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Fender buying Studio One certainly brings back memories of Gibson and Sonar.
I never used the Studio One forum, but its closure has caused some concern for some people.
I would most likely still be using Sonar if it had not gone away.
I have never liked Real Band very much or several of the other DAWs I have tried.
I don't have any real reason to think there will be any problem with Studio One.
If it did die for some reason and I had to make a change again, I would not be sure where I would go.
Pro Tools seems like it is still the industry standard default major DAW, but I have always found it hard to learn how to operate. Pro Tools is most likely the best DAW for live recording, especially for live drums, but I never considered it best for what most of us here do with a DAW.
Where would you go next if your favorite DAW were to go away and why?
Billy
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Billy. je t'aime rb. the key to rb is to dig into it and its unique features. does it have 'quirks' ? sure. but so do many music apps. there are many of us rb users that grew up on pg powertracks like myself...so...rb learning cycle is lessened. imho Rob Helms (also a rb user user) said it best ie its lack of 'familiarity' that keeps some away from rb. without bias i can say awhile back i tried various demoes of various daws but came back to rb time and again even though there are some very nice ones out there. frankly for me after trying all those daws the ones that still crank me up are... 1..reaper version 2 which ived used with rb and bb for years and with powertracks before that. ie www.reaper.fm still offers version 2 i believe. and.. 2..mtstudio by bremmers.... https://www.multitrackstudio.com/if you doubt me re mtstudio heres the forum where its fans hang out. https://www.multitrackstudio.com/forum/as you can see...tons of posts on the mts forum. you might ask why those two particularly ? answer is simple...as a tech i like them for... 1..they are both small lightweight exe's. 2..as an ex programmer in my early days years ago i like apps that do a lot with few computer resources needed. 3..both are very 'nimble' and will even run on the most clunky pc's at the same time tho' neither offer auto accompany of course. so of course its understandeable that rb is a larger exe. and there you have it. what i find testing lots of daws these days is as we used to say in the poor london uk area where i grew up...lol.. 'lots of flash'. whereas rb isnt flashy but offers one heck of a lot of features. sometimes the beauty of an ugly duckling is underneath... haveing said above there are various features i would like in rb. have a great merry xmas and a fab 2025 Billy. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/22/24 07:48 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Journeyman
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I want a DAW to be powerful yet easy to use. I hate manuals so I need plenty of You Tube "how to" content, friendly forums and Facebook activity. A clean, logical well designed interface where I can work quickly and efficently. It comes loaded with all the plug-ins one needs including melodyne and a stem splitter. It is also very reasonably priced. Mixcraft ticks all my boxes yet remains a mystery why it is largely ignored and unloved in general. I've used and discarded most of the popular daws over the years for various reasons. So Billy, give Mixcraft a look.
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Izzy.
i would just with respect like to point out one of many advantages of rb viz traditional daws.
lets take this scenario....
its 3 am and this has happened to me many times.
..i get a song idea...(and make a cuppa tea...lol.)
..if i open up reaper version 2 which i like or another daw its gonna take me awhile to enter all the audio and midi tracks ie record them whereas..
..all i do in rb is (as i like rock genres) choose such a style and enter my chords.
et voila i got my backing band fast to lay down my vocals.
in summary rb lets me get my song idea down FAST with actual realistic session musicians so i have a realistic backing to my song.
i dont (like i used to do in commercial studios)
have to bring in a group of session players either.
i ve used traditional daw software many times in the past. but keep on coming back to rb.
you said you dont like manuals and i dont either but once one reads the rb manual (its on line also here at pg plus faq's) one will i hope realise the many plusses rb has over the traditional daw.
i agree more you tube vids are needed re rb.
and yes i agree Mixcraft is a very nice daw.
ive tried it. but i keep on coming back to rb.
lets remember rb is free also.
ps i'm haveing lots of fun with the new stem splitter included in rb for 2025.
have a grrreat xmas.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/23/24 09:43 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I didn't know S1 closed their forum... Now I know what the fuss is all about. I was considering it to replace Cakewalk, but now seeds of doubt had been planted...
Bandlab is definitely not Gibson, the owner has enough cash, however recent "subscription only" new Sonar tipped the scale for me after 25+ years. I decided to give them till summer of 2025 (full year after Sonar anouncement) to come up with perpetual licenses. If that will not happen, I will start transitioning to another DAW. S1 was a no brainer choice, but now I will have to investigate more.
My other choices were:
Cubase - (thankfully they got rid of USB dongles). Full featured DAW, that has a good overall track.
Mixcraft - pretty nice DAW for the price. Has a lot of potential.
Reaper - very flexible and affordable, but lacks a particular comping / take lane feature, touch navigation and a few others that I am used to.
Billy, I agree with your view on Pro tools.
-------------------
Bottom line, out of all DAWs I 've tried in the past 3 years (most of them). Cakewalk has most preferred workflow for my use. Specifically automated take lanes with individual mutes and solos, automation of these take lanes. Touch navigation and zoom. Sonar pioneered that technology about 10 years back. No other Daw came remotely close, even Bitwig which supposedly made with touchscreen in mind is far away. Multi Tool that is fairly "intelligent" and lets you work without constant tool switching. GUI is likely the most flexible one out of most I've tried. Unfortunately I don't believe in "renting" software. While Cakewalk (not Sonar) is still free, they had a very specific line in FAQ about discontinuation, which they quietly removed when uncomfortable questions started pouring in. That was an evidence of their plans, and I doubt anything will change. I still have some hope boneheads some people at Bandlab marketing will change their minds about perpetual licenses of this great software.
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I also use BIAB to generate Ideas for a song. It is great for that.
Very few people who I know are using only 0ne DAW.
I would not know how to use RB to record a drum kit, for example, with eight or ten microphones plus triggers.
I am not looking for speed but quality.
I am happy enough with Studio One Pro 7.
My question was, if your favorite DAW, RB, for example, went away, what would you go to next?
Billy
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Just so you know, I own Reaper, Pro Tools, Sonar, Studio One, Ableton Live, and, of course, BB.
I have not experimented with Cubase, but many people I know use it.
I am not fond of renting software but sometimes it is the only way you can get it.
Like everything else, this music hobby is getting more expensive every day. Service is not easy to access in many cases, especially for non-professional musicians.
I can also say that getting service on anything at any price has been very difficult in the last few years, not to mention the expense. I had an electrician over this morning for thirty minutes and paid $250 cash! I knew how to do the electrical work, but I am too old to be calling around the attic!
Any of the companies that sell DAWs can go on a subscription basis at any time. They can also sell the company. There is no real protection, no matter who you buy from.
Billt
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I tried a bunch when it looked like SONAR was ending. I landed briefly in Mixcraft then shifted to Studio One by Presonus. That was an easy choice because 1) it integrates the control software with my Presonus hardware (see signature) and I’m a beta tester for Presonus Notion.
I’m not concerned by Fender buying the company. Tremendous resources went into Notion Mobile that is free and runs on anything including iPads with pencil for handwriting scores. I think the new forum will get sorted out.
Studio One notation is improving rapidly. All I can say is, there is a plan and like BIAB they don’t give out plans in advance.
Protools at one point was used by professional audio engineers as a standard, which helped in exchanging files between studios. I’ve fought with it in the studio and I’m grateful to not use it at home.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-8, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Problem with Bandlab, they potentially CAN deactivate existing Cakewalk by Bandlab (not renew activation) and one will be stuck with 2017 last paid version if they have it of course. On their once great forum, they kill threads within hours that raise legitimate questions. If they had publicly said that a user will be allowed to keep last published version of Cakewalk, it would be a totally thing, but they keep on playing their dark games.
My take on the whole (music) software (for Windows) thing is this. Once you buy a software, it should work for at least 5-7 years. Renting software... I don't know. Not my thing.
Ohh, BTW. I had good experience with buying a few "pre-owned" legit licenses (transfers) at very deep discounts on Knobcloud. Sellers usually have history / feedback, so easy to spot fakes.
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Presently Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) is my DAW of choice. If it was no longer available I would switch to +++ Multitrack Studio or (MTS) +++. MTS has built-in midi instruments that were updated in June, 2024; supports the midi 2 Note On Orchestral Articulation profile; supports VST2, VST3 and CLAP plugins, has a great user forum, small footprint (Download size is approx. 12 MB) and is not a resource hog.
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That’s one I did not know, Jim.
Sounds good for someone starting out. All DAWs do basic functions, so someone beginning should try all the demos and choose the one that ‘feels’ right. Once you get the basics down and know specific features you need, review the choices again.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-8, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Jim.
i'm glad you echo what i said upthread about MTS.
i mention it sometimes to people with no interest in session muso track generation and they go...'what ? never heard of it'....and think i'm nuts till i point them to the MTS user forum.
but to be fair lets also mention some of the free daws out there.
eg podium and traction waveform and others.
not to be sneezed at. but i come back to rb cos of its session muso and other features.
Charlie also made some great observations re advantages of rb re auto accompany in rb.
for someone totally new to music production though not interested in auto accompany etc.
my 2 top suggestions are...for reasons i mentioned upthread...
1..reaper version 2. which reminds me in some ways of the big multitracks we used to use in commercial studios but with the advantage of
plugin support. its so simple to use.
2..MTS as you mentioned. like reaper excellent value for money.
i used to use reaper more but with recent feature
upgrades its rb for me as i can do all i want in rb tracks view. (which is why i would like to see bb's new track view be like rb ie a musos work center with audio/midi daw like editing.)
ps Billy re recording multiple mics at a time (eg drums) you might find rb users rharv comments in the rb forum topic 'how do you use rb' of use.
you can record multiple tracks at a time in rb.
assuming you have the appropo sound interface.
merry xmas to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/23/24 12:45 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I have reaper the lastest version, Mixbus 32 last version, and have RB i love them all for different reasons. I use RB the most because of exactly what JAOM said quick fast creation. I used Studio one for 3 versions and it is a great software, no complaints. I just like having all my toys in one place. I also had MTS MultitrackStudios version 1 thru 6 it is a powerful simple and unique program. I spent years with cakewalk products. Version 2 home studios on floppy disk back around 1998. bought the music creator 2 thru 5 and then Sonar Pro Loved them but found a few things that bugged. Tried Logic on a small mac and loved it but my old Mac would not upgrade anymore. So i have settled into RB for the most part. Having done around 125 projects in it i find it simple and complete. If i need a bit more fancy slick editing i can jump over to Reaper. I used to jump to Mixbus 32C but Now i have the Mixbus 32 C channel strip working in RB along with the SSL channel strips. Pretty power mixing done with Analog Legendary feel and sound.
Bottom line they all work, and all get it done. Find what make your job easier and run with it. If you have not tried MTS i suggest trying it.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Zoom Livetrack L-8
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Hi Om
I do use and enjoy RB ocassionally. Also I have used Powertracks since Adam was a lad. Depending on the task at hand.
Hey OM
Why don't you post your songs on the showcase any more? I really enjoyed them!!
Merry Xmas & a great 2025 to you and yours
♬♩♪♩ I҉z҉z҉y҉ ♬♩♪♩
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Reaper - very flexible and affordable, but lacks a particular comping / take lane feature, touch navigation and a few others that I am used to. Misha, The take/Lanes/Comping feature in Reaper has been hugely upgraded over the last two iterations. Check out Kenny G's youtube tutorials to see if they meet your requirements. https://www.youtube.com/@REAPERMania/search?query=takes%20Reaper7
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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...
I would not know how to use RB to record a drum kit, for example, with eight or ten microphones plus triggers.
I am not looking for speed but quality.
....
Billy I can help with that if you ever decide to try RB. We do it quite often. The 'quality' part comes from the hardware and artistry, not a particular DAW, FWIW
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Well said Sir RHarv. Like I said above i have used Just about all of them and they all do a great job. They all get the job done. It really comes down to what you like it to look/work/and feel like. Your not going to get a full drum kit on separate tracks with a built in sound chip. You need a proper multichannel interface. Or ..... Wait for it .... BiaB or RB! just added a 12 stem drum track in RB generated in less that 15 seconds.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 12/24/24 06:44 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Zoom Livetrack L-8
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If Studio One suddenly went away I'd give Reaper a strong look.
They seem to have a large and loyal following, I like Kenny G's videos, development appears to be steady/continuous, it appears to be here for the long haul and Reaper has a "roll-your-own" programming feel to it which tells me it's very flexible.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Izzy. (re my songs. thanks for the comment appreciated...more songs are in my sig from rock to country etc...but note flag song is 'rough' as i was far from home with no gear to speak of just junk few buks mic/beat box etc as i was showing a relative interested in doing songs. props to Mr David Cuny for helping cleaning it up...fyi ive done so many songs ive lost count useing pg apps.) All. heres a interesting daw noone mentions in the spirit of being unbiased. check it out... https://www.zrythm.org/en/index.htmlfranklly rb is getting so good for me that i dont need anything else. Mcity i know likes the bb plugin/reaps approach. but for years ive been flitting tween pg music apps and reaper ..(since reaps came out) so i'm tired of 'flitting' like a honey bee going from flower to flower. i just want ONE music app which is my center for song creation. and with recent rb feature additions its floating my boat. i know some users like the new bb plugin but the prob for me is i cant do 'on the fly' track editing within it after track generation. WHEREAS in rb i can gen tracks and edit to my hearts content. and do all sorts of fancy tricks with drums. fwiw. merry x to all. om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I never jumped into RB, most likely because of my general thoughts about BIAB. In the beginning, I also used Sonar ten times more than BB, so I think everyone uses what we know the most about.
As time went on and I used other DAWs, RB became less trouble to understand. Every DAW has something to like.
In general, I have always considered BB to be an arcane, hard-to-learn software program with many nonstandard features. Not that Sonar was easy, or any music software for that matter.
As time went on, I became more used to BB and its quirks. On a general note, I curse the lack of standards across the board. How the hell is the United States basically the only country in the world not on the metric system for example?
Truthfully, if any DAW that I use today were to disappear, that would not cause that much of an issue.
I could move to number next with a lot less trouble than in the past. Perhaps a temporary bit of yelling and screaming...lol
Well, Obviously, any DAW is just one part of what is, in truth, a pretty complex system for sound recording. Microphone selection and placement alone require the understanding depicted in "forty-pound" books...lol.
I assume there is nothing to be concerned about with Studio One. Changes in pricing are already being complained about, and the new owners will only do what they think is best for them. Nothing new about that.
Cheers,
Billy
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Peter Gannon Talks Band-in-a-Box with zplane
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
Check out the full interview here: https://products.zplane.de/blog/peter-gannon-interview-pg-music
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