Today I wasted a few more hours trying to determine in which areas is BiaB 2025 could be any better than 2024. For me. I do appreciate that for some people some new features could be essential. I just want the basic functionality to be accessible and usable.
I ordered the full downloadable Audiophile update. So all my audio files are now .flac. I decided to keep my old "Drums" and "RealTracks" folders just in case I needed to revert to Audiophile 2024. So I renamed these 2 folders BEFORE installing the full Audiophile 2025. Everything is brand new, but I do not have any .wma or .wav Realtrack accessible to BiaB.
BiaB standalone works. Same old bugs and a bunch of new ones. Perhaps more usable than 2024. No need for pre-rendering is a definitive advantage.
Then I gave an opportunity to the DAW plugin. It simply doesn't work with .flac only files! I cannot put the instructions to render audio into Reaper if audio is in the new format!
I could not believe it. I renamed folders to have my older .wav and .wma files accessible and now DAW plugin works. Much worse than last year. There is zero advantage in the pre-rendering because this functionality is not there. Reverted to 2025 .flac tracks and same thing, does not work. At all. When I click "send to Reaper" it takes moderate time (like normal time to generate all wavs), then it generates "charts" (on the right side), then I get a message saying "There are currently no WAV or MIDI tracks to play. Would you like to generate tracks to play in the plugin?. Then again.
Well, this is when I tick "Use Reaper Instructions". If I also tick "Render Wav and instructions", then it is even funnier. It takes the time to generate the .wav files in folder G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks but when sending to Reaper it starts sending DOZENS of empty tracks (about 3 each second). Each one opening a window asking to also import or not tempo maps. After opening some ~100 tracks and emerging windows, Reaper crashes (Congratulations, this is quite an achievement!).
If I revert to wav + wma it works like last year. Pre-auditioning is unusable (it was usable in 2024 version, I suspect it's an incompatibility with sampling rate but I won't debug it). But rendered files look more or less like last year.
.flac real tracks are properly installed and they work as expected in BiaB standalone (my expectations are not too high). So the problem is not related to installation. In fact the DAW plugin put all the correct audio infomration in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks, which means .flac files were found and used.
To me it looks as if none in PGMusic took the time to test 2025 DAW plugin with the default Audiophile install (.flac, without any WMA or WAV). But I do not care at this point what's the root cause. My fault? Possibly.
Finally I decided to test an alternative method: DAW Plugin Standalone. Again it does not go well with .flac-only files. If I tick to generate "WAV instructions", nothing is generated. If I tick "WAV and instructions" it works, of course it stores new garbage in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks. But (as the plugin) the audio engine does not work well. There are so many clicks, apparently regular (not totally random) distanced some 1/16 notes (I guess the length of audio chunks in BiaB). The rendered files in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks are OK, but the plugin (standalone or accessed through a DAW) is full of such clicks.
My system is rock-solid for ALL of the many audio apps I use (including BiaB standalone and BiaB plugin 2024). Up to >200 tracks in orchestral pieces. No problem mixing a few CPU-heavy synths with some 100 orchestral tracks. But BiaB plugin got my system clicking as hell for the first time in so long time. Again quite an acievement.
For the record, the pluging (inside Reaper) uses the ASIO driver (6.4ms, PCI card) and the "standalone plugin" uses Windows driver at 10ms. Both are perfectly fine for anything I throw inside Reaper (using ASIO) or Windows (most standalone synths in my system are set to use Windows by default).
I think that's too much for me. BiaB 2024 (combined with some scripts to interface Reaper) is good enough to do the job when I need a tool like this. But learning how to use a future BiaB 2025 once the main bugs are solved is not worth the time investment when other tools simply work. Life is too short, I want to make some music in my spare time. If BiaB works for other people, I am happy for them but my experience as an user has been terrible.
That's quite an experience you have been through. After reading your story, there is one thing that is unclear to me. You mention at the beginning that you downloaded the Audiophile update. Does this mean that you downloaded the 30GB of new material that BIAB 2025 has (that the 2024 version of the program did not), or did you download the 610 GB entire Audiophile edition of the program?
If it was the 30GB of new material that you downloaded, I'm guessing that BIAB still needs to access your 2024 Realtracks and Realdrums to work properly. From the sounds of things, these seem to be in a different location.
That's quite an experience you have been through. After reading your story, there is one thing that is unclear to me. You mention at the beginning that you downloaded the Audiophile update. Does this mean that you downloaded the 30GB of new material that BIAB 2025 has (that the 2024 version of the program did not), or did you download the 610 GB entire Audiophile edition of the program?
If it was the 30GB of new material that you downloaded, I'm guessing that BIAB still needs to access your 2024 Realtracks and Realdrums to work properly. From the sounds of things, these seem to be in a different location.
Regards, --Noel
It is the full update ("2025 Audiophile from 2024 Audiophile"), the one listed as $169. Yes, the full 610GB.
You are totally right with your question. I guess that this "flac-only" version triggers the problems and make this case untested. I decided to go for this version because downloading is not a problem for me and for $20 extra I would not need to convert my 2024 WAV files to take full advantage of the new format (smaller size). And install process should be much cleaner installing from a single source.
I’m not disputing anything you have said but I’m unsure of one thing you stated because I went another route with the $199 audiophile SSD. The downloadable full audiophile version was only recently made available after Rustyspoon volunteered to test it. This was not available in beta testing 2025, as you suspected.
It is my understanding from several weeks ago that PG Music had decided to keep the WMA files in the audiophile version. The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive. Then they could connect a USB drive to get Flac files for a final production.
After many questions from us about whether and how to remove the WAV files no longer needed, and/or remove the WMA files if no longer wanted, I don’t know what was sent to you. Could you look inside one of your new RealTracks folders and see if you have both Flac and WMA, or just Flac, and let us know?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I’m not disputing anything you have said but I’m unsure of one thing you stated because I went another route with the $199 audiophile SSD. The downloadable audiophile was only recently made available and was not available in beta testing 2025.
It is my understanding that PG Music had decided to keep the WMA files in the audiophile version. The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive.
After many questions from us about what to do to remove the WAV files no longer needed, and/or remove the WMA files if no longer wanted, I don’t know what was sent to you. Could you look inside one of your new RealTracks folders and see if you have both Flac and WMA, or just Flac, and let us know?
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
If I were a 2025 Audiophile user I'd be concerned what the plugin is using. Perhaps you (or somebody) could test and have a look at the spectrum (.fft) of a song (or single drums track) when using the DAW plugin. Perhaps the plugin is using WMA.
The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive.
I have essentially that set-up. My desktop PC has the full audiophile installation, my laptop for practice has only the .wma files.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Thanks for finding that, I checked my Reaper source files and it's using wma and I have the Audiophile with wma/flac I don't know what the main Biab app is using, it has *.WAV in the path in a frozen SGU so it could also be using wma rather than flac ?
When I use the script to import a frozen SGU I can set it to the file format I want, and it will show in Reaper, but the Plugin don't show the file format:
parapente, Sorry to hear about your issues. I must admit, I never tested Flac only with plugin or RB for that matter. BIAB main program runs fine. I use it almost daily and didn't notice anything of concern as far as Flac goes.
Yeah, I think your experience is unacceptable, but give it a few days. I have seen on a few occasions they released hot fixes in a very timely manner. Let's see what PGM says. Perhaps it's an easy fix. Flac was a major change, I am sure it's in their interest to make things work.
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
I can bring some light to the topic. An "only flac file version" install of Realtracks will not work with both in the BB and in the plugin. This was reported in pre-release and confirmed by PGM as an invalid installation method. (that fix is pending the Holiday break) I use the plugin with .flac files with no issues. The only working installation that works is to install both the .flac and .wma files and more importantly the .db0 and db1 files required to make the entire thing work. If you look in your Realtracks directory for a particular instrument and see only .flac files you have a improper installation. If you have the shipped disk, run the .wma installation on top of your .flac installation and it will fix the problem.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Flac only BIAB works OK for me. I did a clean install of downloadable version. There must be an issue with Plugin + Flac.
You have .flac + .bt files. The .bt file must be there.
There is a just .flac file option in the shipped disk version that only installs .flac and in that case nothing works. This has been confirmed by PGM.
It takes both .flac and .bt files.
I have only .flac + .wma + .bt and the plugin works with .flac.
There is definitely installation errors with the shipped disc version and most likely issues with the minimal number of files in the Real-track directory for the plug-in.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
I can bring some light to the topic. An "only flac file version" install of Realtracks will not work with both in the BB and in the plugin. This was reported in pre-release and confirmed by PGM as an invalid installation method. (that fix is pending the Holiday break) I use the plugin with .flac files with no issues. The only working installation that works is to install both the .flac and .wma files and more importantly the .db0 and db1 files required to make the entire thing work. If you look in your Realtracks directory for a particular instrument and see only .flac files you have a improper installation. If you have the shipped disk, run the .wma installation on top of your .flac installation and it will fix the problem.
I did buy "Audiophile 2024 to 2025", which is supposed to include ALL the contents, ~600GB (not ~30GB). Downloadable. WITHOUT wma or wav. I did not install anything especial. It includes the .flac files and many auxiliary files, not only WAVs or WMAs. I did NOT delete anything from a recommended installation. I did not move anything. In fact this is the reason why I bought this pack ($169) instead of the Audiophile plus pack ($149). To make 100% sure I have a clean, standalone installation with reduced size.
Just in case I just KEPT my old folders in a different location. And it turns out that this is related to the bug. Alpha testing for free. You're welcome.
Please read the post above your post. So between the three of us, we installed it with three different versions/ways My post reflect issues with the shipped disk version which you did not buy.
There is clearly a bug with the plug-in if it does not find at least a .bt .flac and .wma file.
That combination works fine for me on my system.
The developer for the plug-in his on holiday and I’m sure he will address it immediately when returning.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Flac only BIAB works OK for me. I did a clean install of downloadable version. There must be an issue with Plugin + Flac.
You have .flac + .bt files. The .bt file must be there.
There is a just .flac file option in the shipped disk version that only installs .flac and in that case nothing works. This has been confirmed by PGM.
It takes both .flac and .bt files.
I have only .flac + .wma + .bt and the plugin works with .flac.
There is definitely installation errors with the shipped disc version and most likely issues with the minimal number of files in the Real-track directory for the plug-in.
Interesting point. I checked to see what I have in my Realtracks. I do have .flac and .bt1 files in many folders. "Holds" folders also have .bt0 and other extensions. In my case, with everything installed as it comes from PGM (without wma) it does not work.
Apparently the download version works exactly as the option you describe (.flac file option). It is the simplest explanation for me. Which leaves me wondering if the plugin ever worked with flac.
Apparently not with the Downloadable only versions. Good catch and I’m sure the developer will fix it immediately upon returning.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Please read the post above your post. So between the three of us, we installed it with three different versions/ways My post reflect issues with the shipped disk version which you did not buy.
There is clearly a bug with the plug-in if it does not find at least a .bt .flac and .wma file.
That combination works fine for me on my system.
The developer for the plug-in his on holiday and I’m sure he will address it immediately when returning.
Yes, I read it, I was answering items one by one. So I think there is some consensus about a bug. And the possible mitigation is to use .bt (and other files depending on folders) plus .flac and .wma.
I could move all my old .wma files carefully to the same folders and try, but it is time consuming (especially if I want NOT to include the .wav files). Could you please try to find if when using the plugin the rendered wavs are using .wma or .flac waveforms? I suspect from musocity's comments that the plugin is simply using .wma.
This Flac issue seems to affect Plugin only. BIAB works fine. I had been using Flac only (no wma) BIAB for almost 2 weeks now. Again, regardless if you bought the Audiophile hard drive, downloaded partial Flac (yearly portion) or downloaded whole Audiophile Flac versions and no matter which installation option you chose, BIAB should work without issues. The problem is with Flac only + Plugin combination.
Please read the post above your post. So between the three of us, we installed it with three different versions/ways My post reflect issues with the shipped disk version which you did not buy.
There is clearly a bug with the plug-in if it does not find at least a .bt .flac and .wma file.
That combination works fine for me on my system.
The developer for the plug-in his on holiday and I’m sure he will address it immediately when returning.
Yes, I read it, I was answering items one by one. So I think there is some consensus about a bug. And the possible mitigation is to use .bt (and other files depending on folders) plus .flac and .wma.
I could move all my old .wma files carefully to the same folders and try, but it is time consuming (especially if I want NOT to include the .wav files). Could you please try to find if when using the plugin the rendered wavs are using .wma or .flac waveforms? I suspect from musocity's comments that the plugin is simply using .wma.
I would wait. He will be back around first of the year. It sounds better than wma, but I could be wrong. I will look around but not clear how to detect source file as the algorithm uses the files in this order. 1) wave 2) flac 3) wma. When drug into a DAW it the plugin renders wav files from the source files. One thing I forgot to mention is the plugin directory paths to audio files for the plugin is not updated automatically nor does it sync with the BB settings and has to be manually set (preferences) to your audiophile directories.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
1) This Flac issue seems to affect Plugin only. BIAB works fine. 2) Again, regardless if you bought the Audiophile hard drive, downloaded partial Flac (yearly portion) or downloaded whole Audiophile Flac versions and no matter which installation option you chose, BIAB should work without issues. The problem is with Flac only + Plugin combination.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
1) yes 2) yes
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Developers are off for a few days, but hopefully the following helps:
To be clear, this issue described above (FLAC-only issues when using plugin) doesn’t affect the 2025 biab program or RealBand at all. And doesn’t affect the 2025 physical audiophile (on the SDD in any case, including plugin)
It is just affecting someone doing all of these 1. using the plugin 2. who also has done a complete 600 GB flac-only download of the audiophile and 3. In the plugin. Doesn’t want .wav generated so de-selects “use wav and instructions” (or uses reaper instructions)
We plan a patch for the plugin so this specific case above works (using plugin+FLAC-only+ no wav generation ). That plugin patch will insure FLAC is used in all cases including when wavs aren’t generated ( wav instructions and reaper instructions)
In the meantime, someone with that situation above (e.g. the OP) can either skip using the plugin for a week or so until the patch is released, or use the plugin, but leave checked “x use wav and instructions”. A rough guess is there are less than 5 people possible to see a bug like this, since a 600 GB download of the audiophile is something quite new, and it won’t be an issue for the plugin when the plugin patch is released in a week.
If using plugin with Reaper instructions, the plugin is filling in .wma in the instructions instead of .flac, so that you would be hearing the .wma when reaper plays those instructions. That will also be addressed in the plugin patch, and only applies to the plugin+ReaperInstructions. Other DAWS are fine since the .wav file generated uses the .flac, it’s just the special case of the reaper instructions that need this fix.
This Flac issue seems to affect Plugin only. BIAB works fine. I had been using Flac only (no wma) BIAB for almost 2 weeks now. Again, regardless if you bought the Audiophile hard drive, downloaded partial Flac (yearly portion) or downloaded whole Audiophile Flac versions and no matter which installation option you chose, BIAB should work without issues. The problem is with Flac only + Plugin combination.
If using plugin with Reaper instructions, the plugin is filling in .wma in the instructions instead of .flac, so that you would be hearing the .wma when reaper plays those instructions. That will also be addressed in the plugin patch, and only applies to the plugin+ReaperInstructions. Other DAWS are fine since the .wav file generated uses the .flac, it’s just the special case of the reaper instructions that need this fix.
Developers are off for a few days, but hopefully the following helps:
To be clear, this issue described above (FLAC-only issues when using plugin) doesn’t affect the 2025 biab program or RealBand at all. And doesn’t affect the 2025 physical audiophile (on the SDD in any case, including plugin)
It is just affecting someone doing all of these 1. using the plugin 2. who also has done a complete 600 GB flac-only download of the audiophile and 3. In the plugin. Doesn’t want .wav generated so de-selects “use wav and instructions” (or uses reaper instructions) .............
Small correction to #3: The plugin fails always with the "only .flac" option (with all the extra files but no .wma or .wav). It fails with different symptoms. Doing nothing or opening dozens of tracks and ultimately crashing Reaper.
Well, the good part is it was acknowledged and express fix promised.
If I am not mistaken, Audiofile included in the past a downloadable version of Ultra Pack equivalent. With your Internet, should be a fast dl. You can rename Flac RT/RD folders and install U.pack and use it until patch arrives.
Well, the good part is it was acknowledged and express fix promised.
If I am not mistaken, Audiofile included in the past a downloadable version of Ultra Pack equivalent. With your Internet, should be a fast dl. You can rename Flac RT/RD folders and install U.pack and use it until patch arrives.
Originally Posted by jpettit
Originally Posted by parapente
Originally Posted by jpettit
Please read the post above your post. So between the three of us, we installed it with three different versions/ways My post reflect issues with the shipped disk version which you did not buy.
There is clearly a bug with the plug-in if it does not find at least a .bt .flac and .wma file.
That combination works fine for me on my system.
The developer for the plug-in his on holiday and I’m sure he will address it immediately when returning.
Yes, I read it, I was answering items one by one. So I think there is some consensus about a bug. And the possible mitigation is to use .bt (and other files depending on folders) plus .flac and .wma.
I could move all my old .wma files carefully to the same folders and try, but it is time consuming (especially if I want NOT to include the .wav files). Could you please try to find if when using the plugin the rendered wavs are using .wma or .flac waveforms? I suspect from musocity's comments that the plugin is simply using .wma.
(1) I would wait. He will be back around first of the year. It sounds better than wma, but I could be wrong. I will look around but not clear how to detect source file as the algorithm uses the files in this order. 1) wave 2) flac 3) wma. When drug into a DAW it the plugin renders wav files from the source files. One thing I forgot to mention is the plugin directory paths to audio files for the plugin is not updated automatically nor does it sync with the BB settings and has to be manually set (preferences) to your audiophile directories.
(1)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
This is a very interesting thread parapente, jpettit, Rustyspoon#, Matt and musocity. It is well worth reading for all the valuable information that it contains. I appreciate all that I learnt from going through this --Noel
This is a very interesting thread parapente, jpettit, Rustyspoon#, Matt and musocity. It is well worth reading for all the valuable information that it contains. I appreciate all that I learnt from going through this --Noel
Same here as I've been following.
An addendum that certainly should be picked up anyway by PGM, is that the downloaded PlusPAK also does not include the .wma files for (most of?) the new content.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
...An addendum that certainly should be picked up anyway by PGM, is that the downloaded PlusPAK also does not include the .wma files for (most of?) the new content.
I guess this type of situation can occur when a completely new format is put into the market before really adequate testing can be completed.
It should get sorted out soon, but it would be better if such potential issues could have been picked up before the new product was released.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
This Flac issue seems to affect Plugin only. BIAB works fine. I had been using Flac only (no wma) BIAB for almost 2 weeks now. Again, regardless if you bought the Audiophile hard drive, downloaded partial Flac (yearly portion) or downloaded whole Audiophile Flac versions and no matter which installation option you chose, BIAB should work without issues. The problem is with Flac only + Plugin combination.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
At the same time, Rusty's experiment was a real success, and since he doesn't use the plugin, the error could not have been detected...
...An addendum that certainly should be picked up anyway by PGM, is that the downloaded PlusPAK also does not include the .wma files for (most of?) the new content.
I guess this type of situation can occur when a completely new format is put into the market before really adequate testing can be completed.
It should get sorted out soon, but it would be better if such potential issues could have been picked up before the new product was released.
The type of situation shouldn't occur, of course, but the real world, deadlines, oversights and so on mean that it can and does happen. It does demonstrate the complexity of testing when one has to consider a number of different variables and their permutations. The nuber of things to test can go sky high. At least BiaB and the plugin are unlikely to kill anyone. Anyone tried the same thing with RB? I suspect that's OK, but...
I have some sympathy with them, even though lots of the complexity is self-inflicted.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
...I have some sympathy with them, even though lots of the complexity is self-inflicted.
My sentiments also. Avoidable problems? Yes, probably, but that would require a stronger and more elaborate testing regime.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
The type of situation shouldn't occur, of course, but the real world, deadlines, oversights and so on mean that it can and does happen. It does demonstrate the complexity of testing when one has to consider a number of different variables and their permutations. The nuber of things to test can go sky high. At least BiaB and the plugin are unlikely to kill anyone. Anyone tried the same thing with RB? I suspect that's OK, but...
I have some sympathy with them, even though lots of the complexity is self-inflicted.
In addition to what you've said, Gordon, I'd also like to point out that the PG Music team worked tirelessly throughout beta testing. I honestly don't know when they got to sleep.
At the end of the day, everyone is human and being human means that there is always an "in hindsight" component to everything that is done. None of us see with absolute clarity until we look at things in review. That's why the lessons learned from debriefs are so important. Sometimes, for whatever reason, it is easy to overlook things (even things that some might think are obvious).
Just recently, a person on this forum asked about using the Juke Box with the MIDI Melodist. Most BIAB users have probably not engaged this option in the Melodist dialogue window. I knew where to find it, but it was the first time that I had used it. It turns out that in migrating the Melodist to the MultiPicker Library (MPL), something happened that stopped the Juke Box in the non-MPL window from working. I'm sure that PG Music didn't break this feature, nor leave it broken on purpose. It wasn't until this particular user, for whom the Juke Box feature in the Melodist is an important creative tool, tested it and discovered it wasn't working properly, that the problem was discovered. None of the beta testers, including me, discovered this even though a great deal of effort went into beta testing.
None of the beta testers, including me, discovered this even though a great deal of effort went into beta testing.
I have no doubt and this particular issue is one that it's easy to see can slip through without being noticed. I wouldn't pretend similar has never happened to me, because it certainly has!
I commented somewhere else recently about programs that sanity-check their own behaviour, saying that I had a bit of a love/hate relationship with the principle. Love because it can trap mistakes, corruptions, aggressors; hate becasue every line of sanity checking has itself the potential to cause a problem. Mistakes, corruptions and aggression can happen to them, too.
It's tough getting the balance right, particularly when the risk of problems rises as an exponent of the amount of code.
That is, though, one of the reasons I think the applications would benefit from fewer new bits and better rationalisation of what already exists. Exponents can be scary things.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
...At the same time, Rusty's experiment was a real success, and since he doesn't use the plugin, the error could not have been detected...
Yes Biab users need to help develop the Plugin more, they should not knock things just because Reaper is mentioned, but look into these things mentioned, try them out, learn from them to help improve PG products for the future. If you use the Plugin in Reaper you can use any audio format you like as I have shown, flac is nothing new. As I said get rid of the wma for m4a and you will now have a crossplatform audio format flac-m4a for Win & Mac. By trying it with Reaper it has now developed into a play direct Plugin, this allows now for it to be developed further to give non destructive editing in ANY DAW. not to mention a Live Arranger !
...At the same time, Rusty's experiment was a real success, and since he doesn't use the plugin, the error could not have been detected...
Yes Biab users need to help develop the Plugin more, they should not knock things just because Reaper is mentioned, but look into these things mentioned, try them out, learn from them to help improve PG products for the future. If you use the Plugin in Reaper you can use any audio format you like as I have shown, flac is nothing new. As I said get rid of the wma for m4a and you will now have a crossplatform audio format flac-m4a for Win & Mac. By trying it with Reaper it has now developed into a play direct Plugin, this allows now for it to be developed further to give non destructive editing in ANY DAW. not to mention a Live Arranger !
By "Live Arranger" do you mean that I could load up a style (or any combo or RTs, RDs, and MIDI tracks), and route a MIDI track to the plugin, or play chords from a MIDI keyboard, and have it play those chords in realtime?
It's extremely frustrating that the plugin does not have any documentation!
Band-in-a-Box 2024. Custom Build Desktop PC W/ Windows 10 Home 64-bit. CPU: Intel Core i5-9600k @ 3.7GHz (6 core x 6 threads) RAM: 16GB DDR4. Storage 238GB SSD + 2.7 TB HDD. GPU: ZOTAC NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB
You can try it in Reaper, in the Plugin In Preferences>Rendering disable "Generate Audio for Midi.." and disable "Generate Style Mix" and use WAV instructions only, in Reaper enable smooth seek.
You can try it in Reaper, in the Plugin In Preferences>Rendering disable "Generate Audio for Midi.." and disable "Generate Style Mix" and use WAV instructions only, in Reaper enable smooth seek.
I don't understand. How are you routing this? Where is the MIDI coming from?
Band-in-a-Box 2024. Custom Build Desktop PC W/ Windows 10 Home 64-bit. CPU: Intel Core i5-9600k @ 3.7GHz (6 core x 6 threads) RAM: 16GB DDR4. Storage 238GB SSD + 2.7 TB HDD. GPU: ZOTAC NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB
You can try if if you don't mind a challenge or just wait for PG to put a midi chord detection element in the Plugin Standalone (just like Biab Window>MIDI Chord Detection). It's just a proof of concept example. Just another example of using Reaper (that many complain about) to improve PG products.
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
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