|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Here's a song I started putting together last Friday. I'm pretty happy with the way it's turning out, but as with my last song (and apparently anything up-tempo) I'm having a rather hard time getting my vocals right on the beat.  I'm not sure whether it's a latency thing or just my inability to enuciate fast enough.  I tend to think it's me since repeated (many times) attempts have produced acceptable results.  I'll definately be working on the 1st verse and some chorus parts some more as well as maybe some harmony on certain lines in the verses & a high part in the chorus. I just wanted to get some feedback on where I am right now.  I'm finding this forum to be a great asset in this whole music creation process.  Thank you to all who participate.  All tracks are RT's. I was gonna put some guitar tracks down, but then I felt like I didn't really need to, and to be honest. Sometimes it's not real easy to compete with the RT's, especially at this tempo! (And of course there's my potential latency issue's) All feedback welcome, Greg http://www.mymusicstream.com/gregachord/song-8407749408844.html Oh yea... The effect's at the beginning and end are just for grin's.:D
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Hi Greg,
This song could be evaluated on several different levels, and at each level it gets a different score in my book.
level 1, the composition:
I REALLY like the composition, chords, theme, lyrics and energy of this song. The arranging of the real tracks is very good.. instruments flow in and out very realistically. I also appreciate the added sound effects. They add to the "live" feel of the song, which, as I've said before, is one of your key strengths (IMHO). You know how to make a song exciting as in a live performance.
level 2, the live performance:
yeah, the vocal synch is not always on cue.. and the reasons you offer are probably right. Maybe a bit too fast or too edgy... but in the context of a live performance, those things aren't deal killers. Enthusiastic use of vocal chords often changes the vocal parameters somewhat. So, as a live performance it works for me. I can imagine myself sitting in a lawn chair at Merlefest listening to this piece while tapping my foot and nodding approvingly.
level 3, the studio recording:
It is mixed well... on my speakers is was crystal clear, no mud, and the panning/balance of the instruments was value-adding. But as a studio recording, people would expect that you spent more time getting the vocals right. These days even humble home studios commonly have the technology to fix pitch, timing, etc and we are so spoiled by perpetual sonic perfection that when we hear something that sounds "natural", it raises a red flag.
Assuming latency is the culprit, you may want to try one or more of the following fixes:
1) if you aren't already using ASIO drivers, that might help the latency
2) if the song is just too fast, you could slow it down or..
3) punch in as needed until it's in synch throughout the song
4) consider purchasing melodyne. It has an algorithm for repositioning audio notes like midi, and it does a pretty good job of polishing a first take it into a keeper.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of totally processed sound (especially bluegrass)
I like your live sound. If I were you, with your natural talents and tendencies, I would focus on making "LIVE" recordings and forget about trying to polish away the rough edges of the gem. That's totally your own creative judgment call, however. Only you can decide what persona you want to present with your music. But I really like your sound. Everything you've posted so far sounds good to me. Your songs are FUN to listen to, and not every musician knows how to consciously repeat that phenomenon.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 09/28/10 04:32 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Hey Pat, Thanks for taking the time to listen and for your (evaluated) comments. I appreciate all you had to say and find your comments to be very helpful. I have been using punch-in to help with my sync issues (with some success). I'm intrigued by "Melodyne", and I see where you can download a trial version of the VST plug-in. I'll be giving that a try. Hopefully later tonight. Thanks again, Greg
Last edited by Achordocaster; 09/28/10 06:15 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,799
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,799 |
Hi Greg, this has a ton of potential. Great sound and groove.
I agree with Pat on everything he has stated so I will not be redundant.
I will add a couple of things. I’m assuming you are recording with a sequencer and not in BiaB. I would record each phrase separate and not try to sing the song in its entirety. Record a phrase, get it synced with the backing tracks them move to the next phrase. You may be doing this already and if so then just ignore it.
I believe you are trying to sing to many words in a short period of time. Hopefully you can accomplish this. If not you have but two choices; slow the song down as per Pat’s suggestion or cut out some of the words. Your choice.
Lastly whatever you do DO NOT change anything except the vocals. Everything else is absolutely perfect.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Mario, Thanks for the input, It's appreciated. I'm going to spend some time (as soon as I have some) working on phrases individually, may have to cut a word here or there (we'll see), since I don't really want to slow it down. I'm sure I can improve on what I've got, especially the first verse.  I downloaded the demo version of Melodyne to try that, but alas it only lets you do a 10sec section and that just won't get it. I don't know how your suppose to evaluate it's usefulness with only 10 sec to work with!  Thanks again, Greg I promise I WON'T change anything except vocals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,799
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,799 |
Greg, there is a free pitch correction called GSnap I have no experience with it as I use the V-Vocal that comes with Sonar however this may work for you. Plus the price is right!
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696 |
Hi Greg - don't forget that handy little doohickey in the audioedit window that help you align your vocal. Use in small phrases - highlight the "out of time" section, then press the ctrl key and the left mouse button at the same time, then slide the highlighted phrase as you need to put it on beat. Oh yeh, do this on a duplicate track. Try to sort it out with sliding. Or as Mario suggested - phrase at a time. If your vocal is coming in late for the whole song, then maybe it is a driver matter, but if it is just now and then, then it is a timing problem with you and your backing tracks.
Maybe for recording you need to boost the beat, or insert a percussion track to help you with your rhythm vocal cues.
Failing that, maybe trim the lyrics.
Good Luck - hope this helps. Ian
I use MME drivers
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Ian, Thank you so much! That's great advice. I wondered if that was possible in RB. I can't wait to give it a try (like right now). I'm using the Shure X2U USB adapter with a SM86 condenser mic, so I'm inclined to think it's me and not a driver/latency issue. Boosting the beat for recording the vocal track is also an excellent suggestion. Thanks Again. Update: I've been messing with the Audio Edit window on my verse vocal track for the last 1/2 hour... and WOW! This is exactly what I needed. I can move individual words, phrases, sections, etc. I only need to move them a little bit, so I think this is gonna work great for me! Nice job Ian! Greg
Last edited by Achordocaster; 10/01/10 11:29 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 378
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 378 |
A real toe-tapper! Nice tune. I hear where the vocals are off a bit. You have to figure out if that's latency or not. You don't want to start working around it with editing. It's a solution for this fix, but you shouldn't have to do that if you're singing properly to begin with. It's tough to say whether it's latency or not. People who sing out of time generally don't really know they're doing it, which is why it may be hard for you to know for sure. I would know if I saw you sing it but obviously....! If you don't have a sense of timing when you sing, then editing will be your friend. If you know you're singing on the mark in the first place, then fix the latency. Don't accept it and edit after the fact, if you can help it. I guess the question begs- how are you recording vocal? What's the chain? Meaning gear you hook up to.
All in all- good tune!
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Well I just spent about an hour editing the vocals via the audio/edit window and I think it really helped. I didn't go nuts, I just moved the blatant words/phrases onto the beat. That's a very handy tool! I've updated the song page with the new one. Quote:
A real toe-tapper! Nice tune. I hear where the vocals are off a bit. You have to figure out if that's latency or not. You don't want to start working around it with editing. It's a solution for this fix, but you shouldn't have to do that if you're singing properly to begin with. It's tough to say whether it's latency or not. People who sing out of time generally don't really know they're doing it, which is why it may be hard for you to know for sure. I would know if I saw you sing it but obviously....! If you don't have a sense of timing when you sing, then editing will be your friend. If you know you're singing on the mark in the first place, then fix the latency. Don't accept it and edit after the fact, if you can help it. I guess the question begs- how are you recording vocal? What's the chain? Meaning gear you hook up to.
All in all- good tune!
Dan
Hey Dan,
Thanks for the compliment and your thoughts as well.
I really don't think it's latency, I'm using a shure condeser mic and the shure X2U USB adapter into a USB port for vocals & haven't really had any problems until this song. (well maybe a little on my last one too) I think it's me just not gettin the words out fast enough.
I spent 25+ years playing 4 & 5 nights a week in a band and we would record almost every night right off the mixer... I never noticed a problem with my "sense of timing when I sing" on all those live recordings, but... I am somewhat older & slower now and this song is pretty snappy at 140bpm! If I did it with the band I'm in now it would HAVE to be slowed down.
Hey, once again thanks for takin the time to listen, and check out the new one if you like.
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
Hi Greg - don't forget that handy little doohickey in the audioedit window that help you align your vocal. Use in small phrases - highlight the "out of time" section, then press the ctrl key and the left mouse button at the same time, then slide the highlighted phrase as you need to put it on beat.
Dang! I didn't know that was there! Yet another cool feature buried in the heap of other cool features!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Well I decided to re-record the verses and add a few lines of harmony as well. There were a few pitch issues I couldn't live with, as well as the vocal timing problem, (despite the use of the audioedit window). I still had to move a couple of words very slightly, but nothing like the editing I did before! I believe I'll call this one finished. I know I could continue to knit-pick, but I'm learning there comes a time when you just have to call it good and move on! Otherwise I'd still be on my first project! I've updated the page with the (finished) version and hope ya' all will give it one more listen. I'll be posting another project real soon. Thanks everyone! Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 613 |
Quote:
I believe I'll call this one finished. I know I could continue to knit-pick, but I'm learning there comes a time when you just have to call it good and move on! Otherwise I'd still be on my first project!
Ok so guess I lied in the post above.
What happened is I decided to download "Reaper" about 10 days ago, and after about a 5 day learning curve and 20+ hrs of playing with it (read alot of the 400 page pdf manual) I decided to bring this song into it and work on it there.
I re-recorded the verse vocals and harmony's in Reaper... and Wow! What a difference. The timing problem I was having in RB completely disappeared.
I guess maybe I WAS having some latency issues in RB, especially at that tempo.
Anyway I'm really impressed with Reaper (especially since they let you use the entire program for a month and then it's only $40) and I think it's a great supplement to BIAB & RB.
So... If your so inclined give it one more listen with this new mix using Reaper.
Oh and I think it really is done now!
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,608
Posts735,030
Members38,514
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean