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Earlier this year I wrote this song to make myself feel better. It's more rock so I could try out the metal half time drums. I sang lead plus three parts of harmony and added one track of TCH. All done in RB. RT's Bass 701, Metal Half Time Drums, Guitars - 798,896,643, Organ 671. Oh Me Oh My ©2010 Josie Beck A battle rages in my mind Faith is hard to find Life can be unkind Like a soldier worn and frayed Still pressing on for the light of Grace. Oh me oh my, I won't run and hide. Oh me oh my, God is on my side Oh me oh my, He will turn this tide Oh me oh my, My God will provide A little nagging voice of doubt Rising up to shout Got to drown it out Deliverance will come The victory is already won He's making a way for me Making a way for me Working in ways I cannot see
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Josie, I really liked this song, the chorus is especially catchy. I also thought the bridge with the key change going into the end chorus' was very cool.  Oh... and great vocals too. Nice job girl! Greg
Last edited by Achordocaster; 10/28/10 10:54 PM.
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Josie,
Excellent composition - really like the tune. Good mix - maybe bring the vox up a little - but that may be I am not a wake yet.
Super job - really like the whole feel of it.
The Powderman
Learning something new everyday
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Wow, Josie I do like that. Loved the vocals, the backing, the min/maj mood changes.
I think the lead vox could come forward a tad and it could do with the some EQ at the 'air and sheen' sector around 14 to 16kHz to accentuate the timbre of your voice.
John
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very nice composition Josie, and I like the message a lot.
This would be a good song for an accompanying video.
There's lots of opportunity to visually illustrate scenes of discouragement
consummated by an ultimate victory... much like every walk of faith.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 10/29/10 04:19 AM.
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Hi Josie, The chorus Quote:
Oh me oh my, I won't run and hide.
Oh me oh my, God is on my side
Oh me oh my, He will turn this tide
Oh me oh my, My God will provide
Says it all for me.
I liked your singing too. 
Best regards
Michee
Windows 11 64 bit, Biab 2023 1006, Realband 2023 (1)
i7 Desktop Computer 16Gb Memory
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Hi Josie, This is so good that I'm speechless. You've really taken songwriting and production to a whole new level with this one. Your musical treatment of the chorus shows some really clever arranging. As has already been mentioned, the lead vocal might benefit from being lifted by a decibel or two. Other than that, though, there's nothing else that I can add so I'm just going to go an have another few listens All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Josie,
Put me in the same boat as the rest of the folks with the positive comments above. I really enjoyed this song, I mean everything about it! In particular the harmonies were top notch and I think someone has already pointed out the strong message communicated in the chorus. You should be very proud of this one lady!
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Greg, Powderman, John, Pat, MIchee, Noel, and Danny, thank you all for listening and your comments. I am so relieved that you like it. It was a fun song to do with all the harmonies but it was a hard arrangement to mix. I won't even admit how many times I remixed it - grin. I got concerned that making the vocal louder and bringing in more air made it a bit harsh to me but I will try that.
You've all made me feel good. (It's not every day I can leave Noel speechless. LOL!) Seriously, thank you guys. It's easy to get intimidated with all the great production ya'll do around here.
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Hey Josie,
Great song. I loved the message and the arrangement. Bring the lead vocal up just a tad it will be radio ready. You have a knack for arrangements. Are all the harmony vocals live? Great results!
Marty
Music is what feelings sound like.
Band In A Box (current) Sonar Producer X2, Windows 7, 16 Gigs Ram, Quad Core, AMD Processor, Alesis MK2 Monitors, Roland Quad Capture Audio Interface,
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Great song and great sound Josie!
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Once again you've done great Josie! Wonderful from top to bottom!
Dan
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It’s all been said.
Great job.
Two thumbs up.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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Hi Josie,
Great job. I agree with all the above, and would also like to mention that I really enjoyed how you started the vocals. I was expecting them to start on the one chord but you cycled through a couple more chord changes and dropped them in on a minor. Nice bit of ear candy there in my opinion. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.
Jim
I'd be completely happy if I had just one more guitar.
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Marty, Dan, Mario, Jim, and PETER - wow - thanks for listening and commenting! I'm glad all my effort worked. grin. I knew I liked the song but it's great when others especially other musicians and writers you respect like it too.
Jim, I'd like to say oh I planned it that way but actually that's just how the raw emotion came out. grin.
Marty, the harmonies are three parts live and one harmonizer track. The vocal and harmony was sung on my old faithful sm58.
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Neat idea. I like the arrangement. The trio on Oh Me Oh My is well done.
The message is sound and well written. I love the keychange into the last chorus.
I wish the chord would resolve at the end to the 'root' but it works just as it is.
The instrumentation works very well. All in all a very well done piece. Congrats.
CMJ IdeaSound Studios www.IdeaSound.usBand in a Box 2020 Audiophile edition Ableton Live Suite 10
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Thank you for listening and the kind words CMJ.
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Hi, Josie: I finally caught up with this track and am very glad I did... listened to it three times now, and agree with all the good comments and praise above. I know you spent a lot of time on this... it shows. Not a huge problem, but I thought I heard a bit too much instrumentation in the vocal range. Others have recommended boosting the vocal, but you may get a better sound in EQ-ing some of the instrumentation, which would put the excellent vocal more up front, and avoid the midrange competition. As, maybe it's just me, but I thought the panning could be a bit broader... this would also serve to separate the instrumentation. But I'm not an engineer, and wonder if others, with more experience, would agree. I'd like to know. You best work that I've heard to date. Excellent! Daisy
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Nice work. People have already pointed out the good stuff in the song, and they're right. I like the way you used the electric guitar to create a solo on the intro. It's too bad there's no "Mellow Acoustic Guitar Soloist" yet.  Have you thought about using the Soloist Dire Ev 140 here? Soloist Blue BB Ev 085 also sounds good. You might want to consider lowering the guitar once the first verse comes in, and wait to until "Like a soldier..." and build to the chorus. Speaking of build, I like what you've done to add some variety and build to the song. For example, the drums on the intro, and the change in guitars on the bridge. These are things that really help keep the song alive. I think the vocals can be brought out better, especially at the beginning. Adding a boost around 1600Hz and a small cut to the bass helps. Even then, some vocals - such as "Working in ways I cannot see" are still too quiet in the mix. As Daisy alludes to, it's best to place everything in its own sonic range with EQ. This often means adding a slight EQ boost for something like vocals at frequencies you want to emphasize, and adding cuts at those same frequencies to instruments that overlap in those frequencies. I'm not a huge fan of songs with too many rhymes - the kill the "naturalness" of the language. And you've got a chorus filled with -ide rhymes in the chorus. Of course, that's a personal preference. I don't think many here agree with me. Life can be unkind doesn't really add anything. Do you expect that life isn't unkind? Are you expecting that the problems of life disappear if you're a believer? If not, then why include this line? My God will provide Is another cliche. What will be provided? The tools to win a battle? A way to grow your faith? More faith? A little nagging voice of doubt/Rising up to shout Is it a "little" voice" or a "shouting" voice? Changing "little" to something like "constant" would resolve this. Deliverance will come/The victory is already won is another cliche. You seem to be mixing two different victories - the anticipated victory over your crisis of faith, and Christ's victory over death. But how are the two related? If victory is "already won", then why do you even need to wait? Although I really love the sound of the chorus, why Oh me, oh my? That line is typically used as an expression of woe. What's it doing in this song? I haven't a clue. (But the harmonies sound great). It seems to me that you've set up a sort of "feel good" song, with the message: Have faith that your weak faith will eventually be strengthened. So the solution to a crisis of faith is... to have faith? You're heavy on generalities, and short on specifics. That bugs me. (But apparently, not many other folk. Consider that when reading the comments that follow!  ) Personally, I'm not sure that a crisis of faith is a bad thing, and something that needs to be overcome. I'll make the argument that you don't need to drown out your doubts. Those doubts will always be with you, and the size of your doubts isn't a measure of your faith. Rather, what little faith you've got is enough. And he says to them, Because of your little faith: for truly I say to you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, Be moved from this place to that; and it will be moved; and nothing will be impossible to you.So, I think I disagree with your thesis. But good job anyway!
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You're on the right track Daisy.
I made no comment on the mix of this tune because I don't know if you're even into that end of it Josie. I think it's a good song that needs serious mixing to make it sound it's best. If you're into mixing, you put forth an effort to really learn how to do it. And that effort is a huge one, taking years to get better at. And it involves way more than any little suggestions I could give here. There are wonderful books and audio courses to look into if mixing is your thing. Suffice to say, great song that could sound better. But the vision comes through enough, all the same.
Dan
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Hi dcuny, I've just been reading through your comments to Josie and felt that, in the interests of balance, I should provide a different argument to a couple of your thoughts. I don't know why but I get the feeling that you enjoy a friendly debate That's why I have written the below. I don't usually enter into differences of opinion on forums but I applaud good, healthy debate! So I'm going to take a risk. I hope that I'm right in that you too like debates. If I am wrong, what I've written below might sound antagonistic or arrogant. If that is the case, please keep in mind that I did not write it with any intention of being either Quote:
I'm not a huge fan of songs with too many rhymes - the kill the "naturalness" of the language. And you've got a chorus filled with -ide rhymes in the chorus. Of course, that's a personal preference. I don't think many here agree with me.
To my mind, rhymes are the single most important tool that a lyricist has to enhance the meaning of words through the development of lyric movement and this, in turn, adds an extra dimension to a lyric's emotional delivery. I like Josie's AAABB rhyme scheme (three perfect rhymes followed by a near-rhyme couplet). To my ears, it does its job of enhancing lyric content really well.
Let me explain what I mean.
The human mind likes balance and at the end of the first two lines, the rhymes are paired and this causes a feeling of completion (semi-completion is a better term because other factors, that I'll mention a little later, are also in play). A point of rhyme-balance is created. Josie then sets us up with her lyrics to repeat the process but this time she surprises us. Instead of rhyming the 3rd line with the 4th line, Josie introduces a line that doesn't rhyme. This draws attention to the line and causes the listener to re-focus (just in case s/he's feeling comfortable with predictability). In essence, the 4th non-rhyming line creates instability and this adds emotional momentum to the lyric. It keeps the lyric moving and keeps the listener's attention by using the unexpected. The problem, though, is that the verse needs to feel complete for it to end. At the moment, at the end of the 4th phrase, the verse cannot end with a sense of fulfillment. Completion requires rhyme. Josie solves this by adding another "B" line. The really clever part, though, is that the added rhyme is not a perfect rhyme. The assonance rhyme of frayed/grace is a skilled lyrical move. Near rhyme gives a sense of completion but not an absolute, "locked-in" sense of fulfillment. It still leaves the listener hanging a little. To my mind, this assonance rhyme enhances the emotional content delivered by the "surprise" created by not rhyming lines 3 and 4. Josie delivers all this in a 5-phrase stanza. Using an odd number of phrases also adds to the unbalanced nature of the verse. For me, the lyric content serves the format of the lyric structure very well. In this sense, I see it as excellent prosody. Also, using "provide" as an intransitive verb in its future tense is, to my ears, a masterstroke; yet another little kick of instability is given to listeners and it does its bit to enhance lyric content even further. For me, this lyric radiated with emotion because of the way it moves. (I always read lyrics aloud so that I can feel their impact on my senses.) I believe that any change to Josie's lyric structure would weaken it significantly.
Josie then sets out on the journey again in verse two and skillfully delivers another emotional roller-coaster ride: complete with "come" being used intransitively in the parallel 3rd phrase! By the end of the song, I feel satisfied that my journey through the song has been worthwhile.
As a contrast, had the verse been AAABBB in structure, it would have felt balanced and, for me, this would have weakened the reflective, emotional nature of the lyrics significantly. By the end of the current first verse, I hear and feel lyrics that have delivered the thinking of a person who is questioning their beliefs and even their existence. To my way of thinking, Josie's work is incredibly well woven and is, in many ways, showcase lyric writing. Moreover, it delivered me into the chorus for a big payoff. I couldn't help but notice that the chorus is a nicely balanced four sturdy lines of AAAA rhyme. This is a very stable, very solid rhyme scheme and is a perfect fit for the resolve that the singer anticipates. This difference between lyric instability in the verses and lyric stability in the chorus gave me a good feeling of contrast.
Josie's use of lyric meter also keeps us on the edge of our seats. Phrase 1 sets the pace and has a good, comfortable 4 feet to it (just like "Mary had a little lamb"). Phrase 2, though, only has 3 feet (like the second line of "Mary had a little lamb") and this keeps the lyric pushing forward into the next phrase. This second phrase, though, rhymes with phrase 1. Because it rhymes a little short of the mark, it is unbalanced and this is yet another tool for enhancing emotion. Phrase 3 is also 3 feet. A feeling of acceleration now sets in (remember the pace was set by the first phrase of 4 feet and we've now had 2 phrases of 3 feet). This feeling of increasing lyric speed is enhanced by rhyming phrase 3 with phrase 2. What a great place to set a lyric that requires a feeling of intensity and anguish! I think "Life can be unkind" is a great fit. Because of the setting, and the phrases before it, I heard this line as "things happen that I have no control over". The last two phrases now begin the process of lyric deceleration and focus attention on what is being said. They also set us up to feel an increased pace in the chorus.
Ok. Time for me to get off that soap box now! (Please keep in mind that these are just my thoughts.)
Some people write music because if feels and sounds right and some people write lyrics in exactly the same way. I, on the other hand, enjoy analyzing what makes good material work (both musically and lyrically). The internet is terrific for looking up songs and lyrics. I then take the lessons I've learned on-board and try to apply them in my own way to my music: sometimes I'm successful, sometimes I'm not. I follow the Pat Pattision school of lyric writing. In case you haven't heard his name before, Pat is Professor of Lyric Writing and Poetry at Berklee College of Music. Many regard him as one of the world's leading authorities on lyric writing. I hold him in high esteem and have been to a number of his weekend workshops. (That being said, though, I realize that I still have a long, long way to go when I look at some of the amazing lyrics that people have written over the years.) Pat's three books are my most valuable songwriting tools. They are starting to become tattered and torn from having been read and flicked through a million times.
Lastly, I must say that I wholeheartedly commend you on your comments. Your posts glow with professionalism. I found those comments that you made about my song ("How Do You Do It") a very valuable resource. The fact that you are prepared to take so much time to present your thoughts so clearly to those of us who are seeking critiques of our work is a tremendous asset to these forums. I can't speak for Josie, but I, personally, value all your input. Please do not stop
Best regards,
Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 11/05/10 08:03 PM.
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Hey Dan,
Looking forward to your next one. As you are, I'm picky on how things sound. Of course there's always room for improvement. This one was seriously mixed but I don't claim to be more than a student of that at this point. And every small triumph is good in that learning process.
"If you're into mixing, you put forth an effort to really learn how to do it."
I don't appreciate your talking down to me. You don't know what effort I am putting forth. It might be wise to remember that your opinion is simply that - your opinion. I have always and will continue to try and be supportive of you in your efforts because I respect your talent but I won't be talked down to by you or anyone else. Got it.
Daisy,
Thanks for listening. The mid range is always a challenge, I think even more so for a female voice. I would've like to have had a lower guitar but since I don't play electric guitar then I used what I had available in my RT's. I'm proud of this one. I like the way I panned it. So far I see you are quite the critiquer but I've yet to hear your work. I'm really anticipating hearing a song of yours using RB.
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Hi dcuny,
Thanks for listening - I think. grin. First off, I will warn you that I am not going to be as gracious as Noel about someone playing armchair quarterback and taking it upon yourself to rewrite my entire song without being asked. This is not your faith or your song. I stated very clearly that I wrote this song earlier this year to cheer myself up during a hard time. I expressed my faith and my song in my way. It makes me happy that others relate to it. I don't like the Spice Girls but they sold millions of records without me buying one. If you don't like it or understand it then I would suggest moving on rather than trying to critique it.
It's one thing to make a suggestion or two. You are coming off to me like one of those people who get off on critiquing other people's work just for the sake of doing it. That's going a bit far. Especially from someone who as yet has not posted a single example of your own original work using RB. I tend to take suggestions more seriously from someone whose work I respect.
I have been writing songs a very long time. Is every one a master piece - absolutely not. I don't pretend to know it all because life is learning. Am I a famous songwriter no but I've had cuts and publishing contracts. And I typically don't mind criticism too much because I've learned to follow my gut and If I don't agree ignore it. I worked long and hard to learn the craft of songwriting and paid my dues so if you're looking to debate - I don't share the need.
I'll leave it with this, even if your intentions were somehow well meant, I really do not want another indepth analysis of my work from you unless I ask for it after I hear yours.
Have a blessed day.
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Noel,
You sir, are not only a scholar but a gentleman.
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Noel and Josie....well said!
Marty
Music is what feelings sound like.
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Me oh my... sorry Josie if my observations and comments were taken as being critical. I certainly didn't mean to be unfair or sound harsh. From now on in, it's praise and praise only. Daisy 
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Daisy,
No one said praise and praise only except you.
If you're only willing to post if your critical observations and comments are agreed with then I'd say the problem is yours.
I'm only saying if you are going to do so much critiquing of every one elses work including mine - I'd like to hear some of yours.
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Quote:
Daisy,
No one said praise and praise only except you.
If you're only willing to post if your critical observations and comments are agreed with then I'd say the problem is yours.
I'm only saying if you are going to do so much critiquing of every one elses work including mine - I'd like to hear some of yours.
Well Josie...I'm a little late to the party, but let me say that I loved your song. Especially the harmonies and your use of the minor chord structure. I usually listen to a song first without looking at the lyrics just to get the "feel" of the song, and the whole time I was listening the first time through I kept thinking how the harmonies reminded me of Crosby, Stills (CSNY)..I'm a big fan! . I was also picking up a little bit of Stevie Nicks (also a big fan) in your vocal. Not too shabby, girl! Some nice stuff there. Keep up the good work. You'll just get better and better with every song.
As for the naysayers (the after-the-fact, "Monday mornng quarterbacks" of production and engineering,etc)...our buddy Dan (Shockwave) had one of the best comments I've heard on the subject, and I'm paraphrasing, but basically once your song is completed and put out there critiques are meaningless. You're obviously NOT incompetent to be writing and recording so what's the point in second guessing your creative decisions? As I've said before (not popularly either) just because you put a song on the User Showcase doesn't mean you're inviting a critical analysis necessarily...unless you request it. I thought the purpose of this forum was to show what different users are creating with the software. I'm personally more interested in the users inspiration for the song, and a little background on the lyrics. "A song can be written, produced, arranged, mixed, and mastered a million ways and it's all subjective personal taste. Not better or worse, right or wrong...just different." (...that quote from my own producer who had a wall full of platinum and a penned #1 hit to back it up) So all that being said...just keep creating what YOU like the way YOU like it and forget the rest. I personally like what your doing. Keep 'em coming.
Bob
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Quote:
First off, I will warn you that I am not going to be as gracious as Noel about someone playing armchair quarterback and taking it upon yourself to rewrite my entire song without being asked.
You are completely correct: I failed to pay attention to why you wrote the song, and provided unasked-for feedback. I apologize, and won't do it again.
Quote:
It's one thing to make a suggestion or two. You are coming off to me like one of those people who get off on critiquing other people's work just for the sake of doing it.
I understand where you're coming from. Again, I'm sorry, and I apologize. That's not the spirit in which it was offered.
Quote:
I have been writing songs a very long time.
There's no need to be defensive. Your work speaks for itself. I'm not looking for debate.
Quote:
I'll leave it with this, even if your intentions were somehow well meant, I really do not want another in-depth analysis of my work from you unless I ask for it after I hear yours.
They were well meant. I'm sorry they weren't received that way - but that's my fault, not yours.
And I assure you, you won't be asking after you hear any of my RT compositions. 
Peace!
Last edited by dcuny; 11/05/10 10:37 PM.
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Quote:
I don't appreciate your talking down to me. You don't know what effort I am putting forth. It might be wise to remember that your opinion is simply that - your opinion. I have always and will continue to try and be supportive of you in your efforts because I respect your talent but I won't be talked down to by you or anyone else. Got it.
As usual, text can mask intention. I NEVER meant to talk down to you Josie. I was really speaking in general terms. But I suppose I was wrong to assume what you're trying hard to do and what you're not. I've never really read you speak about anything when it comes to mixing. Song structure, lyrical content yes, but not so much as a word about mixing, be it other peoples work or your own. I guess I missed it. So I just assumed you're a writer primarily and not into mixing. And that's completely fine too. That's one of the huge benefits of software like biab- it allows people to put instrumentation to their writing and not really be bogged down with the chores of mixing if they don't want to. I took you as a tunesmith really, not as a production person who goes all too nuts over everything in that area. I'm sorry to make that assumtion. I just figured you weren't really interested in hearing my thoughts on it, which is why I suggested there's a wealth of information out there to further that cause if you wanted.
My initial post to your song was short and sweet. I could kick myself for becoming even remotely involved once again in specifics. I will NEVER do this again. But yeah, when I post my next song you can twist the screws if it'll make you feel better. But here and now, I'm done voicing any opinions or advice. I'll continue to post songs because I think it's good for potential customers to hear what can be done with this awesome software from the users. But a dialog? OVER.
Dan
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OK, now I think I understand what happened here, thanks to Hawgly's clarifying comments.
I have always just assumed that any work posted was "work in progress," and that while praise is certainly wished for, constructive criticism is also desired, to ultimately make better recordings. I now note that the new forum is "showcase," which implies a finished product , as Hawgly suggests. I also re-read Josie's initial post, and it does NOT request criticism or suggestions -- she's satisfied. Heck, maybe there should be TWO forums -- "Showcase" and "Workshop."
So, (even though it seems obvious that most of the postings here need some work here and there), I will be cautious in future to only make such comments if explicitly requested by the poster. I guess that I, and some others, stepped over a line that we couldn't see, Sorry, won't happen again.
Daisy...
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Thank you Bob, you made my night.
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Dan,
I don't twist the screws on anyone that's just not me. I am a huge fan of yours. I think you are one of the most talented writers on the forum. I hope you are not done with your opinions and advice. Misunderstanding. Apology accepted and offered.
Last edited by Sundance; 11/05/10 11:42 PM.
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All good Josie. Still though, I'll hold my tongue from now on. There is a forum here called tips and tricks. Maybe I'll check in there to offer further advice if someone asks. But not here anymore. Keep writing those great songs.
Dan
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On the issue of craft and use of the software...well done.
On the issue of religion, music, philosophy and 'other', I'll take a pass.
Of course I'm of the same opinion with Plato through Ayn Rand, from whoever through Blake. Don't use anything other than 'argument' to make a foray into a debate..
I don't appreciate a public forum as a platform for any type of religion, preaching or whatever. I understand it's hard not to do...
Good job, but for me, ethnocentric, and a bunch of other stuff.
I was never so sensitive about this, but I just pulled through after a tough 6 months and have a new point of view.
Anyways, not enough women here, and I hope you keep working and thinking, and looking at life ...through the eyes of a person not influenced by anything but nature and your observations of it as a person devoid of contact with the written word...
Just my 2 pence worth...from several deathbeds....
Keep smilin..
Oh, and no sense preaching....I'm impervious. LOL.
{I sat with a child last week,
She was 12 almost,
Leukemia they said...
Her Mom's heart was broke,
"Why... God?", her Daddy asked..
"Nature has her course",
and she is God,
Flood, Famine or Fire,
Life's not changed by us,
Nor by our prayers,
Just Because.}
If God listened, some church would have 300 year old healed, happy, productive members. The reality is, no matter who you are, you die at the same time as the rest...the question is ...
you get it. I don't need to ask.
At the end of the day
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
But who calls dat livin' when no gal'll give in
To no man what's nine hundred years
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
...Heck, maybe there should be TWO forums -- "Showcase" and "Workshop."...
Daisy...
You know, that's a very good idea. PG Music - what about it?
When I comment on peoples' songs I choose my words carefully because:
(1) I'm usually unsure as to what proficiency level the poster is at. For example, it would be impolite and destructive to heavily criticise a song's structure, arrangement, or recording, etc. when it's a song from a novice who has in fact far exceeded the levels usually associated with someone starting out. You wouldn't slam a seven year old for writing a brilliant poem because they're not (yet) up to the standard of a world renowned published prizewinner.
(2) I'm also unsure (unless the poster makes things clear) as to whether the poster is putting up a finished project or a work in progress they would genuinely like some help with.
I know I would quite like to post WIP projects when I feel I'm not doing justice to a piece, or lost my way with it, and would really like some outside input to help me carry out some surgery. Other times I feel I've finished a piece and very happy with it, i.e. I'm not going to tear it all apart and insert a middle eight, but I'm still open to comments about, say, the mastering.
If the two forums don't come to pass then I've made a mental note to make it clear when I next post a new song to state whether it's in WIP or Finished Goods!
John
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Hi John Conley,
It was really sweet of you to listen knowing that you don't care for the genre's message. This forum is my "home" not to worry, I'm not going anywhere. I appreciate your posts and enjoy that quirky humor too much. grin.
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Interesting and (IMHO) healthy dialog going on here. My thoughts follow:
1) no matter who you are or how good (or bad) you may be, once you put your work on public display, you certainly WILL be judged by those who see/hear it. If that is not OK, then it may be too risky to post in a public forum. Once you post, you lose control and you have to accept whatever happens after that.
2) There is a wide disparity of skill level among those who will review your work, and people tend to judge you as a peer, whether you are or not
3) in a perfect world people would take some pains to determine another's level of proficiency before passing judgment. As has been stated already, it is inappropriate to judge a hobbyist's work by the same standard used to judge a pro's work. Even among the pros, there is much disagreement about what constitutes quality.
4) as a general rule, praise is in order when a person stretches past yesterday's accomplishment, for that means progress is being made. But there is no way for the average listener to know if these submissions are the half-hearted efforts of somebody capable of better, or the whole-hearted efforts of somebody who is fully immersed in a growth spurt.
5) Free speech is a two way street. We are free to submit, and we are also free to critique. Punishing those who critique is no different than punishing those who submit. Both are equally offensive. May we all learn to walk both sides of the street with kindness and encouragement, but without patronizing.
6) honesty is generally well received as long as it is served up with a little grace. A pompous put-down will be seen by most as unnecessary and rude. However, people vary widely in where they draw the line between honesty and brutality. All who post here should realize that responses will be based on the responder's standards, not the poster's.
7) some people are hard-wired to praise while others seem hard-wired to criticize. This is normal. It is unrealistic to expect only positive reinforcement. Average the best and worst comments and find a functional reality somewhere in between... one that neither inflates your ego or deflates it, but which gives a new basis for moving forward.
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John Skyline and Pat,
Quite thoughtful.
Hopefully this will end this.
For the record, personally, a constructive friendly suggestion or two doesn't bother me. I may agree, disagree, use it now, later, or never.
However, I think when someone offers a critique that person should be mature enough to realize that the one being critiqued is under no obligation and may not agree with the critiquer's point of view.
Reacting with statements such as "oh, I see it's praise and praise only" is nothing more than an insulting cheap shot for not being agreed with. It has no place in grown up discussions no matter what anyone's level of expertise.
And finally I can not fathom why anyone would choose to spend time rewriting someone else's entire song when their time would be so much better spent working on their own ideas. It's much more fun to do your own.
Imho, it's a matter of common courtesy. And as an aside, it is a users showcase forum. Emphasis on users.
That's all I have to say on this. I'm done. If someone wants to start a new topic solely for discussion of critiques then I kindly ask that you do so and let this end here. Thank you.
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Hi Josie,
I hope you don't mind but I was scrolling through the Users' Forum and saw that 799 people had listened to "Oh Me Oh My". I tried, but I couldn't stop myself. I felt an overwhelming desire to be the 800th person. This is such a great song. I've listened to it about 20 times now and I'm loving it.
You're a very skillful songwriter.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Josie,
Great song, as has already been noted. I thought the mix was pretty good except of course for the vocal being a tad low. I struggle with mixing myself, tunnel vision on whatever track I'm concerned about at the time seems to be the major issue. And of course with the limited resources that most of us have, it's not the easiest thing to mix and try to master a complete song that you've written, sang, arranged, played, gotten sick of, thrown away, brought back for a rewrite etc.
As was mentioned, cliche's are hard to get around especially when you are a novice like me, and you are often just trying to get the thing done, like me. I know that some songs were written over a period of years, by two or more writers, then we expect to do all the above in a week or less, while the inspiration is still there.
dcuny, mentioned several lyrical things, and I have to agree with most of them, give the song a rest and revisit some possible changes to the lyrics that will enhance the song and not detract from it. Every listener is different, and songwriters listen differently than the average Walmart shopper. Which is why there is so much on the air that should not be there. The execs know that most people don't care as long as it sounds good, with a different personality singing it.
I like the song a lot, the chord structure, the ballad style, the vocal treatments etc.
Rob
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Hi Toucher Rob, Thank you for listening. Having read the thread you already know we disagree  so I'll just say this: Attention Walmart Shoppers........  This Song is finished.
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A Lovely song, Josie. Nice job!!
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here is my tuppence worth.There should it seems be two users showcase of songs because it appears that criticism doesnt appear to be accepted unless its in praise of that persons work.The other way to do it is what Hawgley has instructed and thats when he puts his composition up its not for critique but to show how biab is being used I like both ideas.Frankie
ps.Just from my experience:If there are writers here who are serious about putting their work to publishers etc then be prepared for in depth criticism thats even if they bother to listen to it some post the work back unopened I know Ive gone through that process even though Ive had covers of a few of my songs.If on the other hand there are writers who write for the fun of it then enjoy the creative process because for me anyway there is nothing better for the soul.
AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
processor 2.51 ghz
1 87 gb ram
windows 7 Ultimate
yamaha rev 500 effects
tacam DP-24 DAW
Samson Resolv NF monitors
Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard
Fender semi accoustic guitar
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John,I understand your reasons for this little rant but this forum is made up of all sorts of people some with religious faith others(like you it appears)with none.When those of us with that faith put it down in a song its part of our creativeness and should not be limited because you might feel you are being preached at "dont listen to the songs".Cheers Frankie 
AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
processor 2.51 ghz
1 87 gb ram
windows 7 Ultimate
yamaha rev 500 effects
tacam DP-24 DAW
Samson Resolv NF monitors
Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard
Fender semi accoustic guitar
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tributeman,
Your points have already been addressed earlier in this thread. If you wish to continue that discussion please start a new thread on that topic.
As a matter of fact, I'm frankly tired of this so I'm going to start one myself.
Anyone who wants to discuss critiguing please see the new thread. I'll call it critiguing ettiquette.
All others, thanks for listening.
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AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
processor 2.51 ghz
1 87 gb ram
windows 7 Ultimate
yamaha rev 500 effects
tacam DP-24 DAW
Samson Resolv NF monitors
Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard
Fender semi accoustic guitar
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Hi Josie,
I went back and listened again and again. I love it.
Each time I wait for the "Oh me, Oh my" part and it always surprises me.
Your 3 part harmony over the lyric lines are so cool.
Listening to this makes me smile.
Wayne,
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So this is the thread that has made it so everybody can only say great things about songs. I was wondering why most people didn't leave feedback for songs even when it was asked for.
This thread made everybody hypersenseitive and afraid to say how the really feel. It chased off most all those who were willing to help. Just look at the threads before and after this one. The ones after this are mostly (not all) puffy ego booters!
If you don't want to hear the truth abouts how others really feel about your songs, don't post them in the public square.
Saying here is my song only stroke my ego please is a bit childish and not going to happen.
I like the idea of two forums one "Showcase" no commenting allowed. One "workshop" for constructive critique.
BTW: I had some things to say about the song I really liked and some things thay may have helped, but will not post them for fear I would upset the OP.
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Quote:
So this is the thread that has made it so everybody can only say great things about songs. I was wondering why most people didn't leave feedback for songs even when it was asked for.
This thread made everybody hypersenseitive and afraid to say how the really feel. It chased off most all those who were willing to help. Just look at the threads before and after this one. The ones after this are mostly (not all) puffy ego booters!
If you don't want to hear the truth abouts how others really feel about your songs, don't post them in the public square.
Saying here is my song only stroke my ego please is a bit childish and not going to happen.
I like the idea of two forums one "Showcase" no commenting allowed. One "workshop" for constructive critique.
BTW: I had some things to say about the song I really liked and some things thay may have helped, but will not post them for fear I would upset the OP.
PRearden,
To my mind, I don't think that it's possible to be more totally wrong about the purpose of the User Showcase Forum or about this thread.
I have a great deal of respect for Josie and I could not let your unjust comments pass without saying something.
Over my couple of years here, all of PG Music's forums have consisted of a very obliging and friendly community of BIAB/RB/PTP users who have given their time and expertise freely to help those struggling with absolutely any aspect of the software or music in general. Even though you haven't been around here too long, I feel certain that you've read enough of the different forums to "get" what I'm saying. Your post is different from most. When I read it, it sounded antagonistic. Maybe one day you'll need some assistance with the programs or some music and, as as result, you'll personally come to appreciate what a fine collection of knowledgeable and supportive people "live" here.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,624
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Jan 19th, 2020
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