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Hi all, this thread is for discussion of any User Interface enhancements you would like to see. This can be anything related to the graphical interface for Band-in-a-Box, hotkeys and accessibility, menus, etc.
Please be specific with your discussion - you might want to suggest "make it look better", but please explain how you might make it look better.
Also, please keep all discussion polite and on topic.
I work here
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I am glad you asked. Does this mean PGM is willing to spend time/money on User experience/workflow? I will start with a bulletized list. (mockup examples picture available if you have questions) This is the number one thing PGM could do to win new customers. General foundation: - Dark mode (BB is killing my eyes)
- Design around core functions (Chords View, Track View, MIDI View, Score View, Library (Browser)
- Graphics that look sharp on resolutions of HD to 2k (graphics are too low resolution and are fuzzy on High DPI systems)
- Support High DPI scaling mode)
- User experience where they only have what they use, and when they need it on the screen.
- 100% consistency of all mouse and global attributes
Panels: (open from sides, top or bottom that update data associate with the main window in real time, no OK buttons needed) - Panels for most current floating windows and most drill down context dialogs accessible via chord view context menus.
- Combine mixer and track view panels into one comprehensive arranger view that allows editing and mixing from one view.
- Panels can dock or floated (on any screen) and are resizable.
Consistent key modifier behaviors: - Identical, hotkeys for pan, zoom and scroll across all views.
- User definable hotkey
Context Menus: - The only options are what can you do with where your cursor was when the context menu was opened.
- Context Menu are in workflow first order (from here you want to do A, B or C 80% of the time) universal copy paste action at bottom.
- Smart Context menu that have a recently selected order
- All Editing context menus, (currently available in the Audio Edit view), available for each track in the Track view.
- Context menu rules:
-- What actions can I take with the object my cursor is on?
-- What can I drill down on?
-- All else goes away (because it is not In Context)
Toolbars: - Toolbar 100% user definable so that it only has the buttons for the things I use.
- No redundant radio buttons
Drag and Drop: - Drag multiple tracks to DAW
- Drag Track order
Transport: - Move Transport to the bottom to give more room for a rewind to start and overview navigator
- Buttons that visually show the state as in engage or not
- Rewind to Start Button-
- Now time (current bar/beat)
- Loop associated with timeline toggle on and off for all views.
Timeline: - Consistent across all views
- Has Chords on timeline that can be editable inline.
- Global Snap that toggle on or off (snap resolution options)
Cursor: - Consistent across all views
- Supports:
-- Starts from where it is at (exact time)
-- Starts from where it is at (first of Bar)
-- Starts from start marker
Looping: - A highlighted region in timeline consistent across all views
- Global across all views
- Start and End are global
- Toggle on and off
Tracks (Track view+ Mixer): - Only show tracks that have data.
- Context menu to add a tracks type
-- RT
-- RD
-- MST
-- MIDI
-- User
-- Audio
Source: 90% from public workflow video posted over a year ago and private suggestions to PGM.Workflow video (focus on consistency and global behaviors that go with changes to UI) WELL WORTH WATCH FOR THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THE TOPIC OF USER EXPERINCE. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=792013#Post792013
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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While facelift would make program prettier, I strongly believe it has to be done holistically. Both design and workflow have to go hand in hand. There have been quite a few excellent suggestions recently and I am sure this will be an interesting discussion. I will start at less obvious suggestions. *Radio Bar - removed or made optional. Definitely hidden on default installation. *Usable "Timeline" Navigator across most views. I made a short video showing why I believe navigator should be re-thinked:
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Enhancement for the Interface:
An instant access and placement button for RealTrack - RT#1152-Silence available in every view: Chord Sheet, Live View, etc.
Insertion would be determined by highlighting a selection of bars or a region. Once a area is highlighted, clicking the RT#1152 button inserts the silence RT.
There are currently 4,099 RealTracks. RT#1152-Silence is uniquely different from every other RealTrack and is specific for use with the BIAB Flagship program to interface with the algorithm in selecting RealTrack data from the RealTrack instruments folder and directly influences audio generation.
Years ago in a post discussion, I recall we were told that RT#1152 was the preferred way to mute a RealTrack in the Chord Sheet over the usual method of Bar Settings (F5) as it was noted RT#1152 is 'seen' by the algorithm as a RealTrack and that by 'reading ahead', it influenced the data the Algorithm selects prior to rendering whereas using Bar Settings is post-generation material with no information that any change in the Chord Sheet or instrument that could be beneficial to the data selection was provided to the algorithm.
This process created "smooth transitions" which was a critical improvement at the time due to there far fewer RealTracks and RT data so there was a constant issue with abrupt intros, endings and instrument changes. Using RT#1152 practically eliminated the issue.
RT#1152 is still used extensively in MultiStyles and the RT Medley Maker and is quite useful even today to manually insert into a RealTrack track.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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While facelift would make program prettier, I strongly believe it has to be done holistically. Both design and workflow have to go hand in hand. There have been quite a few excellent suggestions recently and I am sure this will be an interesting discussion. I will start at less obvious suggestions. *Radio Bar - removed or made optional. Definitely hidden on default installation. *Usable "Timeline" Navigator across most views. I made a short video showing why I believe navigator should be re-thinked: Plus one for the *Usable "Timeline" Navigator across most views concept. The current solution from Misha and Robertw of a slider in a minimalistic, linear project seems insufficient for more complex projects and may need further refinement. I've attached a screen shot of an existing PG Music MultiStyle demo with 3 Choruses of a 128 bar chord sheet that demonstrates the need to also be able to differentiate between multiple choruses and identify the bar and chorus location (ie: bar 19-Chorus 3 in the screen shot) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29934&filename=Navigation Timeline Bar.jpg) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29935&filename=Navigation in a multi chorus project.jpg)
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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New UI design should consider for multiple monitors.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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There are some good suggestions here and user inputs are quite valuable BUT it would be much better if PGM hired/contracted a team of GUI professionals to guide this process rather than using random ideas and Photoshop mock-ups from users.
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There are some good suggestions here and user inputs are quite valuable BUT it would be much better if PGM hired/contracted a team of GUI professionals to guide this process rather than using random ideas and Photoshop mock-ups from users. Yes, I absolutely agree.
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Here are four suggestions that will make the Embedded Audio Mixer interface more user friendly and thus make the Embedded Audio Mixer easier to use. - Find someway to display all the track column labels when the Embedded Audio Mixer is displayed at its default width. Presently only the track column labels of Volume, Pan and Reverb are displayed while the Tone column label is not displayed.
- Have the four track column labels automatically align to the center of each track column. Presently each track column label is left aligned.
- Have each track column the same width. At the default embedded audio mixer width, the Volume column is the most wide with each column width progressively more narrow. This leaves the Tone column with no width at all. Expanding the Audio Mixer width by dragging the left side to the left progressively expands the width of each column. But the Volume column remains the widest column and the Tone column the most narrow column.
- Swap the order of the Reverb and Tone track columns. Presently the four columns are Volume, Pan, Reverb and Tone. I'm suggesting the order of the four columns become Volume, Pan, Tone and Reverb. I've found using track Tone controls effectively equalize track tone so tracks can blend together without having to resort to plugins. The current column order makes using the Tone control harder than it should.
![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29939&filename=Clipboard01.jpg)
Last edited by Jim Fogle; 01/16/25 12:32 PM.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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The volume fader's width may be wider (longer) than the other columns because it is likely configured to be logarithmic like most audio mixers and the longer length allows changes in position to be more precise the longer it is. For instance, on a hardware Mixer unit, 100mm throw is better than 60mm which is more than precise than a 40mm fader. Most software DAWs also have logarithmic volume faders aligning with standard audio engineering practices.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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If PGM is serious about design, perhaps a widely member supported request for standard vertical mixer should be considered.
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Track View: Play marker that defines the playback start point. Volume node editing (automation) Track headers to include a minimum of: ARM - for audio recording FX, PAN Also, I find current track zooming a bit challenging, especially using mouse. Both Auto zoom and individual track expansion should be in place similar to:
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my suggestions Simon....
1..keep the gui simple as far as possible..(kiss concept...not overly busy) because i worry about new users who might be turned off by a too busy gui and walk away.
(yes i know its a challenge.)
reason being today we have become a 'gimme now' society so often apps with tons of features its a challenge for any dev to satisfy 'gimme now'.
(some people also wont read manuals...another developer challenge.)
2..maybe lessons can be learnt from an analogy....lol..
i knew once this great cafe in london with great grub...highly popular but it needed a makeover as some people werent going into it. it was a a 'workers caf'.
so the owner did a great new 'storefront' ...however some people still didnt go into it because it was the same inside.
conclusion...and imho...its ok to have a new gui (storefront) however also i feel ideally bb menus and dialogs etc etc and various user displays ie anything the user interracts with needs consideration ALSO...so like the cafe people dont get past the fancy new gui only to walk out.
frankly Simon i dont envy you guys...its a tremendous task imho for any developer
to renovate a legacy app. we often failed in industry.
huge kudos if you pull it off...very difficult to keep every user happy.
3..please consider us vision impaired in any redesign Simon.
4..one aspect i like about the bb vst plugin/standalone even though i dont use it is its not overly 'flashy'. so...when it comes to a new gui i would suggest not 'over the top'. what puts me off some music apps is too much 'flash'...ie as one person said to me once 'its not a video game' when we tried certain things.
i'll post some more ideas as i think of them.
oh i forgot...if some user screen commonality tween bb and rb could be implemented this might help new users in the learning cycle ??
hth/happiness.
om (ex developer and lousy programmer...)
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/16/25 05:54 PM.
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I see lots of good ideas being put forward but not seeing whether considerations as to should more than one screen be considered.
Keith
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Keith,
at least three (likely four) people in this thread want multi monitor support.
Vincente: "New UI design should consider for multiple monitors."
In the links, user robertw posted, multi monitor support is discussed.
+1 from me
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Keith,
at least three (likely four) people in this thread want multi monitor support.
Vincente: "New UI design should consider for multiple monitors."
In the links, user robertw posted, multi monitor support is discussed.
+1 from me I mentioned it in my list. Undocking panels is relatively easy as part of the design. Making the panels work and play well together on a laptop screen is harder, especially if text is sizable for vison impaired. I am still waiting for PGM to answer my first question before putting more time into it.
Last edited by jpettit; 01/16/25 10:30 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Product Manager
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I am glad you asked. Does this mean PGM is willing to spend time/money on User experience/workflow? UI, UX, and workflow are a big focus for us right now. I will start with a bulletized list. Excellent list. I agree with most of your points - not going to comment on each, but overall two thumbs up from me. While facelift would make program prettier, I strongly believe it has to be done holistically. Both design and workflow have to go hand in hand. There have been quite a few excellent suggestions recently and I am sure this will be an interesting discussion. I will start at less obvious suggestions.
*Radio Bar - removed or made optional. Definitely hidden on default installation.
*Usable "Timeline" Navigator across most views. Yes. We're going to work on both looks and interface functionality with a focus on workflow. I also support removing the radio bar and updating the timeline. Enhancement for the Interface:
An instant access and placement button for RealTrack - RT#1152-Silence available in every view: Chord Sheet, Live View, etc.
Insertion would be determined by highlighting a selection of bars or a region. Once a area is highlighted, clicking the RT#1152 button inserts the silence RT. Interesting suggestion, though useful. I'll discuss it with the others. New UI design should consider for multiple monitors. Yes, of course. Your posts were the inspiration for our recent meeting on the subject and this forum thread. I particularly like the idea of consolidating and updating the preferences window. Here are four suggestions that will make the Embedded Audio Mixer interface more user friendly and thus make the Embedded Audio Mixer easier to use... I agree. I use the tone control a lot more than the reverb control, and I also dislike how the 4 faders resize disproportionately. If PGM is serious about design, perhaps a widely member supported request for standard vertical mixer should be considered. Definitely. Track View:
Play marker that defines the playback start point.
Volume node editing (automation)
Track headers to include a minimum of:
ARM - for audio recording
FX, PAN
Also, I find current track zooming a bit challenging, especially using mouse. Both Auto zoom and individual track expansion should be in place similar to: *video* Definitely, especially volume automation and track headers. Absolutely. I want to keep things simple, and I think the rest of us do too. I also personally want to consider accessibility, which leans away from being "flashy". Undocking panels is relatively easy as part of the design. Making the panels work and play well together on a laptop screen is harder, especially if text is sizable for vison impaired. I quite like this idea, and it's similar to what I've been imagining over the years. I am still waiting for PGM to answer my first question before putting more time into it. Answered 
I work here
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No 255 bars limited. Make it becomes history
Last edited by Vincente; 01/17/25 08:26 AM.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,087
Veteran
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I am glad you asked. Does this mean PGM is willing to spend time/money on User experience/workflow? UI, UX, and workflow are a big focus for us right now. I will start with a bulletized list. Excellent list. I agree with most of your points - not going to comment on each, but overall two thumbs up from me. While facelift would make program prettier, I strongly believe it has to be done holistically. Both design and workflow have to go hand in hand. There have been quite a few excellent suggestions recently and I am sure this will be an interesting discussion. I will start at less obvious suggestions.
*Radio Bar - removed or made optional. Definitely hidden on default installation.
*Usable "Timeline" Navigator across most views. Yes. We're going to work on both looks and interface functionality with a focus on workflow. I also support removing the radio bar and updating the timeline. Enhancement for the Interface:
An instant access and placement button for RealTrack - RT#1152-Silence available in every view: Chord Sheet, Live View, etc.
Insertion would be determined by highlighting a selection of bars or a region. Once a area is highlighted, clicking the RT#1152 button inserts the silence RT. Interesting suggestion, though useful. I'll discuss it with the others. New UI design should consider for multiple monitors. Yes, of course. Your posts were the inspiration for our recent meeting on the subject and this forum thread. I particularly like the idea of consolidating and updating the preferences window. Here are four suggestions that will make the Embedded Audio Mixer interface more user friendly and thus make the Embedded Audio Mixer easier to use... I agree. I use the tone control a lot more than the reverb control, and I also dislike how the 4 faders resize disproportionately. If PGM is serious about design, perhaps a widely member supported request for standard vertical mixer should be considered. Definitely. Track View:
Play marker that defines the playback start point.
Volume node editing (automation)
Track headers to include a minimum of:
ARM - for audio recording
FX, PAN
Also, I find current track zooming a bit challenging, especially using mouse. Both Auto zoom and individual track expansion should be in place similar to: *video* Definitely, especially volume automation and track headers. Absolutely. I want to keep things simple, and I think the rest of us do too. I also personally want to consider accessibility, which leans away from being "flashy". Undocking panels is relatively easy as part of the design. Making the panels work and play well together on a laptop screen is harder, especially if text is sizable for vison impaired. I quite like this idea, and it's similar to what I've been imagining over the years. I am still waiting for PGM to answer my first question before putting more time into it. Answered Excellent! Mockups take time and never really hit the mark of what you can and cannot do. There have been some excellent mockup lately, but please let us know where you need more clarity. I'm glad you see re-imagining the User Experience and workflow as the same thing. Sometimes it might be a graphical improvement and other times it might be a mouse improvement or consistent behavior across views.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are as follows:
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Thank you!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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