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Just a bit confused as to why C4 as labelled in the Piano Roll actually shows as C3 (concert pitch) on the app on my mobile phone and on a virtual online keyboard? It seems that BIAB labels concert pitch C3 as C4 in the Piano Roll - likewise D3 as D4. Almost like it's following guitar notation?
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depending on your specific DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) or synthesizer, this exact note number might be labeled as either C4 (the standard Scientific Pitch Notation) or C3 (a common offset convention used by companies like Yamaha).
does that help?
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Sorry, I've given the wrong information. It's actually the Big Piano where the issue is. When I play C4 in BIAB Big Piano the note indication (label) above says I'm playing C4, but the sound coming out is actually C3 concert pitch. So, BIAB is saying it's playing C4 when it's actually playing C3.
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While C4 is the generally accepted international standard for middle C, it varies between instrument makers. For example, for middle C: Roland uses C4, Yamaha uses C3, Fruity Loops uses C5 (if I recall correctly). The standalone version of BIAB also denotes middle C as C5 in both notation and Piano Roll. Are you saying that depending on how your view BIAB on the PG Music app, that middle C is denoted differently?
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Sorry, I've given the wrong information. It's actually the Big Piano where the issue is. When I play C4 in BIAB Big Piano the note indication (label) above says I'm playing C4, but the sound coming out is actually C3 concert pitch. So, BIAB is saying it's playing C4 when it's actually playing C3. Hi StevieB, look for the note number. Those whom standardized MIDI called MIDI note 60 as middle C, and every other note also has a designated MIDI note number. What they didn't standardize was what to call MIDI note 60, thus the confusion as depending on the software or hardware it can be called C3. C4, or C5. So if your MIDI note is 60 it is just a nomenclature problem. If not then you have a transposing problem so let us know the MIDI note number you are getting.
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I guess I arrived at this questions when trying to see what range, and key would best suit a session singer. For example, if they say their peak note is E4, then what actually does that mean in relation to the notes I can play on the Big Piano window? I understood E4 means E4 concert pitch, and that is universal. But apparently, E4 concert pitch is called E5 in BIAB?
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What? I am finding the same thing here? Not sure I ever noticed this before in BIAB, but my middle C (aka C4) on my SL88 keyboard is named C5 in BIAB. I didn't expect to see this. Mario, I can't see where to verify the Note Number (60) in BIAB?
Maybe I need to get my coffee....
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What? I am finding the same thing here? Not sure I ever noticed this before in BIAB, but my middle C (aka C4) on my SL88 keyboard is named C5 in BIAB. I didn't expect to see this. Mario, I can't see where to verify the Note Number (60) in BIAB?
Maybe I need to get my coffee.... Hi Dan, as I stated MIDI note numbers are universal and written in stone. If BiaB was not MIDI note compliant it could not be GM; that is if MIDI note 60 was not middle C then could play or output songs in GM. Here is the universal MIDI note chart: https://audiodev.blog/midi-note-chart/
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Hi Dan, The chord output window is one of a few places where PG Music indicate that middle C is note 60. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=32791&filename=midi note numbers.jpg) --Noel
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I guess I arrived at this questions when trying to see what range, and key would best suit a session singer. For example, if they say their peak note is E4, then what actually does that mean in relation to the notes I can play on the Big Piano window? I understood E4 means E4 concert pitch, and that is universal. But apparently, E4 concert pitch is called E5 in BIAB? That's correct. Like Fruity Loops and Guitar Pro, BIAB uses C5 as middle C. As Mario points out, for anything MIDI, concert-pitch middle C is always note 60 with a frequency of 261.63 Hz. These numbers are constant. It is only how various manufactures choose to number keys using octave notation that varies.
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thanks Noel. OK, Mario, I understand this midi note is "defined as Middle C! And best I can tell when I play middle C on my keyboard I hear Middle C in BIAB. But why then when I play a middle C (which is Studiologic C4), does BIAB's Midi Monitor says it is a C5? Now before you answer. I know about the differing conventions with some keyboards and some DAWs and Music Software, however I have never noticed this discrepancy with BIAB? Is this new? or has BIAB always been like this and I just never noticed? Or do I just need another cup of coffee.  ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=32792&filename=Screenshot 2026-07-13 105554.jpg)
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thanks Noel. OK, Mario, I understand this midi note is "defined as Middle C! And best I can tell when I play middle C on my keyboard I hear Middle C in BIAB. But why then when I play a middle C (which is Studiologic C4), does BIAB's Midi Monitor says it is a C5? Now before you answer. I know about the differing conventions with some keyboards and some DAWs and Music Software, however I have never noticed this discrepancy with BIAB? Is this new? or has BIAB always been like this and I just never noticed? Or do I just need another cup of coffee. Dan, if you keep drinking coffee you will be a nervous wreck before this is over  No this is not new. BiaB has always called middle C C5. I do know that it can drive me nuts with BiaB MIDI drums. It is in C5 while most of my MIDI drum software is in C4. This is one area where MIDI standards completely missed the boat. Along with middle C being MIDI note 60 it should have said it will be called C4. Actually middle C is called C4 because it is in the middle of the piano so where in hell did C3 and C5 come from? It is not like the MIDI 0-127 and 1-128 controversy, C3 and C5 could be called an octave apart from C4! This is where all of the confusion comes. I hope this helps.
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thanks Mario, you confirmed the crazyness. Bottom line for me is that this is just how BIAB does things - I will relax.
Now we just have to hope the OP can find peace with this situration.
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This is enough to make me take up drinking coffee! So, I bring up the Big Piano screen and play C4 and it says it is C5. What's the point of labelling the notes then? I'm not a piano player, but I would have thought C4 on a piano, has been C4 on a piano, since Beethoven was a boy!
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to make things even worse, if i remember correctly some standards go from 0 -127 and others 1-128. I remember having to change the number of the bass drum on my roland from that BIAB suggested. has this stopped now? middle c can't always be 60 if the staring number - 0 or 1 is different.
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to make things even worse, if i remember correctly some standards go from 0 -127 and others 1-128. I remember having to change the number of the bass drum on my roland from that BIAB suggested. has this stopped now? middle c can't always be 60 if the staring number - 0 or 1 is different. Hi Bob, as I previously mentioned there still is the 0-127 and 1-128 numbering systems but that has nothing to do with MIDI note standings. Middle C is always MIDI note 60. The 128 steps in 0-127 or 1-128 refer to the steps in a MIDI Continuous Controller. MIDI note numbers and MIDI CC numbers are two completely different things.
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to make things even worse, if i remember correctly some standards go from 0 -127 and others 1-128. I remember having to change the number of the bass drum on my roland from that BIAB suggested. has this stopped now? middle c can't always be 60 if the staring number - 0 or 1 is different. FWIW, and confusing as it is, they're actually different ways of presenting the same thing. The values in the MIDI data itself are 0...127. Unfortunately, some people are uncomfortable with zero being a number, so they add 1 to all the numbers where they show the to you and subtract 1 from all the numbers you type for them to restore them to the 0...127 range. The reason for the 0...127 is related to 8-bit binary numbers where those are the values of the seven bits of the payload.
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