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Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet #839911 01/22/25 12:31 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 7,367 Victoria, BC Andrew - PG Music OP PG Music Staff
OP Andrew - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: May 2002 Posts: 7,367 Victoria, BC	This thread is for suggestions regarding the Chord Sheet view. This is for specific suggestions only, not general comments. There are a few ideas extracted from the main user interface enhancements thread robertw: I think the Chords Timeline work great, but I would like to see perhaps, text to show 1 verse, 2,verse, etc... as well as where you have some kind of action, like Fills, Push/Hold, etc... Maybe R1, R2, R3 for the Repeat signs, and a "F", "P", "H" and for more than 1 action in a bar "$" (used a dollar sign, could be whatever works best). <chords_timeline> Matt Finley: One area not mentioned yet is the basic format of the Chordsheet. There have been good suggestions made in recent years about organizing a cell differently, so each measure has four clearly defined subdividable beats (and more or fewer beats per measure if other time signatures are implemented), so that microchords are made more straightforward and the whole idea of commas is eliminated. Andrew PG Music Inc.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #839960 01/22/25 08:05 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by Andrew - PG Music This thread is for suggestions regarding the Chord Sheet view. This is for specific suggestions only, not general comments. There are a few ideas extracted from the main user interface enhancements thread 1) robertw: I think the Chords Timeline work great, but I would like to see perhaps, text to show 1 verse, 2,verse, etc... 2) as well as where you have some kind of action, like Fills, Push/Hold, etc... 3) Maybe R1, R2, R3 for the Repeat signs, 4) and a "F", "P", "H" and for more than 1 action in a bar "$" (used a dollar sign, could be whatever works best). <chords_timeline> Matt Finley: One area not mentioned yet is the basic format of the Chordsheet. There have been good suggestions made in recent years about organizing a cell differently, 5) so each measure has four clearly defined subdividable beats 6) (and more or fewer beats per measure if other time signatures are implemented), 7) so that microchords are made more straightforward and the whole idea of commas is eliminated. 1) +1 on what is called an arranger track in other DAWS. Make it easier to show flow. So, is this more than labels? 2) +1 Charlie also suggested this with ability to show changes in RTs. This adds fodder to the idea of an arranger track. 3) -1 I am OK with standard notation repeat signs. There is a whole other thread on repeat because in general they tend not to work well. 4) Don't understand. I fear an alphabet soup with decoder ring to cramp hidden meaning in. Like the idea of an arranger track to call things out clearer. 5) +1 yes, I would like to see zoom expand the bar out to see all beats in a bar. 6) Yes, see above 7) yes, see above. Micro chords need to become part of the chord view. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840004 01/22/25 11:09 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	If you have 4/4 or any other time signature and you need a bar with different number of beats... Currently, when you edit a specific bar through Bar Settings and set amount of beats for that bar, it changes all of the bars that follow the one being changed in Chord View. It should only change that specific bar, leaving all the following bars time signature(s) intact.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840016 01/22/25 12:55 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Why design all views independently, forcing the user to choose between the ‘Chords’ view OR the ‘Tracks’ view? Wouldn't be much better if we had a main screen where the user could simultaneously see all the most important views (chords, tracks, lyrics, sections, the whole song's structure...) and edit any of them from a single place? Take a look, for example, at Song Master Pro, is a beautiful example of how different views can be integrated in a single screen in a really intuitive way: First, you always have a view of the whole song structure, you can navigate to the different parts directly from there, and you can also zoom in/out directly from there: Then, you have different "Tracks" (Views) that you can show / hide as you wish. No need to see the "Sections" or the "Lyrics" track? No problem, just hide them: Want to use the mixer or any other tool? Just click on the tiny icons at the top right to show / hide the tools / browser panels: Last edited by Cerio; 01/23/25 04:53 AM. Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840017 01/22/25 12:56 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Want to add / edit / delete / copy / paste a chord? You can do it from the main screen (in general, you can edit any element from the main screen just by clicking on it) You can also move chords directly from the main screen, just by draggin them. Note that the chords will move accordingly to the snap setting, so it's possible to insert up to 16 chords per bar from here (no need to use commas, carets, or that counterintuitive "Micro chords" feature) Want to loop a section? Use the standard and super intuitive method you're used to: Want to see just the whole chord sheet? No problem, juts click on the apropriate icon. And yes, you still can edit most elements (chords, lyrics, notes...) also from this view just by clicking on them: It's all about flexibility, modularity and coherency between the different views. Last edited by Cerio; 01/23/25 04:55 AM. Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840020 01/22/25 01:10 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418 S shlind Journeyman
shlind Journeyman S Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418	Yes/ +1

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840023 01/22/25 01:24 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	I like Cerio's points. This conversation was breached slightly in many of the previous threads in the last week. Which puts emphasis on a serious improvement of the Track view. Add a decent chord area with bigger editable chords. Add an Arrangement Track the show the parts of the song. I guess another point I'd like to leave PGM with is, all of these discussions have been implemented in other music software tools. Spend more time analyzing what you like about those tools to see if it's easy to do in BIAB. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840029 01/22/25 01:32 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	I like the concept, and looks very pretty... While I agree that inline chord entry is beneficial in some places, to insert something "fast". +1 to have it as a timeline option... However I love chord sheet layout. I find it very useful and easy to work with. Sure, it needs several improvements, but it is indispensable. Also, some people use that for practice, following chords - which would be not intuitive at all with inline strip.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Rustyspoon# #840037 01/22/25 02:05 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Originally Posted by Rustyspoon# However I love chord sheet layout. I find it very useful and easy to work with. Sure, it needs several improvements, but it is indispensable. Also, some people use that for practice, following chords - which would be not intuitive at all with inline strip. The integrated view and the chord view do not have to be incompatible (see last image of my post) Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840042 01/22/25 02:51 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	I get it, but I like the cell view better (than over notation) Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of inline chord entry/edit, but in other views. Cerio, great visual presentation BTW. If PGM adopts some of these ideas, it could finally be a breakthrough for many of us and way forward for future users.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840055 01/22/25 04:14 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,852 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,852 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I am reminded of the statement by an older Supreme Court, rephrased to say “ I can’t define good design but I know it when I see it”. At some point we might find it useful to cite other software and what specifically we like about its design. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840076 01/22/25 07:02 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Micro chords Reimagined Beats match Time Signature/Feel Resolution defaults to beats Beat marks only show on current selected bar Context Menu: - 1/8 - 1/16 -Triplet - Insert Rest - Insert Motif - Add Drum Fill - Shot - Hold - Exclusion Popup (drop down list) Last edited by jpettit; 01/22/25 07:11 PM. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840164 01/23/25 09:32 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Well, I must have blown people's minds being so obvious with my "Micro" chord's suggestion, so I will comment on my own post. What does this have to do with the chord view? Everything. 1) It addresses one of the first abnormalities of the chord view the fact that a bar is broken into 1/2 measures. With this design the bar would be broken into the beats, so 4 segment for 4/4 and 3 segment for 3/4. This makes entering chords more intuitively obvious without having to learn some additional techniques. 2) It also introduces the idea of only showing the segmentation on the current bar keeping the look clean and familiar. 3) Micro chords by the pure name sounds like an afterthought (it was) and many people did not like or understand the design. This this incorporates in a natural workflow the most common musical chord situations, of the chance of a chord change on one of the beats in the measure and the ability to do a 1/8 note chord transition. A more natural workflow where you don't have to explain to people about commas and micro chords. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840168 01/23/25 09:44 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	BTW, I do believe the chord track is a nice chord sheet (printable for live musicians to follow) and show where Peters head was at in the initial days of BB, but with Chord Tracks being common in DAWs and stuck with a linear flow of DAWs a fully functional Chord track as shown in Cerio examples is the way to go for serious work on entering chords. It aligns with ideas of better (more room) showing the arrangement sections, and small changes you can make to the progression as it flows. We are caught between two subjects here Track View and the Chord View, so I will put my examples in the track view suggestion area. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840174 01/23/25 10:33 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	Jeff, 1) Micro chords are not really 1/16th chords, are they? They seem not, not in a traditional sense. Using MC you can create interesting musical nuances, but that will be it. If I remember correctly, you yourself had made a nice diagram showing that they are "layer" chords, over the main chord(s). If this is the case, then there is no place for them in actual Chord Sheet as they are a "side" tool and a panel would be a perfect candidate for that. Perhaps an indication that MC is present a the bar? A colored dot or such. Also, I think typing in microchords in main cells with commas is a bit overkill, as instead of arranging you do sort of coding. 2) "Chord track as shown in Cerio examples is the way to go for serious work on entering chords." For Track View, ACW - Yes. Would be great! And yes, suggestion belongs in Track View thread. Chord Sheet is a different view and serves a different purpose. 3) I agree that 4/4 should have 4 cells, 3/4 -3, etc. Absolutely.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Rustyspoon# #840177 01/23/25 10:50 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted by Rustyspoon# Jeff, ...................................................... 3) I agree that 4/4 should have 4 cells, 3/4 -3, etc. Absolutely. FWIW - why not have a grid like a lot of DAWs have. Set the grid to whole notes for one chord per cell. Set it for 8th notes for up to 8 chords per cell, etc. Have it so if you change from say a quarter note to a 16th note grid cell the quarter note chords and all other note chords still line up perfectly. This could work for all time signatures. YMMV When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Rustyspoon# #840178 01/23/25 10:51 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by Rustyspoon# Jeff, 1) Micro chords are not really 1/16th chords, are they? They seem not, not in a traditional sense. 2)Using MC you can create interesting musical nuances, but that will be it. If I remember correctly, you yourself had made a nice diagram showing that they are "layer" chords, over the main chord(s). If this is the case, then there is no place for them in actual Chord Sheet as they are a "side" tool and a panel would be a perfect candidate for that. 3) Perhaps an indication that MC is present a the bar? A colored dot or such. Also, 4) I think typing in microchords in main cells with commas is a bit overkill, as instead of arranging you do sort of coding. 1) Yes, currently up to 1/16. in practice it rare for a chord to be less than 1/8. (I actually think they should reduce its complexity to 1/8) 2) Hmm, you may have missed the power of Micro Chords. I used them immediately to add syncopated transitions chords in a song I was working on when they were introduces. They are real chords and rests and motifs that will render in the track even in the plugin. 3) The micro chords already show up in the chord sheet after you use the convoluted MC Window. (all the same symbols I showed) 4) Disagree, I would have loved to just enter my 1/8 syncopated chord directly into the chore track. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #840180 01/23/25 10:53 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by MarioD Originally Posted by Rustyspoon# Jeff, ...................................................... 3) I agree that 4/4 should have 4 cells, 3/4 -3, etc. Absolutely. FWIW - why not have a grid like a lot of DAWs have. Set the grid to whole notes for one chord per cell. Set it for 8th notes for up to 8 chords per cell, etc. Have it so if you change from say a quarter note to a 16th note grid cell the quarter note chords and all other note chords still line up perfectly. This could work for all time signatures. YMMV Yes, I was trying to make it less intrusive and less of a change for people used to using the cord track. That is why I suggested the grid only shows up when entering in chords for a particular bar. I also think 1/8th is enough granularity. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet jpettit #840211 01/23/25 02:45 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted by jpettit ...................................... Yes, I was trying to make it less intrusive and less of a change for people used to using the cord track. That is why I suggested the grid only shows up when entering in chords for a particular bar. I also think 1/8th is enough granularity. FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #840214 01/23/25 03:01 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418 S shlind Journeyman
shlind Journeyman S Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418	Originally Posted by MarioD Originally Posted by jpettit ...................................... Yes, I was trying to make it less intrusive and less of a change for people used to using the cord track. That is why I suggested the grid only shows up when entering in chords for a particular bar. I also think 1/8th is enough granularity. FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. Yes, I fully agree/+1.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #840216 01/23/25 03:06 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Originally Posted by MarioD FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. I absolutely agree. The program really (and I mean, really) needs a complete GUI redesign. This has been discussed here extensively, at least for the last ten / fifteen years. Last edited by Cerio; 01/23/25 03:12 PM. Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #840226 01/23/25 04:46 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by MarioD Originally Posted by jpettit ...................................... Yes, I was trying to make it less intrusive and less of a change for people used to using the cord track. That is why I suggested the grid only shows up when entering in chords for a particular bar. I also think 1/8th is enough granularity. FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. I would tend to agree however, to be clear, I would embark on a complete parallel rewrite including a new UI. I did it 3 times in a in a 30-year carrier and each was huge leap in UX. I have also watched and work with PGM for over a decade. They will take small steps and add things, but rarely will they replace something. My suggestions are all doable in 2025. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Cerio #840227 01/23/25 04:48 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	Originally Posted by Cerio Originally Posted by MarioD FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. I absolutely agree. The program really (and I mean, really) needs a complete GUI redesign. This has been discussed here extensively, at least for the last ten / fifteen years. Agree. +1 However, likely it will be a challenge to do it all overnight. Even big companies with very deep pockets do it in parts. I would rather see a few most supported big concepts done very well, and if successful (cheering crowd), continue the trend going forward, than see something mediocre done as a whole.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840228 01/23/25 04:57 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Meanwhile back to what we agree upon. 1) Higher resolution for a bar. 2) Resolution that marches time signature. 3) Some way to easily enter chords up to 1/8 on the chord sheet. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840240 01/23/25 05:38 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,305 B babymusic Veteran
babymusic Veteran B Joined: Sep 2021 Posts: 2,305	I think the changes in Chord Sheet are very important. You can directly refer to the most popular DAWs, such as STUDIO ONE, CUBASE. You can create a "Chord track", below is the instrument VST, PIANO ROLL, Audio track. After establishing the concept of chord track, we further refined the chord track. For example, it is more convenient to input content. It is changed into multiple small grids. We removed the micro chord function. I have never used micro chords. We directly subdivided each bar. I talked about this issue a few years ago. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=744720#Post744720 Last edited by babymusic; 01/23/25 06:21 PM. WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840259 01/23/25 06:54 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,747 Kernersville, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,747 Kernersville, NC USA	Everything shows an unfolded view. What about multiple choruses, tags, repeats? Band-in-a-Box has humanizing selections that are invoked when these features are used. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840270 01/23/25 08:43 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 80 So. Fl. robertw Enthusiast
robertw Enthusiast Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 80 So. Fl.	@MarioD, Current users of BiaB, should really have no problem adjusting to the new GUI even if it is radically changed, and any new users should find it easier to use than it currently is. There, will be a learning curve, and all good software has a learning curve.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet robertw #840353 01/24/25 01:38 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted by robertw @MarioD, Current users of BiaB, should really have no problem adjusting to the new GUI even if it is radically changed, and any new users should find it easier to use than it currently is. There, will be a learning curve, and all good software has a learning curve. That was my point. When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #840652 01/26/25 10:47 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Suggestion: Pure contextual menu for Chord Sheet. Simplifying it to just the chords, bars and progression improve the user workflow. Everything else is a distraction and better belong somewhere else. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #840653 01/26/25 10:56 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by MarioD Originally Posted by jpettit ...................................... Yes, I was trying to make it less intrusive and less of a change for people used to using the cord track. That is why I suggested the grid only shows up when entering in chords for a particular bar. I also think 1/8th is enough granularity. FWIW - I think we have to stop worrying about how people currently use BiaB. Some of the outstanding suggestions along with accompanying mock-ups are radical changes from the current GUI. If we keep worrying about the current GUI/workflow then nothing will change. We all are capable of change. IMHO if this is going to happen lets do it right the first time. That is just my opinion and other may not agree with me. My mockup was a radical change, compared to the original solution for micro chords. I like and agree with MarioD ideas as well. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Cerio #841674 02/04/25 03:55 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110 M musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110	"Song Master Pro, is a beautiful example of how different views can be integrated in a single screen in a really intuitive way:" "You can also move chords directly from the main screen, just by draggin them. Note that the chords will move accordingly to the snap setting, so it's possible to insert up to 16 chords per bar from here (no need to use commas, carets, or that counterintuitive "Micro chords" feature)" I saw Chord Sheet improvements in the Forum Tittle and I thought I would post about having the chord entry in the Tracks View and how you can zoom in to enter chords on any beat resolution without the comas and micro chords, BUT you did already, and not only that but this awesome looking and incredibly well designed GUI. RapidComposer would enter chords the same way depending on what the snap resolution was set to, drag and resize chords. I will have to go check this out ! thanks Cerio ! Originally Posted by Cerio Why design all views independently, forcing the user to choose between the ‘Chords’ view OR the ‘Tracks’ view? Wouldn't be much better if we had a main screen where the user could simultaneously see all the most important views (chords, tracks, lyrics, sections, the whole song's structure...) and edit any of them from a single place? Take a look, for example, at Song Master Pro, is a beautiful example of how different views can be integrated in a single screen in a really intuitive way: First, you always have a view of the whole song structure, you can navigate to the different parts directly from there, and you can also zoom in/out directly from there: Then, you have different "Tracks" (Views) that you can show / hide as you wish. No need to see the "Sections" or the "Lyrics" track? No problem, just hide them: Want to use the mixer or any other tool? Just click on the tiny icons at the top right to show / hide the tools / browser panels:

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet musocity #841703 02/04/25 07:33 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY	I am partially color blind and can't tell many colors. In some threads I have to highlight some areas as I can't read them. Thus any color theme in BiaB must have the option to adjust or change any color. When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet MarioD #841707 02/04/25 07:42 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418 S shlind Journeyman
shlind Journeyman S Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 418	Originally Posted by MarioD I am partially color blind and can't tell many colors. In some threads I have to highlight some areas as I can't read them. Thus any color theme in BiaB must have the option to adjust or change any color. Yes/+1.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #841731 02/04/25 11:11 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Summary of input on Chord Sheet: OP: This thread is for suggestions regarding the Chord Sheet view. This is for specific suggestions only, not general comments. Text about Arrangement/Arranger Track: Supporters: robertw, jpettit, Charlie More granularity in Bars/match signature/Integrate Micro Chords: Supporters: Matt Finley, jpettit, ~Rustyspoon#, MarioD One Main Screen with Panels: (most popular in original UI Thread) Supporters: robertw, Cerio, jpettit, Rustyspoon#,musocity A bit OT: This challenges the need for a Track view and a Chord View Editable Chords Track Supporters: jpettit, babymusic, Cerio, musocity A bit OT: This challenges the need for a Track view and a Chord View Improved (clean to the context) and more context menus Supporters: jpettit A universal input. If PGM really wants input form customer and want to know how popular the idea is the need to turn on voting capabilities in the Forum. Tendency to divert from the OP and minimal customer input are common with just open-ended conversations. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet jpettit #841857 02/05/25 11:22 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Originally Posted by jpettit Improved (clean to the context) and more context menus Supporters: jpettit A universal input. +1000 to context menus, which are an essential to improve discoverability > ease of use > better user experience. https://www.uxpin.com/studio/blog/discoverability-in-ux/ In Reaper, for example, right clicking on almost any element opens a menu with options about that element, so the user always know what is possible to do with that. Super simple, super intuitive and super effective: https://youtube.com/shorts/OKIASspvNgs?si=0MuBZOsp_l_sji9b Last edited by Cerio; 02/05/25 11:45 AM. Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Cerio #841860 02/05/25 11:34 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110 M musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110	"In Reaper, for example, right clicking on almost any element opens a menu with options about that element, so the user always know what is possibler to do with that element. Super simple, super intuitive and super effective: https://youtube.com/shorts/OKIASspvNgs?si=0MuBZOsp_l_sji9b " I posted a video on [R*****] menus to give ideas but it just got deleted.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet musocity #841861 02/05/25 11:47 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Originally Posted by musocity https://youtube.com/shorts/OKIASspvNgs?si=0MuBZOsp_l_sji9b +1 Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet musocity #841864 02/05/25 12:00 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain C Cerio Expert
Cerio Expert C Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,540 Spain	Originally Posted by musocity I posted a video on [R*****] menus to give ideas but it just got deleted. Reaper has one of the best, well thought, user interfaces I have ever seen. I remember very well, 15 years ago the day when, working in the middle of a production, I moved all my projects from cubase to reaper after installing the program and testing it just for a few minutes. After a couple of hours of use I felt way more comfortable with Reaper than after years and years of using Cubase, Logic or Protools. And the reason of that was simply because, despite having a zillion of features, everything I needed was exactly where I thought it should be, and everything worked exactly how I thought it should work. Last edited by Cerio; 02/05/25 12:05 PM. Latest BIAB version, latest build.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Cerio #841890 02/05/25 04:14 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,429 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,429 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted by Cerio In Reaper, for example, right clicking on almost any element opens a menu with options about that element, so the user always know what is possible to do with that. Super simple, super intuitive and super effective: Precisely that is done in an awful lot of software and it works well. If the software starts out with that philosophy, then it stays solid and consistent as it grows and evolves. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Cerio #841893 02/05/25 04:46 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110 M musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110	"Reaper has one of the best, well thought, user interfaces I have ever seen....." You can't improve Biab unless you study [R***], I have spent so much time over the years posting things to make Biab/RB/Plugin better by showing examples in [R***], whether it's Instant Gen Play Direct, Live Arranger or so many other things. The trouble is so many like to criticize and are offended with me posting all this info as they have not or will not try things so remain in the past. This is like the numero uno thing that keeps these products way behind other software. It's so good to see those here that understand and don't knock or delete. For me to take on the establishment has by no means been an easy thing.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #841902 02/05/25 05:14 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,087 Oregon	Let's not over emphasize one DAW over another. It is about common UX approaches to make things more user friendly. (like all modern creative tools) Good Context menus is just one example. Remember they want specific examples vs what is already there. The point made here was lots of smaller specific context menus dealing with each object on the screen. So, it is the principle of right mouse click to see where you can go from here. Other points: 1) Don't mix options with next actions. (separate place/button for local options) 2) Don't throw in paths that are not pertinent to next steps. 3) Don't do things in context menu that could be better done with supporting panels Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Chord Sheet jpettit #841925 02/05/25 06:51 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,747 Kernersville, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,747 Kernersville, NC USA	Originally Posted by jpettit Let's not over emphasize one DAW over another. It is about common UX approaches to make things more user friendly. (like all modern creative tools) Good Context menus is just one example. Remember they want specific examples vs what is already there. The point made here was lots of smaller specific context menus dealing with each object on the screen. So, it is the principle of right mouse click to see where you can go from here. Other points: 1) Don't mix options with next actions. (separate place/button for local options) 2) Don't throw in paths that are not pertinent to next steps. 3) Don't do things in context menu that could be better done with supporting panels +1 Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet jpettit #841928 02/05/25 07:21 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110 M musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,110	If one DAW allows you to have whatever you want in whatever menu you want this allows users to decide and create the functions and layout they need then are not stuck with what the company thinks is best for them. As I said the video I posted showed all this but was deleted. I should not have to use AutoHotkey to create up the menus I need.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #841977 02/06/25 06:55 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	To be able to enter N/C (No Chord) in Chord View.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Rustyspoon# #841999 02/06/25 11:00 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,852 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,852 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Originally Posted by Rustyspoon# To be able to enter N/C (No Chord) in Chord View. A very old request. The puzzle is that this has always been among the shortcut chords in pgshortc.txt but it does not work. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Matt Finley #842510 02/10/25 01:59 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 7,367 Victoria, BC Andrew - PG Music OP PG Music Staff
OP Andrew - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: May 2002 Posts: 7,367 Victoria, BC	Thanks for your summary of the main topics Jeff, it's very helpful. And thanks everyone for your great ideas. Andrew PG Music Inc.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #847894 03/29/25 10:56 AM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 569 J J. Larry Journeyman
J. Larry Journeyman J Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 569	Didn't see anything for a "new" thread, so this. Windows version 2025, here, with the latest build. 1) When setting up a tag ending, what makes the chord sheet temporarily jump back to measure one (as the tag begins), before quickly reverting back to the normal ending? Is there a simple workaround for this? 2) In working with the F5 key in muting tracks and the “back to normal” setting, might it be possible to exit the F5 view by “apply” only and not the “x”, as well? One click would save time, when doing a lot of editing. 3) When a song uses a utility track(s), shown in the mixer, the next song called-up in live play may not have utility tracks. However, the mixer continues to show the gray utility track until clicked away. Shouldn’t it revert back to the default view, if no utility track is present?

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #847903 03/29/25 12:38 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679 Rustyspoon# Veteran
Rustyspoon# Veteran Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 6,679	"2) In working with the F5 key in muting tracks and the “back to normal” setting, might it be possible to exit the F5 view by “apply” only and not the “x”, as well? One click would save time, when doing a lot of editing." I don't follow this one. F5 is now non-modal. You don't need to "apply" anything for mutes/back to normal. It applies changes automatically and you can navigate chord sheet as you wish selecting any other bar and continue further with mutes/unmutes until satisfied... without closing it. I am not even sure what that "apply" button does. You are 1 click (X) away from closing the dialog. With hope that PGM is serious about UI design for 2026, most agree that modular panels are the way to go. If that is the case, I am sure that F5 will make it there, as it is a popular item.

Re: Specific suggestions - Chord Sheet Andrew - PG Music #848389 04/03/25 01:52 PM Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,727 Hamlin NY	Wouldn't it be nice if we could drag and drop an audio track or tracks into the track view? If there are other tracks already we could align the audio with them. BiaB could either determine that audio track's tempo or match said track to BiaB tempo. If BiaB time signature were still only integers the audio track would have to be stretched or shortened accordingly. This could take the place of the ACW and all of its problems. YMMV When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?" 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

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