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jazzmammal #97749 12/19/10 06:52 AM
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Quote:

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Unless you have way somewhat more than a 500 dollar walmart computer, (like add a zero) one would have to be a masochist to even think of using RealBand as a "DAW". Ha.




What? What!?! What are you talking about with your 14 posts?? This is the absolute dumbest statement I think I've ever seen on these forums. Get outta here, troll. There's pros here who do this for a living who've been using Power Tracks and now Real Band for years. It doesn't do every possible thing but it's more than adequate for a lot of reasons.

Don't believe this idiot.

Bob



Bob,
Why do I feel that we are soul mates?


John
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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silvertones #97750 12/19/10 09:04 AM
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I still have a Gateway from 2002, XP home, Pentium IV, 2.0 with 768mb RAM and a C drive that's 40gb. I added a 250gb second internal drive. Audigy 2 card. I never did make that big RAM upgrade. I added 512mb when memory cost a fortune.
BIAB 2009.5, Realband and PTPA 12 runs fine on it.
The box is as big a Fridge and weighs a ton. lol

I run everything now on a 2006 Gateway Core 2 Duo 2.13, 2 gb Ram, SB X-Fi audiocard and 2X500gb RAID drive system.
Also bought 2 Acer 22" widescreen Monitors. They're still working great after 3 years. They were $149.00 each.

Wayne,
(I still don't know what RAID does)

kennydanner #97751 12/19/10 09:27 AM
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I did go into a music store today while I was in the "big city" (Pat - it was Jackson Music in W-S) and am now trying a TASCAM US-122mkII USB audio interface. And it came packaged with Cubase LE5. So I will see what that DAW does also.
Kenny




dang, Kenny! I was at Jackson Music yesterday too, buying strings for my guitars! You may have seen me.. I was the one with no talent...

;-)

redguitars #97752 12/19/10 10:22 AM
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There are different variations of RAID.

Basicly it copies the data over more than one drive (or partition) to make it so you can recover more data if one drives fails. Redundant writing. Done a few different ways, which is why there are often numbers after the term RAID.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
rharv #97753 12/19/10 06:35 PM
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My process is to create the basic arrangement in BIAB, import into RealBand where I can regenerate bits and pieces until I get every track playing what I want it to and then I save the individual tracks to wave and open in my DAW (Reaper)then I add my guitar, vocals and then mix

Zan Cantwell #97754 12/20/10 06:45 AM
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My process is to create the basic arrangement in BIAB, import into RealBand where I can regenerate bits and pieces until I get every track playing what I want it to and then I save the individual tracks to wave and open in my DAW (Reaper)then I add my guitar, vocals and then mix



Why go through all that? RB can do the same. Sounds the same. The only reason would be some proprietary effects that I can see.


John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
silvertones #97755 12/20/10 10:54 PM
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"Why go through all that? RB can do the same. Sounds the same. The only reason would be some proprietary effects that I can see. "


Speed, ease of use, staying out of anger management classes due to software.



...the koolaid of BIAB must be tasty. It does what it does well. But if you are in a "pro" environment, where knocking stuff out in a hurry is what is required, then Real Band is not the "DAW" for you. Genius. There are better programs out there to edit clips that are not linear. Cut a segment, move it where you want. Real Band is not that. Change pitch/tempo in real time with no artifacts and no useless set of confusing choices, Real Band is not that. Take a loop and stretch it to more measures or shorten it quickly, Real Band is not that. Etc, etc, etc. Real Band is very linear. It produces good quality linear tracks with high levels of realism. However, it is a resource hog that requires more than an off the shelf 500 dollar computer to do the basics quickly. Not being able to stop playback because of CPU usage is a programming issue, hot a system/hardware one. That stop button ought to have top priority in the program. It doesn't. So, if it doesn't "stop" playback, but stutters to the end, and the only way to stop it is to kill the process, that is a programming issue, and a very annoying one. The "stop" button is actually the "click and pray it stops, or wait 5 minutes" button. So, if I am a "troll", you can't handle the truth. Real Tracks is the only unique feature, and it is saddled with a windows 95 interface that almost makes it not worth using.

Last edited by Bill Melater; 12/20/10 10:58 PM.
Bill Melater #97756 12/21/10 06:36 AM
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OK Bill I'll give you this. RB indeed is not all the things that Traktion or Acid are but those programs don't do what RB can do either.If you're into making a soup of 500 little cut and paste clips then indeed RB is not the tool.It's the same with any skilled trade. There are tools that are best suited for the type of work you do. Plumbers don't use the same tools as Electricians. Similar maybe but not the same.Only you can figure out what tools you need. I do believe though that you have no clue as to how to use RB and do not posses the skills to evaluate RB.
Take a look around these Forums. You'll see that there are a number of us using these programs and answering all the questions. We have learned how to use these VERY complex programs.We also have some very satisfied customers that once some of their mistakes have been corrected are totally delighted.There are many PROS here that know how to use these tools. We also know when to use another tool.We don't say" Oh RB/BIAB can't do this like Traktion can so it must be a piece of crap".Everything in life has it's uses and limitations.
So now I must say that if you've concluded that RB/BIAB is crap go somewhere else.
Thanks


John
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
rharv #97757 12/21/10 07:07 AM
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RAID, Thanks rharv,
Wayne,

Bill Melater #97758 12/21/10 08:56 AM
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Quote:

"Why go through all that? RB can do the same. Sounds the same. The only reason would be some proprietary effects that I can see. "


Speed, ease of use, staying out of anger management classes due to software.



...the koolaid of BIAB must be tasty. It does what it does well. But if you are in a "pro" environment, where knocking stuff out in a hurry is what is required, then Real Band is not the "DAW" for you. Genius. There are better programs out there to edit clips that are not linear. Cut a segment, move it where you want. Real Band is not that. Change pitch/tempo in real time with no artifacts and no useless set of confusing choices, Real Band is not that. Take a loop and stretch it to more measures or shorten it quickly, Real Band is not that. Etc, etc, etc. Real Band is very linear. It produces good quality linear tracks with high levels of realism. However, it is a resource hog that requires more than an off the shelf 500 dollar computer to do the basics quickly. Not being able to stop playback because of CPU usage is a programming issue, hot a system/hardware one. That stop button ought to have top priority in the program. It doesn't. So, if it doesn't "stop" playback, but stutters to the end, and the only way to stop it is to kill the process, that is a programming issue, and a very annoying one. The "stop" button is actually the "click and pray it stops, or wait 5 minutes" button. So, if I am a "troll", you can't handle the truth. Real Tracks is the only unique feature, and it is saddled with a windows 95 interface that almost makes it not worth using.




Ok Bill, it's Christmas. I'll take your points in order.
One. what's with the comment about Biab kool aid? We're not talking Biab. The two programs are related but RB is not Biab.

Two. You're talking a lot about loops. True, RB is not going to compete with Acid but neither is Acid going to compete with the Real Tracks or adding brand new Biab midi parts, especially a soloist in any of several thousand styles.
This falls under the concept of using the proper tool for a given job.

Three. You speak about the time it takes to get something done. Let me talk about that a bit. I use Adobe Audition a lot. I used to think Power Tracks, now Real Band were really slow and clunky until I discovered that while the immediate workflow is much faster in Audition, the overall time to complete a project is about the same due to how both programs handle the temp project files. Audition keeps all the temp files until you go to save the project at the end and then goes through a very elaborate and time consuming "flushing temp files" thing. A complex project comprising say 17 tracks with a lot of cutting, pasting and waveform editing can take 10-15 minutes or more to do the whole flushing thing to finally save and close a project. Real Band does all that as it goes along so while the immediate workflow is much slower, there's none of the flushing at the end. You just save the project as normal and move on. I can't speak for other DAW's but that's my take on these two.

Four. This is the biggie. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say a $500 computer can't handle the program and it won't stop properly. Do you see anyone else complaining about this? Did you search the forum to make sure? The answer is no, nobody has that problem so what does that tell you? Instead of making these completely incorrect and inflammatory statements trashing the program (that's what a troll does)why not simply state your problem and ask for help? Everybody here including me is happy to sort it out for you.
You're new here so you don't know everybody. Rharv is one of our resident experts on this program, reread his answer to you. He has his own studio, does tons of recording using yes <gasp> Real Band and knows almost everything there is to know about all the editing functions and there's plenty of them. He is also a website designer and computer programmer. I know a lot of it too because I also use RB all the time. So does Silvertones. Is it the only program any of us uses? Of course not, different tools for different needs and all that.

It can most certainly be true that RB is not the best thing for you based on your personal needs and that's fair enough but to trash it like you did based on incomplete information and what appears to be a major configuration issue with your system is unfair. You're saying this: "The "stop" button is actually the "click and pray it stops, or wait 5 minutes" button".
This is definitely your problem not the program, something in your setup is causing this.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
jazzmammal #97759 12/21/10 05:26 PM
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My main issues with mixing in RB is not being able to slide or nudge entire tracks with mouse and no envelope recording for pan,fades and volume, also recording multiple takes in RB is cumbersome. Dont get me wrong though, I love RB for what it can do.

Zan Cantwell #97760 12/21/10 06:31 PM
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Highlite what you want to move, Hold ctrl and click on a track and nudge (or slide) it all you want. Use the Audio edit window and zoom in for better results, but you can do it in the main view too.

Use the piano roll for creating graphic envelopes. Many of us here are wishing for the ability to draw in the tracks window.. here's hoping! Jump on the wishlist for this.

Not sure why recording multiple takes is cumbersome, can you elaborate?

RB - It's not perfect (none are) but it's very servicable. There isn't much I can't get done in it .. and if I can't, I use whatever I need to get it done. And keep on trackin'.



Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
rharv #97761 12/22/10 05:48 AM
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To everyone that may struggle with RB.
Did you know that there's a complete manual in the RB folder. There's a lot to read but may help give a better impression.


John
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php
silvertones #97762 12/22/10 11:41 AM
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One thing i find is that people in general that use DAW type programs all have a favorite. That is normal for sure. I have three i regularly use, Rb being one of them. I find that one does one thing better and one the other. One thiong is sure, we all tend to get fiesty if someone disses our fav.

RB and PT get a bad rap alot, due to the older style GUI, and the fact that they are rather "Young" in feature sets compared to a apples for apples chart of some of the bigger names. But if you take a closer look you find that it is also more mature in other areas. Also that the methodology of how they handle some tasks is just a tad different from the main stream programs like sonar,cubase, reaper, samplitude, and so forth. The RT/Rd development is an area they have the competition cold, but not everyone likes that. If you come over from a platform like reaper with it's deep layered routing RB looks light weight. Fact is most of that is not really that necessary in the average tracking session.

RB does have buss routing, not as mulit layered but if you learn it it works fine. RB does not have Sonar, or Acids groove clip or looping ability, but it will handle audio very nicely, and has a few decent loop tools. I to have had RB lock up and studder to the end of the song, but each time that happen the problem was traced to a pluggin that when removed the issue went away. This is in part RB fault, since it does not handle plugs as well as other programs do. But there are certainly alternatives that can be used. I have also had Reaper lock up and crash on me on several occasion, and this is why i almost never use it.

Reaper in particular seems to have a rabid following. It is a powerful app, but not perfect either. But i think people who use it like the feel of being involved, much like some here do. The ability to have regular meaningful input and the ability to say things like " I like what Justin is doing with the program" it is a personal attachment sort of thing. Kinda like when a sports fan says we won this weekend!!!

I have had issues with RB, Reaper, and MC from cake, but i still own them, and use them. One application will never have every feature perfect, each will have it's angle. Whatever you love to use use! I do not think it makes Bill a troll since he has issues with RB, and voiced them, but he certainly is frustrated, and asking for help would be more productive. Hey if he wants to move from BiaB to RB to Reaper to Cubase to Sonar, to Traction, to Samplitude, to Audition and polish with a full dose of Sound Forge so be it. If one wants to start and finish in PT let it be! Heck some of the greatest songs ever recorded were on old 4 track tape machines.


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Rob Helms #97763 12/22/10 12:15 PM
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Quote:

If you come over from a platform like reaper with it's deep layered routing RB looks light weight. Fact is most of that is not really that necessary in the average tracking session.

Reaper in particular seems to have a rabid following. It is a powerful app, but not perfect either. But i think people who use it like the feel of being involved, much like some here do. The ability to have regular meaningful input and the ability to say things like " I like what Justin is doing with the program" it is a personal attachment sort of thing. Kinda like when a sports fan says we won this weekend!!!

I do not think it makes Bill a troll since he has issues with RB, and voiced them, but he certainly is frustrated, and asking for help would be more productive. and finish in PT let it be! Heck some of the greatest songs ever recorded were on old 4 track tape machines.




I think you're right on with this post Robh. Apps such as BIAB/RB, Jamstix, Reaper, etc. are going to have a more rabid following simply because - besides being good programs - the creators of the program stay personally involved with their customer base and listen and respond openly to their customers' experiences with the programs. I agree that Bill is not a troll simply because he has issues with RB, but at the same time he will find that he will get more valuable help by not categorically ripping the program's worthiness and abilities. And when comparing RB's capabilities to other DAWs, I think the 80/20 rule applies. I certainly think that RB will do 80% or more, and do it well, of what most will require from a DAW. It's unique strengths lie in it's BIAB-related capabilites, as well as the superb help available from both the user community and PG Music itself.

Terry


BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
multitracker #97764 12/22/10 12:47 PM
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Nice follow up Terry, I don't rip folks for liking other programs, or for mentioning them. I don't think it is cool to bash the home team, and offer something else as the holy grail on their own web site, nor is it cool to post links to other products on this or any other site as the answer to issues here.

We should however be less quick to rip back just because someone does not like some issues with PG. It is my personal view that PG needs to hear what others think, if all we do is tell them how great they are (and it is true) then the issues we want addressed will never be.

Let's take a quick look at business reality. If we do not complain, and PG doesn't slowly fix the problems, one version at a time, what would be the driving factor in the year to year profit bass they need to survive in the market place? If they went in and actually added all the things we want, completely upgraded the GUI, gave us twice the RT/Rd sets/ added twice the styles all in one upgrade, plus killed 99% of the bugs and overcame any real stability issues, packaged it on a hard drive for 2012 what the heck would we buy in 2013?

I am not suggesting for all the conspiracy theorist out there that PG holds back on us in some evil scheme, to suck out our hard earned cash year after year. But doing every fix known to man and every upgrade ever mentioned at one time would be a programming nightmare and not possible. Still timed release and development is a business plan. Give the user what you can reasonably add in a year version, and keep future development moving forward. Know what i mean Vern?


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Rob Helms #97765 12/22/10 01:05 PM
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Quote:

...what the heck would we buy in 2013?



Basing a business model on "fixes" isn't good in the long run, and I don't certainly don't think that's how PG Music does things.

People make purchasing decisions based on what a product can do for them, not on it being less terrible than the prior release. If BiaB were feature complete and bug-free, there are many things that could be added that would make a yearly update attractive. RealTracks, MIDI styles, new time signatures - these are all compelling reasons for upgrading.


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
Rob Helms #97766 12/22/10 01:07 PM
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I suspect that PGMusic is fully aware of what the competition has to offer, as well as their strengths and weaknesses.

Since you can only get RB by purchasing BIAB, then as far as I'm concerned, it's a free add-on to BIAB. I think it's a pretty powerful piece of free software.

And when you get down to it, I think you're really just paying for the RealTracks, RealDrums, and MIDI styles, as evidenced by the point-five releases at mid-year where the update to the program is a free download, but you have to purchase the new RTs and RDs to take advantage of it.

But that's just my opinion.


John

Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD
Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA

BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK

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jford #97767 12/23/10 07:26 AM
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Unless and until the "other" DAW applications develop and introduce Auto-Accompaniment features as good as the ones in BB and RB, I think that any comparisons lack the necessary common-denominator.

But I'm not one to ask for one tool in my toolbox that does it all anyway. The Swiss Army Knife or the Leatherman Tools are dandy little gadgets that can solve problems simply because they are compact and always available to those who carry them. And I love my Leatherman tool. But I wouldn't pick it to do a valve job...

From the beginning I have always viewed the various softwares available to us for music making as simply being tools and have purchased and used them as I saw fit and needed to accomplish goals and objectives. Some have stood the test of time here, getting updated, others have fallen by the wayside.

At the end of the day, nobody on God's Green Earth is going to be able to tell you which software tools you used to create your project if you did your job right.

It is all simply pcm digital audio.


--Mac

Mac #97768 12/23/10 08:59 AM
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To me anyone who argues that this DAW or that DAW is the BEST is not very experienced at using digital Audio.
My biggest complaint is to come here and bash BIAB/RB. If these programs serve no purpose to you then leave the Forum. If they do serve a purpose but there are things you'd like to change put it in the wish list. If you need constructive help many of us will help. Just don't come here and bitch about something you know nothing about.


John
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