PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production Where Do You Use Band-in-a-Box In The Audio Production Process?

Where do you use Band-in-a-Box in the audio production process? For this thread I'm limiting audio production to a four step process; pre-production, production, post-production and mastering.

Let's define the four audio production processes below.

Pre-production is everything that happens before recording. Examples may include choosing what song or songs to record, creating charts, selecting what instrumentation to use, song or project arrangement and practice.

Production is creating tracks. That can be by using loops, midi sequences, recording vocals or instruments or whatever else you do to create a track.

Post-production is editing, mixing and adding effects to create a finished song or project.

Mastering is sequencing the songs in a project, balancing songs so all have a similar feel, adding metadata, setting maximum levels to meet the specifications set by the publishing house and shipping the master to the publisher. The publisher could be ReverbNation, Bandlab, this forum, CD Baby, YouTube or something similar.

How do you use Band-in-a-Box in this setting?

Hi Jim,

What an interesting idea for a thread

I use BIAB/RB for creating and arranging, and for obtaining audio and midi material that I can assemble into a song. So with that in mind, my process seems to involve Pre-Production and Production as you have defined the terms. I also use BIAB to notate my songs (which part of the publishing process).

--Noel

This should be a very interesting thread!

My main use for BiaB is in the Pre-production phase. I input my chord progression then I choose what MIDI styles, MIDI tracks, and on occasion RTs/RDs to use. Note that sometimes I will use the RTs' MIDI charts to convert the audio tracks to MIDI tracks in my songs.

Post-production is just generating the tracks.

Everything else like choosing MIDI sound sources, modifying the tracks if needed, adding effects, recording vocals and instruments, etc is done in my DAW.

Note that I don't string songs together so I do no mastering.

I use it in:

• Pre-production for finding the general feel of the song, building a chord progression, and creating a backing track to create vocal to;
• Production as I choose which tracks to keep, and which tracks to replace with other BiaB tracks, and which new BiaB tracks to use.

Production, Post-production and Mastering are all performed mainly in a DAW that isn't BiaB.

Interesting responses so far. I'm glad that others beside me are interested in how Band-in-a-Box is used in the audio production process.

Regarding Marios's comment about Mastering. If you are posting a song, or songs online then some type of mastering is being performed on your files. YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, all have requirements files that must be met to be accepted. Exporting a file in a certain format so it can be accepted by a distributor is mastering.

Thanx for that information Jim. I didn't know that.

There maybe some disagreement with my statements about mastering but I feel for the sake of this discussion they make sense.

Well, I'll agree it is probably the most basic requirement of mastering, with the goal, of course, of making it sound a good as possible in that format, but often it involves mediums other than just MP3, like vinyl, film, broadcast etc.

+1
I use 97.543% real tracks for my work. a Few superMidi Tracks.
I do master using Logics Mastering Assistant and a limited selection of plugins

Since you divided it into 4 stages.....

I use BB in stages one and two.

I write the song and build the structure and arrangement in BB. Then I take the tracks I need into my DAW. It's during this stage that I'm deciding if I want to add tracks that are not native to the style and I use BB to create those and drop them into the project too.

Once I have all the tracks, it's off to the DAW where stages 3 & 4 are completed. The use of BB in those stages is extremely rare. But if I find a certain track is not working or I really want to hear something else in the project that isn't there currently, I will backup to stage 2 to create the new track. But I don't consider that using BB in stage 3 or 4.

That's how I do it.

Very true. Some online services encourage wave submissions, others MP3 or MP4a. Many want the file volume level to meet a certain value or want specific metadata embedded. Even when sharing songs with band mates, family or friends they may prefer receiving audio files in a certain format. But as rharv stated the overall goal of mastering is "making it sound a good as possible in that format".

I find Guitarhacker's statement, "I write the song and build the structure and arrangement in BB" fascinating. Song structure and arrangement are definitely two areas of song composition that Band-in-a-Box supports. I hope Guitarhacker will go into more detail about how he uses Band-in-a-Box while writing a song.

I also hope mrgeeze expands on his comments. His quoting of Mario and declaration about RealTracks and SuperMidiTracks implies he uses Band-in-a-Box in pre-production and production 97.543% of the time. So far he is the lone Mac Band-in-a-Box user to contribute to the thread.

Noel96, Guitarhacker, mrgeeze, dcuny and Mario seem to agree Band-in-a-Box is a tool they use in pre-production and production.

Questions, do you see some of the newer Band-in-a-Box features such as partial track re-generation, the Track View and rebuilt Audio Editor, making pre-production and production easier and more fruitful? Can they play a role in your post production workflow?

The best I can say is that it depends.

Some projects are done entirely in BIAB for certain vanity projects where the client's goal is private distribution to family and friends only—much, much better than commercial karaoke tracks and far less expensive than doing them from scratch. Offering a superior product to these clients at a reasonable price is why I bought BIAB Audiophile all those years ago.

For most projects, BIAB happens after basic tracks are recorded. I then export those tracks into Digital Performer and go from there, sometimes using the BIAB audio, normally quite good, or the MIDI piano rolls and assign my VIs from there. I can no longer use BIAB audio with MIDI in my DAW until BIAB becomes Apple Silicon native, unfortunately. As of 2024, BIAB over Rosetta II no longer plays well with others.

I do not use a separate post production process for audio and never have. Post is for video, film & AV and has been since I started. I never confuse it with Mastering, even if others do.

Mastering all depends on the final medium or media. Broadcast radio, KLOVE (not the same thing!), streaming, Broadcast TV, commercial beds, YouTube, iTunes/AppleMusic Store, CDs, AV etc. each have their own requirements and it's my job to know what they are and Master accordingly as I have been doing over 50 years, now.

No and No.

Personally I think PGM should stop trying to make BiaB into a DAW. I would like to keep BiaB as the backing track generator and bring the entire BiaB structure into RB. RB would become the BiaB DAW and BiaB would be the backing track generator sans any DAW features for those of us whom use DAWs other than RB.

I find working in BiaB other than #1 and #2 extremely frustrating. I can work much faster in my DAW. I know that part of that problem is me.

Personally I would like to see PGM incorporate all of the BiaB features into the VST and make the VST very user friendly. I think that would be a better use of the programmers time.

YMMV

I'm writing songs from set lyrics, and use BiaB for backing tracks. Once I write a song, usually on guitar, I'll use BiaB to generate an arrangement, always starting with a RealStyle. I'll add individual RealTracks if something I want is missing. Added RealTracks are usually something basic like an acoustic guitar or a synth pad. I'll generate all shots and hold in BiaB, but save rests for the DAW. I may partially regenerate a section in BiaB, but have limited success with this feature. (If something's still off I'll either edit in Melodyne or cut and paste from another section of the track.) Anyway, my intent is to have enough instrument choices to mix an interesting backing track in my DAW. I'll use the BiaB VST to import a chord track into my DAW. Then I'm done with BiaB.

Final arrangement, RealTrack FX (when used), vocals and mixing are all in the DAW. Mastering is in Lurssen Mastering Console.

The last new BiaB feature I couldn't live without is RealTracks. Been a while. I keep buying and trying all the new features though.

My poorly-informed recommendation for PGMusic and AI is to train an AI on the BiaB track library and create an integrated approach to accessing the thousands of tracks that are available.

Amen to that!

A second amen to that!

• Pre-production: I noodle on the acoustic or maltreat my keyboard until I come up with an interesting chord progression, which I then put into BIAB, where I play around with different styles and instruments until I find something useful or archive it for later consideration.
• Production: Apart from selecting the BIAB tracks I want to keep, this is mainly done in my DAW, but I switch between BIAB and DAW until everything is the way I want it.

The rest is done exclusively in my DAW, which in my opinion is much better suited for these tasks.

Hi Jim! This is a very interesting question and one reason why I rejoined the BIAB Forums after an 8 year hiatus (AndrewD, AussieAndrew).

Pre-production - I use BIAB even when I have the slightest germ of an idea - I might only have 4 chords and the mumble of a melody with promise, and I've learned years ago to get the idea down as soon as possible. I've had many song ideas in the bathroom or somewhere else and they've gone by the time I walk to my music room. I've even taken to humming or mumble-singing into my phone. In this creative phase, I will input the chords and melody (in BIAB notation) and immediately go looking for a style that I hear in my head - one that at least is useful during the writing phase and almost always Real Style. For me, lyrics usually come last, but before this in 95% of cases, I'll also have a word or phrase that I am mumbling that becomes the working title of the song. Over a period of time, I'll then use BIAB to develop the song musically. At some point, I will make the song 'singable' (even without lyrics completed) because I find I sing melodies different to how I notate them e.g. a pushed note or note outside of the chord e.g. a 2nd, 4th, 6th or 7th. I do some preliminary arrangement in BIAB, including a manually notated soloist part, rests, shots etc. Lyrics usually come to me playing on the guitar. Given I have limited vocal range, BIAB will also help me get the key best for my range - sometimes tricky if I need to play specific guitar chord voicings and avoiding playing up the neck with a capo.

The above process is also why I have only 50 songs recorded but about 150 ideas or partly completed songs e.g. verses looking for a chorus or middle eight; song looking for lyrics.

Production - I output wav files (mono per track, normalised track) then import into a new Cakewalk project. My aim here is to take inspiration from BIAB track but replace it with my own recorded track. I suffer under the weight of avoiding BIAB as a karaoke backing (as good as it is), so anything I can do to put my own creativity to work is what I aim for. All vocals added in Cakewalk.

Post-production - I do most creative arranging, editing and mixing in Cakewalk. All mixing in Cakewalk. I output to mp3.

Publishing - upload mp3 to Soundcloud but mostly import into Clipchamp and compile a video for my Youtube channel.

I might explore whether recording vocals into BIAB might help with my own demo while in the creation phase.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew,

Your post is an example of the information I hoped readers will find useful and informative. Thank you for taking time to think it through and share with us.

It is real easy for an idea to slip away before it can be recorded and fleshed out. I've read that many songwriters carry a pad and pencil in their pocket or purse because they never know when inspiration may strike. Some keep a notepad and pencil beside their bed or next to the toilet (ugh).

I've found a fondness for carrying an old MP3 media player in my pocket. It has a record function with a built-in microphone that works well for capturing melodies or riffs. A friend uses a pocket Dictaphone like students sometimes use to record lectures. Whatever you do, it feels good to capture an idea when it strikes you and it's hot on your mind.

Most of us use a smartphone nowadays. No reason to carry extra gear that I can think of.