PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Biab.2024 update, correct the bugs

When will we have an update for biab2024 to correct the bugs. One of bugs in biab24 happened when user delete the bar(s) a dialog displays on screen is really annoyed

I won't be holding my breath...
If it wasn't addressed before the release of the new version, I don't think you'll be getting a fix. I am holding back getting the 2025 version... No doubt this will have its own issues.

For $49



For $59

If this is case, it is bad way to run the business

I'm not interested in new features of biab 2025. Why do I have to pay for the bug fix for version 2024?

Vincente, according to this post, you can ask PGM to supply 2024 pre release patch 1114 that resolves a lot of issues.
Good luck.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=829115&Searchpage=1&Main=107418&Words=1114&Search=true#Post829115

That says a lot about the software.

I have a love-hate thing with BIAB...
I love it when it works and dread to click on something, because often freezes, crashes or something is going on in the background without any information given, so I click on something else and low and behold the screen goes gray with a NON RESPONDING message. ...and I wasted valuable time put aside for practicing, next I can't be bother practicing anymore...

On the other hand, I can load Song Master Pro, Gig Performer 5, MIDI Guitar 2, Reaper, HX Edit, X-Air Edit, Helix Floor and NanoKontroll 2, all at the same time and I get NO ISSUES AT ALL!

All of the above apps get any bugs fixed quickly with many of them providing FREE UPDATES for years after being purchased. I won't hesitate purchasing new upcoming paid version from these companies, they deserve it.

My last biab version is the 2023.
In my opinion there was no need for pgmusic to add the audio stem splitter as there are FREE ALTERNATIVES on the net.

BB user.

please take my comments as trying to help.
ie they are meant in a friendly way.
and i know we all occasionally get fed up with gear.

1..i used to get the occasional bb crash but i havent had one for rather a long time.
2..from a programming technical codeing level
one cant just say the other apps work.
i'm sure they do but bb is a very different animal imho.
its an auto accompany program and thus with different codeing routines of course.
ive often wondered why there are no competitors for bb...and i suspect its because what bb does at the codeing level is rather complex compared
to music apps that dont do auto accompany.
in summary if auto accompany was easy at the technical level we would have seen many more
bb competitors in its market space.
(btw i was a lousy programmer so i moved into management...lol.)
3..how do you install bb ? some people ive seen seem to have rather complex rig set ups.
i use a simple approach by hanging the bb shipped drive off a fast usb port and do a minimal install.
4..what is your pc config ?? processor/ram/drives etc. note pc's with high dpc internal latency can be sometimes problematic.

finally has your pc been optimised for music production ? the reason i ask is even tho one can run bb on a low spec pc i suspect bb internally is rather complex.
for example here if i run bb on an older pc with a low spec processor performance isnt optimal.
whereas (and its just a middle range ryzen cpu)
on my production pc win boots up in a few secs
as do reaps and bb and realband.

just out of interest is your production pc on the net ?
this can be a problem sometimes.
(i use a seperate el cheapo pc for the net and get no probs.)

i would be very curious how long your pc takes to boot into win from cold and once booted up how long bb takes to load.
also in rb action >> test audio performance ow many tracks capability does rb report ?
here with 2025 rb i get over 300 reported.

finally in reaps at top right what asio latency is reported ? here i get 4 to 5 millisecs ie good low latency.
ps ive tried various stem splitters but the one i'm useing in rb i'm finding i prefer for some reason i cant explain.

hope this helps somehow.
if not i tried lol.

happy new year.

om
(done a ton of songs with the reaps/bb/rb combo.)

Thanks for your information. If Pg is working to fix the bugs in biab 2024 then I will wait for the official release version

1114 has been used by some people, certainly since some time in October 2024. If it hasn't actually been released then I'm sceptical that it ever will be. Now 2025 is out, I think PGM's focus will be on fixing the bugs in that, not finishing release testing on 1114. I suspect that 1114 wasn't released because all hands were on the pumps trying to get 2025 in some reasonably releasable form. 2024 build 1114 is probably now consigned to history. That said, it must have been fairly close to a "go", so I guess we might see it.

No worries, I know you mean well.

My system is top specs.
The buffer is set at 128 for all I do (apart from when mixing in Reaper) as I need this low latency while playing guitar. By the way I have also been able to go as low as 32 samples too.

Unfortunately biab don't like my ASIO Drivers (Helix or X-Air XR-18), so I am forced to use the Windows 11 own driver.
The computer is configured for audio and as already mentioned, no issues with ALL the other audio programs. By the way, whatever issue I come across with biab, this happens with and without any other applications are or are not running.

One particular issue I experience in biab is when using a virtual grand piano within NI Kontact. It's a VST pluging. So, i can load it in biab and works as expected. I then save the song. Wen I load it again later or the song gets loaded through the jukebox, I get feedback! But I had no feedback when I selected that midi plugin for the first time. Sooooo frustrating! I have to reboot the computer in order to have that song play without feedback.

I have posted this issue in the past. PGMUSIC couldn't help but that plugin works just fine with ALL my other applications. Go figure...

I do understand that it's a complex coding, but as an end user I just want it to work. I am a very patient person but the reality is that biab has never been working smoothly since the very first version I purchased and used with various computers. It took YEARS for the developer to fix an issue with missing filing system when I was trying to view inside the Practice applet. Eventually, after some pestering on my part, it got fixed.

Every biab installation is always done with the default settings, to avoiding more issues.

Regarding RB, I only use it if I want to play a midi song for a quick practice, for anything else I use Reaper.
In Reaper, I often do mixes from the recording of a big band which often consists of 26 individual tracks. Last time I looked, I was running over 100 VST, VST2 and VST3 plugins from various companies, without a problem, so I know that the computer can handle what you throw at it.

Anyway,
Happy new year to you and everyone too!

Forgot to mention... The laptop load in around 18 seconds and use SSD.

< In my opinion there was no need for pgmusic to add the audio stem splitter as there are FREE ALTERNATIVES on the net.>

If you happen to use stem-splitter technology, free or paid, it is worth the $49 price upgrade Rustyspoon# suggested for the BIAB Stem-Splitter alone. Getting all the fixes from 2022,2023 and 2024 that have been made can be considered freebees.

The integration and synchronization between the PGM Stem-Splitter and BIAB, ease of use, and analysis and load speed are features no external Stem-Splitter, free or paid can match and using the ACW in conjunction with the Stem-Splitter is completely unique to BIAB and they have provided several PG made tutorials. .

Today I finally bought 2025. Same old story. Same old styles, all of them (or almost). And collecting all the new 2025 ones, essential or not. Same old bugs, almost all of them, and collecting a good bunch of new 2025 ones that of course I do not need or appreciate.

I just fired my first song testing a random style (_HEATWAV.STY). Well, it sounds so good! Then I tried to use micro-chords in bar 8. This did not work as expected (OK, possibly user error). I just reverted to continue my quick evaluation. One track (Horn Section) failed miserably in the 1st 8 bars! Closed. Opened again, the track is still broken. But 8 bars later this track, playing the same chord progression works OK. Next chorus is OK. So yes, rendering the song is now faster... but it fails. Possibly I can live with this by some ingenious copy and paste... Therefore I will waste my time in different, unexpected tasks instead of living with the older bugs.

When I fired BiaB for the first time I had dozens of errors scanning VST3's. Fortunately my system did not crash. There is no user error, I just happen to have certain plugins with 2 versions, VST2 and VST3 IN_DIFFERENT_FOLDERS! No other application has the slightest problem with that. I learnt long ago the hard way that forcing to use complex VST's inside BiaB sometimes resulted in crashes, so I personally prefer to export to Reaper and use VSTs (or VST3's or whatever) in a much more robsut environment. Not a deal beaker for me, but definitely a bad experience in the first minute of use. Come on, this has not been tested in a real computer intended for music production!

The downloader was fast... AND ALSO FAULTY. I downloaded whole Audiophile in some 4 or 5 hours. I cannot complain about speed. But 3 or 4 out of the 46 files failed. OK, these things happen (almost never when I use other downloaders managing equally large files, but let's say I was lucky before).

I retried and for some reason most retrials did not work... Visibly, but actually they were still downloading in the background, causing a terribly incoherent information on the downloader application. I retried like 4 or 5 times each problem file so the downloader tried to download multiple versions with different names. I finally found it inspecting my files and the traffic: The app was stubbornly downloading copies ( realtracks001-448-flac.23.7z.part, realtracks001-448-flac.23.7z (1).part, realtracks001-448-flac.23.7z (2).part.....). Information on the downloader windows got inconsistent. When I manually determined that all the pieces had at least one copy, I stop the process trying to re-install so many multiple copies and fortunately everything was properly installed. So I succeeded, but not really the kind of software to pass an IT engineering degree.

In the next few holidays I will try to find if the new DAW features (especially tempo changing and no need to store rendered files for Reaper) will compensate for the new bugs. If not, I think I will return BiaB in the next few days. Today I have ZERO hope that old or new bugs will get fixed, I already reported and debugged the exact trigger for some bugs in 2024... and they are exactly the same. My totally uninformed guess is that resources have been 120% busy trying to offer new fancy features when coding for MacOS (that now happens to be a lot of extra work compared to a few years ago).

The situation is not getting any better year after year. And I totally agree, what happens with all the many bugs reported in 2024?

So, you are expecting me to buy the 2025 version in order to have a 2022, 2023 and 2024 to be working properly? No way! Thanks but no thanks...

Actually, I have no expectation for you. I and others, simply made a suggestion that solves your bug problem now with the added benefit of correcting your opinion that's based on the miscalculation that there's no benefit or advantage to opting for the PGM Stem-Splitter that's only available in 2025 and fixes issues before you even know you have them if using third party free or paid stem-splitters in BIAB.

PG Staff made a public post on 12/5 (the day after the public release of 2025) there is a planned update for 2024 to fix bugs.

Will there be a free patch for VST3 Users

biab-user

thanks for the info.

here are some things to ponder.
(please note i'm not an apologist for pg or any other vendor. just trying to explain the realities of many tech firms.)

1..i dont know how your rig is set up so its difficult to comment.
all i can say is here i have no probs running bb with asio. same with my other apps.
i can switch tween apps easily.
BUT...and this is important...i'm useing a multi client driver. (see the sound interfaces thread in pg tips forum for more info on mc interfaces.)
is there any chance that when helix or xair are instantiated only one app can be used at a time ?
i couldnt find info on the net whether helix and xair are multiclient asio.
i DO understand however that behr euphoria range of audio interfaces are mc.it might be usefull if you posted pics of your bb driver settings for Helix and X-Air XR-18
and see if the rest of us can spot something.
i do know both Helix and X-Air XR-18 have asio drivers.
i dont know if this is usefull re helix...

https://line6.com/support/topic/69566-helix-asio-driver-doesnt-work-anymore-after-update-to-v380/

do net searches for helix and xair to see users driver comments.


2.re your powerfull pc.
over the years ive helped many people who once the operational pc prob was located said to me...
'but i bought the most powerfull machine'.
and the same when i worked in tech.
however sometimes still various operational probs can occur. particularly as music production is very complex compared to say doing office tasks. in summary any pc even the most powerfull sometimes need optimising for music production. for example...a high end pc might have high dpc compared to a lower end pc and versa. heres a list of pc's that have been tested
as to dpc. (the lower the microsecond count the better.)...the list is from high to low dpc ranked.
my own production pc is very near the bottom with ultra low dpc.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/DPC-Latency-Ranking-Which-laptops-and-Windows-tablets-offer-the-lowest-latency.504376.0.html

its an excellent article imho.

i always recommend to people before buying a new pc to test its dpc. or test it while in the 30 day return window useing the latency monitor utility. which i did when i got my new pc awhile back.
haveing said that i'm not implying your pc is high dpc.

3..bbuser... we all use bb different eh ?
so maybe you have located a bug i havent and thus its totally understandeable your feelings.
all i'm asking is a bit of understanding for the developer, in this case pg working within the OS. its not trivial.
it used to drive us crazy sometimes having to work day in/out within the parameters of an OS.
i always say to people take a programming course to
understand the challenges developers face.

in closing, i have many tech years behind me..
and would say its remarkeable imho how far pg have brought bb (and rb)...warts and all given the many different ways people use pc's in project studios.



happy new year.

om

I am really happy with my i7 LG Gram of couple of years ago. It's a dream of a laptop for me.

Currently, the only issue I encounter is with biab.

The helix floor is single client only but the X-Air is multi client.
I can and do use both interfaces at the same time. In Gig Performer I have the Helix to control MIDI Guitar 2 and other Vests audio in one instance, then another instance uses the X-Air to control OSC on the MIDI controller.
Guitar sound get mixed with VSTs and MIDI Instruments, mainly pads and organs. All working harmoniously.

I have run LatencyMon for over 30 minutes at 32 sample and it passed PDC.

I will look into biab again in a couple of years to see user satisfaction, then I might decide if to part with my money, but not this year.

No, I did not suggest upgrading is worth for the "splitter". I would rather have a random set of lets say 10 known bugs fixed than the splitter thing. For the record, I don't recall anybody requesting it... to be a part of BIAB.

However, I do believe $49 is a very fair price to get BIAB up to date, but for completely different reasons.

<< $49 is a very fair price to get BIAB up to date, >>
Which is all I gave you "credit" for saying...

<< The integration and synchronization between the PGM Stem-Splitter and BIAB, ease of use, and analysis and load speed are features no external Stem-Splitter, free or paid can match and using the ACW in conjunction with the Stem-Splitter is completely unique to BIAB and they have provided several PG made tutorials.>>

For the record, you didn't say that either. This bold content < In my opinion there was no need for pgmusic to add the audio stem splitter as there are FREE ALTERNATIVES on the net.> prompted my response about the functional integration and synchronization shared by the new stem-splitter and BIAB that is unique and is a feature none of the free alternatives he references have that makes the $49 upgrade worth that cost plus give the user the benefit of fixes as well as your completely different reasons included within that cost.

The bottom line is for $49, none of it is worth the cost to the OP at this time. As he said, thanks but thanks.

To biab-user, if you happen to use stem-splitter technology, free or paid, the BIAB Stem-Splitter alone is worth the $49 price upgrade. Rustyspoon#'s suggestion for the $49 upgrade is for completely different reasons that are unrelated to your statement that was in bold print and my response to your statement.

There you go. All fixed.

It is to do with having a positive experience and reliability, it's not the the cost!

I use Song Master Pro almost daily which include stem splitting among other valuable features that is not found in biab.
The fact that I can reliably switch the computer on, double click a .bat icon and moment later I am immersed in learning a song, without issues, day in day out, it's a great experience, which unfortunately is not happening when I start biab.
Sure, I can use biab ok, if I don't use a feature that is meant to be used. This is not a good experience for me.

I think it is OUR bug problem! That is, ALL of us who continue to pay for the software! My opinion is we deserve to have bugs fixed in a more timely fashion without having to wait until it is time to pay again and then, adding insult to injury, finding that a significant number of bugs from the previous version are still in the new version! I don't know of any other software that is routinely released with so many bugs that need to be fixed immediately upon release.

As for the PGM Stem-Splitter and "AI" lyrics generator, I have no use for such tools in BIAB as these are readily available everywhere. IMHO these additions are a waste of resources that should have been dedicated to fixing known bugs.

With that all said, I DID send PGM my $300+ back at the beginning of this month to access the new RealTracks and to support PGM. But I have NOT installed it yet because I just don't have the patience of the fine forum members who invest significant time and efforts to identify bugs and inform PGM of them in great detail. I truly hope these folks are compensated for the hassles they go through.

biab-user

heres some further ideas.

1..it would help other bb users to confirm your bugs if you would please describe a couple in detail so confirming tests can be done...make sense ?
cos the rest of us are flying blind and dont know the nature of your bugs or the steps to reproduce.
imho Charlie is the bb guru. i would be curious if he and other users could reproduce your bugs.

2..as to not being able to run asio on bb and thus resorting to win native driver...one thing you might consider is renting for a few days a couple
of usb audio interfaces. i know its a hassle but ive done this before to solve probs and it should be very cheap.
often its just a process of elimination.
as i said ive been running asio in bb with no probs. perhaps some other pg users might chime in who also have no probs useing asio drivers in bb.
ps as a reaps user for yonks since it came out let me say imho bb is a very different animal than reaps.

i love conundrums...my wife and i are nuts for sudoku's and crosswords...lmao.

happiness.

om

"PGM Stem-Splitter and "AI" lyrics generator" I put them in the cupboard with the VideoRealTracks.
I spent my $300+ and it turned into $600AU ! I will hardly use it but if it supports the Plugin development I'll wait yet another year again.....

I will side with this opinion.
P.S. There is actually a bug in the image, I wonder if AI did this as humor...

Buggy AI, I'd say