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Thanx OM and AT. I concur it is the drum's brush swirls that is causing that sound.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
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All.
(the following is all with J's chords.)
some further clues from my testing _JAZZSWP.
1..if one looks in the style picker the tempo shows 140..
SO...
2..could it be that J's tempo of 62 is outside range and thus introducing
'artifacts' ?? it looks to me that such a big tempo gap might be an issue.
AND..
3..another interesting aspect IS when i demo (with J's chords)
at 140 the drums waveform seems to be more in line with what i
would expect...WHEREAS at tempo 62 the waveform graphic in bbtv is
not as pronounced !!
IN CONCLUSION...
i suspect that the choice of tempo might be the issue.
ie too much of a tempo gap tween 62 and 140 ??
ie posing a problem for the stretching algorithm ??
fwiw i normally on a style tempo of 140 in picker i would maybe add one quarter or deduct same from the style tempo...and test THAT as to sound quality. ie with JAZZSWP go no more than roughly 175 down to 105 ?? sometimes depending on the style i might be more adventurous...lol.
happiness.
om
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Jazz.
see my last post.
ok i listened to those bars...sometimes its just the way it IS.
i think what your hearing and i agree with simon is just the natural sound of the snare swirls.
all sounds ok here. BUT remember the stretching algorithm DOES HAVE its limits. ive had this happen many times.
ALSO...i think in the makeing of the rd if one listens closely the drummer is maybe playing in bars 22 to 37 snare hits PLUS swirls ??....difficult to tell.
as to why no noise at when whole song is at same tempo i suspect that the tempo of 124 is within range of the style 140 tempo thus its not such a challenge for the stretching algorithm.
its the music production gremlins...twas always thus with songs...lol.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/19/25 05:33 PM.
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Hi, justanoldmuso. Thank you for your analysis.
I don't think it's the choice of tempo or style, because I tried with _SLOWBAL ( recommended tempo 60).
The result was the same.
In the style _JAZZSWP, it may sound a bit funny at tempo 62, I agree, but I actually don't mind that.
But I can't stand that jeee noise during the tempo change.
Even if the recommended tempo is 140, my 124 is not that slow.
Regards,
Jazzutako
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Hi, Simon. Thank you for your help. 2: It should, however it was not built for Windows 11 and may not work correctly. I tried but I could not even install it. I don't think BB2018 works in Win11 computer. 1: The style files from 2018 have not changed, so if you're using a 2018 style in 2025 there is no difference to the style file itself than using that same file in the 2018 version. The differences you're hearing are related to the software not the content. OK, how about the Realdrums? Can I transfer BB2018 Realdrums to BB2025? Will that work or will not in the BB2025 software? Regards, Jazzutako
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Jazz.
heres an idea.
generate 2 drum tracks.
..one for the 62 tempo..
..and one for the change of bars tempo.
ive just auditioned various jazz rd's....
and jazzolder^4 might float your boat for the change ?
in summary two seperate drum tracks one for the 62 tempo and one for the change.
frankly i dont see any advantage moving the 2018 drums to 2025...
but maybe i'm missing something.
NOTE to Simon.
whats troubling me is WHY with various tempos the graphics of the waveforms are weaker and lower than others.
its baffling....might it be to do with the stretching algo ?
om
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/19/25 06:40 PM.
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Hi, justanoldmuso. Thank you for your help. ..one for the 62 tempo..
..and one for the change of bars tempo. Do you mean 1) tempo 62 all the way 2) tempo 124 all the way I hope I got right. Anyway I made the samples in short version. Ds track tempo 62 all the way https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QEU0Do60cdIhvkVpUzi4mV09FkQ_fe1J/view?usp=sharingDs track tempo 124 all the way (2nd attempt) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lIVt0A8GciEmDBe2SLDlRk2jisy9D23x/view?usp=sharingNow, when I made the No.2 sample (tempo 124), something very weird happened. The first outcome was this. Ds track tempo 124 all the way (1st attempt) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L30ihX7_AAjDnqJcxXEcFE9JpDdt6roH/view?usp=sharingThere's the jeee noise the whole time! Do you hear the noise??? This is the noise I'm talking about. So I closed BB and started again, then there was no noise. But this never happened before, always jeee noise only during the tempo change. frankly i dont see any advantage moving the 2018 drums to 2025... I got this idea because people tell me it's the drums swirl. Since it doesn't make the noise in BB2018, if I use the same Realdrums as BB2018, then it wouldn't make the noise, I thought. Regards, Jazzutako
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Jazz.
i listened to all 3 of those google sound files on different systems. no prob here. i still think what your hearing are brush swirls with snare hits.
im not a jazz expert but i have in the past sung vocs with a jazz group.
heres what i suggest...
1...go thru demoing all jazz swing real drums.
includeing variations.
2..generate the ones you like and freeze them.
3...export the audio of each to a daw eg reaper or realband
whatever.
4..in the daw comp down to a final drum track.
ps i still say get a proper audio interface.
see a thread i started in pg tips forum detailing what sound interfaces people use. its got loads of views.
also in tips see thread re optimising a pc for music production.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/20/25 06:18 AM.
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Since it doesn't make the noise in BB2018, if I use the same Realdrums as BB2018,
then it wouldn't make the noise, I thought. I'm pretty certain the difference you're hearing is due to improvements in the pitch stretching engine, or settings related to that. The 2018 version likely doesn't exhibit the "noise" because the sound of the brushes is being heavily altered by the lower quality pitch stretching in the older version, while the newer version is better and more accurate. It's similar to buying a new car and finding that it "shakes" when you drive it on certain roads - the problem isn't the new car, it's that the newer tighter suspension lets you "feel" the road more while the old car is softer (worn out) by comparison.
I work here
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Maybe try _JazzNYC for drums; no swirls and base tempo is halfway between your extremes so less stretching
Just an idea
Or any of the other brush drums, you have quite a few to choose from.
It's clear you don't like the swirling sound ..
If it was me I would use a different Drum style for that quick section altogether to accentuate the change, maybe use _JazzSWP for slow and _JazzSWS for fast or something
YOU have to play around with it until you find something YOU like. It's next to impossible to guess what someone else will like.
Last edited by rharv; 02/20/25 04:16 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I posted same time you did, so nudging you to look at previous post.
As far as your examples, yes I hear a distinct difference
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi, Simon. Thank you for your help.
So, in conclusion,
Can I transfer BB2018 Realdrums to BB2025?
Will that work or will not in the BB2025 software?
Regards,
Jazzutako
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I think Simon is trying to say those files haven't changed, what changed is how 2018 uses them vs how 2025 uses them .. hopefully he confirms
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Jazz.
i agree with simon re stretching algo....and imho prolly its the effect on the snare swirls....when i was listening i was taking into consideration the algo.
many times ive had artifacts depending on tempo setting.
c'est la vie of a song creator....so i find a different rt or rd.
thats about all i can say.
frankly i would audition more pg content with your chords to see if you can improve things.
this is often what i do on a serious song.
its important to understand imho that tempo stretching algos can be only pushed so far.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/20/25 04:45 PM.
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.......................
Regards,
Jazzutako Yes, there is a huge difference between the two files. In the B file the drum brush swirls are much louder, like someone put the recording microphone a lot closer to the snare drum, thus amplifying that sound. I think Simon had the answer. The only answer other than replacing the drums would be to EQ the drums. That is find the offensive frequencies and lower the volume via EQ. The problem is that can be a real PITA to accomplish. I hope this helps and good luck. PS - a suggestion. The next time, if there is one, don't let us know which file has the problem. Blind testing eliminates any bias.
Last edited by MarioD; 02/20/25 05:28 PM.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
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Can I transfer BB2018 Realdrums to BB2025?
Will that work or will not in the BB2025 software? I think Simon is trying to say those files haven't changed, what changed is how 2018 uses them vs how 2025 uses them .. hopefully he confirms Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The audio files haven't changed, nor have the instructions on how to use them. its important to understand imho that tempo stretching algos can be only pushed so far. Yup, and in this case it's being pushed very far. Generally when making styles we shoot for around +-20% maximum.
I work here
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Simon.
yep i feel pushed too far also.
Jazz.
ok ive been experimenting with various jazz styles useing your jazz chords.
maybe your taste is different than mine...but what the hey...
try...
(put a dash in front of each)
TOWN
NOIR
BIGTIME
SNAZZY4
do any of the above float your boat ? sound picture wise ?
frankly i think there are better basses than swp style.
if you wish i'll demo some more with your chords if your ok with that.
there are a ton of jazz styles i could go thru.
get back to me.
note >> sometimes what one needs to do is mix to taste tracks genned from different styles ie.... keeping the good licks and deleting the bad.
thats my method.
om
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/20/25 05:59 PM.
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HI, justanoldmuso. Thank you so very much for your help and suggestions. yep i feel pushed too far also. How can I make double time feel then? I have to double both the bars and tempo 62 to 124 to get double time feel. Is there any other way? I have a big favor if you don't mind. Here's SGU file, short version. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E9tat8sYo_LwFOzDhfY1ijRApiYKl0kL/view?usp=sharing1) Could you render WAV as it is, and upload somewhere for me? 2) Could you render WAV with one of your suggested style and upload as well? When you have the time. I really appreciate it. When I look for ballad styles in my BB2025 Pro, these are the only options. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tEWfXGY9Ekb0nUG3FNRkqRIMbGGmeDh5/viewI just want to make a ballad song with double time feel in the middle without that type of "noise". Just a simple ballad. I will buy the RealTracks Sets or RealDrums Tracks if there's one that can do it. Regards, Jazzutako
Last edited by jazzutako; 02/24/25 06:50 PM.
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