this is correct for the 16 bars that seem to have been recorded specifically for the demo of the guitar and also as RealTrack data material. In regard to demos, there are six SGU Chord Sheets prepared for this RealTrack and associated audio performances for all six Chord Sheets.