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I have had 'users' send me a private message and seek help after trying to send them to live help.

I remember the one, who obviously balked at the update, and found the previous version of the software on-line, for free. He told me that the users on the board were almost totally against spending anything on the update (July version) because it was a waste of time, so he was going to just keep using his current version.

We also get a LOT of people who post less than 10 times, who ask a question, don't wait for the answer, or who don't say they even read the answer. Sometimes you go to great lengths to answer some question and then they never seem to come back.

I'm just more suspicious, because someone who is smart went to the trouble to search the net, find my email address and send me a rant that he was using the latest version for free and that we were all morons sitting around waiting for our hard drives in the mail. He then told me how to get 2010.5 for free, and that the forum would give you all the advise you needed. No need for support.

Perhaps I'm more sensitive since the cancer and brush with 'mortality', or the disabling side effects, drugs, and on-going monthly screening while holding my breath. I certainly have far less patience than before, if I had any then. People who are having a melt down over minutiae seem somehow frivolous, though I admit when I worked feeling the same about my family when I'd dealt with deaths at work.


John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:

Quote:

So, they're faced with two choices, they get stolen to death or they get expensed to death.


BiaB has an outstanding community on the forums, and that's part of what makes buying the software a compelling purchase. (In addition to being a great program with a liberal pricing model and responsive customer support).




I think these two factors rank at or near the top here. The pricing model is flexible, the program is reasonably priced, and combined with the 30-day guarantee makes it easy to make the purchasing decision. Combine this with customer support that feels like you're dealing with real human beings rather than a machine with programmed response; most people are more than willing to pay for this kind of value.

Terry


BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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I’m happy to say that I got in on BIAB all the way back to the days when you could get the whole program on a couple of floppies. I downloaded the demo, loved it and bought it.

I’ve bought the upgrades every time up until 2009. I haven’t been able to afford the upgrades since then, even though some of the changes made were changes I asked for, (in particular the ability to use bluegrass styles the way they’re written, instead of the way they were programmed previously, aka 8th’s vs 16th’s).

If we want companies like PG to be around in the future, then we have to support them by BUYING their product, not stealing it. I admire PG for not taking draconian measures to prevent software theft, because someone will always find a way around the “anti-theft” measures. And that would only create hassles for legitimate users. (Anyone used LOGIC with the “dongle”? If you haven’t, trust me, you don’t want to!)

So even though I could conveniently click on the link that was provided in the first post by John and jump up 3 upgrades, I won’t.

I’ll wait until I can afford to buy it. If that day doesn’t come, I’ll continue to use BIAB 2009 and still have one of the best programs available for musicians.

I’ll also know that I supported a relatively small company that has a passion for music.

And I can hope they’ll be around for many more years to come because others have supported it too.

P.S. John, ...... Just because we know they're thieves around doesn't mean we need to put a note on the front door telling them the key to the door is under the flower pot on the front porch, .................. aka the link you provided. The least we can do is make them look for it!

Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 12/29/10 03:06 AM.
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Quotes my kids about a year ago...when exhorted to use Open Office..."geez Dad every moron knows you can get Word just by using any of the torrents." I found all the top searches of wanting to buy the software were pirated. In fact the only link that showed up near the top was paid for by pgmusic.

I also was told some other stuff with my now 21 year old son hovering over my shoulder....see Dad..this one can't be the software, it's there for idiots, the size is wrong, it's a virus for sure. And if it says "Nekkid pics of teen star ...and the size isn't right for 2 pics at least then that's some virus too.

That being said, two friends have computers with illegal versions of xp, they bought the boxes off some friend's kid who makes them, one was running an Elvis tribute show and his soundcard quit working. I looked at what was there and the computer on bootup told him he probably was running an illegal version..then it disabled his Gina card drivers that always worked. NOTHING would let him download and install new drivers. He even found the old ones and they wouldn't work. He went out and bought xp, reformatted his drive (I wish he didn't phone me every ten minutes...while doing that) and then voila, the card worked. Go figure.

I guess with 500 CD's kicking around and all legit software I'm a sort of puritan, heck even the biab songs I have found on-line I don't use the melodies anyway, just backing.


John Conley
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...It's the same problem with the idea of creating an .xxx domain extension - if it ever happened, the first thing that would take place would be that it would be locked down so no one could get to it...



Huh? I would disagree with this; it would make it easier to lock down such access for minors and for those who would rather not see such material. Moot point, I suppose.

I would cast a vote for a vBulletin-based forum; the "thanks" tools, contact tools, etc. are far superior to many other forum engines. Most Internet users are also well aware of this forum engine, being members of at least one vBulletin-based forum site. This way, they would accept the requirement to register as just another forum engine requirement.


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I agree with the above reference that registering be required for site visitors, as many software producers require. I was pretty surprised at the number of unregistered are here compared to registered.


Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.


Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Hi John,

I would not help a software pirate. But how do you know when they come and ask a question?

How can you make sure someone is a registered user when they ask for help?

If they can lie about their non-purchase of a product, they can certainly lie about the fact that they are registered so I voted "no" on both of those questions. This would have to involve PG Music and they would have to spend the time and effort to make sure everyone who said they are a registered user actually was a registered user. A simple e-mail check wouldn't do since many people have multiple e-mail accounts.

I've heard the argument and I suppose some software pirates will eventually buy the product, and I'm sure others do not. I can't rationalize the fact that some do eventually buy it to approve the practice. PG Music offers a perfectly good demo of the product for those who are curious, and when they ask me about it, I always refer them to PG Music and recommend that they download the demo.

On the other hand, I get some very curious people who really want to know about BiaB before they buy. I guess they choose to ask me questions because I am not PG Music or perhaps because they think I wrote BiaB (I wish I did). I always help them as much as I can and then direct them to PG Music and suggest they download the demo.

I'm often amazed at people who don't think twice about stealing someone else's software, and yet go ballistic if someone stole a song they wrote or anything else. What happened to "do unto others"?

Unfortunately there is no way to copy protect software without punishing the legitimate users. A company has to make that decision and more often than not, they go without copy protection.

An example of punishment. I bought a multi-fx pedal for my guitar a year or so ago. It came with a free copy of Cubase LE. The Cubase LE came with a "software dongle" which seriously affected my computer in a negative way even when I wasn't trying to run Cubase. It locked things up, made all my MIDI programs non-functional, and wouldn't even load Cubase LE correctly. Fortunately I made a "Ghost" disk image of my hard drive before I installed it, and was able to revert back to the pre-installation condition.

I really was curious about Cubase since my preferred sequencer was purchased by another company who introduced bugs in it back in 04 and they still haven't gotten all of them out. Thanks to the lame Cubase LE copy protection scheme, I won't even consider buying Cubase. That's the peril of using copy protection. True you won't have as many pirates, but on the other hand, there are potential legitimate users that will not buy your product. Which is worse?

So what's the answer? I wish I knew. If I did, I'd patent it and make some serious money.


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Quote:

PG Music offers a perfectly good demo of the product for those who are curious, and when they ask me about it, I always refer them to PG Music and recommend that they download the demo.




Hi Bob. There is not a demo any longer, and hasn't been for a few versions. Here is the Sales FAQ on the subject:

3. Do you have a Band-in-a-Box demo?

We don't have a demo program available for download currently since the program is quite large with all the RealTracks and RealDrums, however we do have a 30 day money-back guarantee. You can watch our video demonstrations at our Band-in-a-Box Demo page. You can also listen to hundreds of audio demos of Band-in-a-Box at our RealTracks pages, and Band-in-a-Box Add-ons pages.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Citaat:


Hi Bob. There is not a demo any longer, and hasn't been for a few versions. Here is the Sales FAQ on the subject:

3. Do you have a Band-in-a-Box demo?

We don't have a demo program available for download currently since the program is quite large with all the RealTracks and RealDrums, however we do have a 30 day money-back guarantee. You can watch our video demonstrations at our Band-in-a-Box Demo page. You can also listen to hundreds of audio demos of Band-in-a-Box at our RealTracks pages, and Band-in-a-Box Add-ons pages.





I think a MIDI-only demo of BiaB will be more than adequate to decide wether the software will work for you or not. You get the feeling and workflow of the program and you will experience the ease of use to come from "nothing" to "something". Include a couple of different MIDI styles, let them have save functionality so people can work out songs in their DAW. Limit the demo to 30 days.

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Huh? I would disagree with this; it would make it easier to lock down such access for minors and for those who would rather not see such material.



That's exactly why it isn't happening - those making money don't want to be restricted to an easily locked down domain, and aren't going to do it voluntarily. Thus the parallel with asking users to use an "unregistered" forum - what registered user wants to give support to someone who's announcing themselves as a warez user?


-- David Cuny
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Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
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Interesting and multi-faceted discussion. Personally I would not help anyone hack software or movies or recordings, and it lowers my opinion of a person when I see that they use hacked materials. I bought my first copy of BIAB years ago and have bought all updates since. It was a very inexpensive program originally, but has gotten more spendy (as they say here in Oregon) as it has gotten better over time. As a Macintosh user I thought for a while that usable development for me had come to an end, but the current form is great and very usable. My main software, Digital Performer, uses an i-lok key for registration and security and I have only experienced minor problems with that. Almost all these companies (BIAB, MOTO, CUBASE, ETC. and even ADOBE-photoshop, have gone to yearly and semi-yearly updates to generate a steady income stream that enables continuation and development of their programs.

I have a different opinion concerning song copyrights, the original laws were intended to protect usage for 20-30 years but vested interests (relatives and publishers) have continually lobbied congress to extend these copyrights for what seems like perpetuity. Of course, countries like China and others have no such laws and no uniform court and legal system of enforcement. So as the economy goes global such things are even more clouded.

Regarding online aliases. I think people should be required to register under their own names, and avatars etc. should only be for fantasy and dating sites where it makes sense. They have done this at the JUST PLAIN FOLKS website just by request of the founder and the spam has decreased and the courtesy level has increased.

As to political correctness, humor is one thing and mean-spiritedness is another. Usually but not always it's possible to tell the difference. Also as our world and awareness changes we have to change to. Often humor is used to mask or fears and dislike of a group. There was a rash of French jokes when they didn't want to join in the Iraq War. I hear a lot of Muslim jokes and towel-head jokes and comments which I don't think are funny. But you also hear Irish telling Irish jokes etc. So it's the context and the perceived intent (humor or denigration) that makes a difference. Some people are just not aware that making jokes about mental and physical handicaps is a thing of the past. If you go to a Comedy Club you check your political correctness at the door (for the most part) but if you want to post up Uncle Bobs joke that got a laugh at the bar you may get an earful of PC in return.

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Well I might have a different view about this subject, so here it is.

As a teacher for jazz guitar I get confrontated with students owning illegal copies of BIAB on a regular basis. The point is: they usually have very old copies, like BIAB 10 or 12, usually PRE-Realtracks.
When I turn on my computer and we practice along with the newest version of BIAB they go "WOW" all the time. "That sounds completely different than what I have, how do you do that"? Then I tell them that these are Realtracks, played by Real pro musicians and I tell them the PGmusic website adress, where they usually buy the stuff then.

I think PGmusic has a great tactic with copy-protection etc. EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks. Nobody downloads 80GB from a torrent not knowing if they get the parts all together, if it is offered at all. In this matter I think the stolen Software is like a Demo which helps pirates getting in touch with a programm they usually start buying months or years later.

I think that`s why PGmusic doesn`t have a copyprotection. They just don`t need it, they convince us with quality. If you want the Realtracks you need to buy it anyway. So I congrat PGmusic for their decicion (I know its a money issue also to put a copyprotection on;-) not to bother us with USB dongles, register licencing like Adobe, which never works and you have to have a stolen serial to make the legal bought copy work again, or other unnessecary stuff like that.

I tell my students to buy it and they do, cause they hear how good it is. I also have a link with a recommondation from my website. Man, i should get paid for the advertising, LOL.

Sandra


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I think PGmusic has a great tactic with copy-protection etc. EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks. Nobody downloads 80GB from a torrent not knowing if they get the parts all together, if it is offered at all. In this matter I think the stolen Software is like a Demo which helps pirates getting in touch with a programm they usually start buying months or years later.

I think that`s why PGmusic doesn`t have a copyprotection. They just don`t need it, they convince us with quality. If you want the Realtracks you need to buy it anyway. So I congrat PGmusic for their decicion (I know its a money issue also to put a copyprotection on;-) not to bother us with USB dongles, register licencing like Adobe, which never works and you have to have a stolen serial to make the legal bought copy work again, or other unnessecary stuff like that.

Sandra




excellent point, Sandra. ALthough I'm sure some die-hard pirates WOULD take time to download the whole thing. But the size probably does slow down the efforts of most casual pirates. I have friends from Peru who tell me that there you can buy warez at the mall! The kiosk has a computer set up and they copy from their stash to CD as the customer waits... but even in that case, they wouldn't make much money filling up a huge number of CDs or providing a USB drive at pirate prices...

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Good point, however you know that down the line some hacker will break up those 80 gigs into manageable pieces that can be downloaded. They’ll probably separate the program from the RT’s and divide them into smaller DLs. I just wish these hackers would put their expertise to better use!

I have never known anyone who pirates software actually go out and buy it. After all they got it free. Pirates could care less about integrity and/or whether or not a company goes out of business. Look what they have done to the CD industry!

For the record I do not have any pirated software on any our computers. Nor do I have any illegally Dled music. I’m a firm believer against that. If I suspect that anyone asking a question is a pirate I will not respond.

Have a Happy New Year


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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I'm thinking there is more of a likelyhood that a pirate would burn copies for his friends, more often than buy the program. I'm sure there are exceptions.


The steady stream of improvements keeps PGMusic ahead of the game.
The steady stream of new technology makes old versions obsolete pretty quickly too.


I can't honestly say I don't have any cracked software, but the single one I have was sent to me by the company I originally bought it from (when their agreement with iLock terminated.. and they couldn't get me a response for it when I re-installed Windows)
So I don't feel like I pirated anything; I actually paid for it first!


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I can't honestly say I don't have any cracked software, but the single one I have was sent to me by the company I originally bought it from (when their agreement with iLock terminated.. and they couldn't get me a response for it when I re-installed Windows)
So I don't feel like I pirated anything; I actually paid for it first!




This is sort of what I meant when I mentioned LETTER OF THE LAW vs SPIRIT OF THE LAW

The spirit of most laws is to protect the rights of somebody. For example, a stop sign exists so people won't threaten the safety of somebody by driving through a busy intersection. But the logic gets muddy at 3 am when there's nobody on the road and you pull up to a stop sign on an icy hill. Do you stop because the letter of the law says stop? Or do you honor the spirit of the law, knowing that driving through a deserted intersection at 3 am puts nobody in danger? (I like to think that the anal retentive types will stop anyway, but the rational thinkers will proceed cautiously. But for the record, even at 3 am the police will give you a ticket if you fail to stop. Don't ask how I know this)

Likewise for downloaded music. In the past you bought lots of albums. The copyright law allowed you to make a backup of the music you bought... but there was no convenient media with which to make your backup. So, if you're like most people, you bough the same music multiple times on different media.

If you later downloaded somebody else's MP3 backup of a song you already bought 4 times on vinyl, 8 track , cassette and CD, are you a pirate? By the letter of the law, yes... but by the spirit of the law you are accessing a backup of the song that you already bought, and you are entitled to have a backup by law. The law doesn't say you had to be the person who burned the backup.

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spirit of the law--- continued


This is basically the same discussion as whether it is better to get married or shack up. The answer you get will depend on how the person views the laws, and how they balance the topics of accountability to others vs. personal liberty


There is no law against knowing what you want and buying it up front

But it raises eyebrows if you experiment, then commit to it later (either because you like it or because you feel guilty)

case most likely to make you guilty by law or by public opinion is to use the merchandise indefinitely without paying for it

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EVER SINCE THE REALTRACKS GOT THAT HUGE, PEOPLE CAN´T DOWNLOAD FROM TORRENTS OR FILESHARING SYSTEMS ANYMORE. That`s why they only have real old versions or new versions without Realtracks.




Sorry Rachael, not true or maybe partially true. I went to just one of many BitTorrent sites my assistant showed me and entered "band in a box" and up popped 2010.5 in about 5 seconds, there were a bunch of old versions too and further down the list was a 12G file of Real Drums. 12-15G is the size of one season of a TV series in HD like the Sopranos or Lost. He's told me he can set that up before he goes to bed and it's done in the morning. I didn't see any RT's but I'm pretty sure if I were to really try, maybe get him involved we would find them. One thing occurred to me though. These sites are primarily used by young people. They're not interested in jazz, country, Irish folksongs, classic rock, accordians and the like. If it's not grunge, hip hop and loops they could care less and as soon as they try Biab and realize it's for mostly serious musicians, they probably just blow it off. There's some who really use it but I'll bet it's a small percentage of the kids who download it without knowing what it is.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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How often do you say, 'contact customer support' and then eventually the user gets it sorted out with a little help from an aider or abetter?







John,

Just for the record I am 1,000 percent against stealing anything ... software or otherwise.

And I have paid for every single PGM product I use (many times over).

But I will also add that, in my experience, members of this forum know the BiaB software much, much better than anyone I have ever spoken to at "customer support."

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But I will also add that, in my experience, members of this forum know the BiaB software much, much better than anyone I have ever spoken to at "customer support."





I doubt that the forum folks know more than the support folks... but the forum folks are working in their free time, and therefore we have a much more leisurely opportunity to consider a question, play with it a while to see what's up, try some things, then shoot back an informed response. And we can choose to answer only the questions we already know the answer to, or not reply at all.

Whereas the paid support person is probably dealing with multiple complicated scenarios at the same time... every single day.

Last edited by Pat Marr; 01/08/11 02:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

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Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

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