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Songwriting
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 38
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 38 |
I really don't understand the thought behind the OP's question.
Nobody is going to steal your songs.
Nobody is even going to listen to them.
They will be ignored as will the 3,000,000 other independant albums and EPs works published this year. You can put it on spotify and apple music, and pay someone to do that posting thing for you, and you might get between 100 and 1000 listens, who knows. You could spend some money on trying to get on playlists. You might be able to afford to buy 5000 listens. But your problems do not include any likelihood that Taylor Swift or someone big like her will steal your song and get a grammy with it.
W
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,076
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,076 |
I really don't understand the thought behind the OP's question.
Nobody is going to steal your songs.
Nobody is even going to listen to them.
They will be ignored as will the 3,000,000 other independant albums and EPs works published this year. You can put it on spotify and apple music, and pay someone to do that posting thing for you, and you might get between 100 and 1000 listens, who knows. You could spend some money on trying to get on playlists. You might be able to afford to buy 5000 listens. But your problems do not include any likelihood that Taylor Swift or someone big like her will steal your song and get a grammy with it.
W That is a bleak outlook indeed. We are a couple of retirees who mostly hike/mountain bike and write/produce music strictly for fun. However part of that fun has been getting 25+ songs (with BiaB tracks) licensed via Songtrader -- several by large worldwide companies. Another part of that fun has been being getting on Spotify user playlists and being placed on a SC editorial playlist. Income from it is marginal and inconsequential. For us it simply nice to know that folks other than family and friends enjoy our productions.  No intent here to be braggadocio -- just pointing out that "Nobody is even going to listen to them" might be a bit of an overstatement. FWIW, grains of salt, etc., etc. Cheers J&B
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
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Joined: Apr 2017
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I should be able to get to that later this week. Problem is that very few of us remember anymore and all I found on Justia is single paragraph—and it got the decade wrong.
That a music attorney doesn’t know the difference between PA and SR is troubling, indeed. It’s on the form SR. There is—or used to be—an excellent FAQ in the LOC on this. I’ll see if I can find the right link.
Not today, however. Thanks Mike! I believe the lawyer knew the difference between PA and SR, I should have elaborated more on the question - I was trying to figure out the benefits of registering each song separately, 1 PA registration and 1 SR registration for each song. The reason being better licensing terms and such, in case a song does take off. I'm still trying to understand that part of the music business - whether registering each song twice (once as PA, once as SR) can prevent headache, or provide much benefit, down the line. You can use an SR to register a PA Published for a single song—there's a box to check. The Rights Holder(s) must be the same. It does not work in reverse. If the Rights Holder(s) are different for the song and the sound recording, separate forms must be filed. Unless… There are new rules for albums where the songs are released together that I've linked to already and they include artwork. Multiple Unpublished Works can be registered on the same form. Again, I've covered this already.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Songwriting
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 32
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 32 |
I thought the same thing with creating a new product and patents. And here I am, 4 years in court later and down $150,000! Everyone said "no one will steal your idea, stop being paranoid, and just move forward".
Chances are: you're right. The songs will most likely cause ear pain and irritable bowel syndrome.
But I'm a believer in doing things right the first time. I'll be damned if I get jacked again for my hard work.
I don't care if chances are low. My intentions here are protecting my own work, in case it ever does go anywhere.
We need more artists to come out with their stories on how their songs were stolen. Because it happens a lot more than we hear about, it's just either those artists are silenced, or keep themselves silent out of embarrassment / pain / don't want to step on the wrong shoes and get blacklisted. I've heard a few anecdotes, but I'm confident @Mike Halloran has more stories.
I'm for the little guy protecting himself. Music Industry Corporate types want you to think it's a non-issue. If you're working hard at this, I saw it's worth paying a few bucks to protect yourself.
If doing it for fun... then sure, don't protect it. Depends on if you value your work or not.
At the end of the day it can be argued it's hard to prove infringement in the court of law and all that, but at least you give yourself a fighting chance. And prevent someone from blatantly ripping you off.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 32
Enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2023
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Thanks for your insight Janice and Bud. And congrats on getting licensed and onto Spotify playlists! That is great to hear
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Songwriting
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 32
Enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 32 |
You can use an SR to register a PA Published for a single song—there's a box to check. The Rights Holder(s) must be the same. It does not work in reverse. If the Rights Holder(s) are different for the song and the sound recording, separate forms must be filed. Unless…
There are new rules for albums where the songs are released together that I've linked to already and they include artwork.
Multiple Unpublished Works can be registered on the same form. Again, I've covered this already. Thanks Mike. I think my cost saving strategy will be as follows: - GRUW (Group Registration of Unpublished Works) for 5-7 songs: $85 - Release each song as a single, one a month - After 4 months, release an EP with 5-7 songs - GRAM (Group Registration of an Album of Music) for those 5-7 songs, with album artwork: $65 x 2 (need to register Publishing (PA) and Master (SR) separately) The disadvantage is that 2 or 3 of those songs will be "unprotected" (3 month from publication rule), until the GRAM is registered. Though this is most likely a non-issue.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 60
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 60 |
The way I see it. If i spend several weeks grinding way at a song, even if it’s likely that it will never be an hit, after all that effort, for $45. I can fill out a copyright SR form online and upload the song. The entire process of filling out the form and uploading takes less than 20 minutes. From my perspective, it’s money well spent as long as I can afford it.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 463 |
Always, always, always copyright them. I own copyrights for the added protection. The copyright office has retired lawyers to help you if you are infringed upon. I asked the same question in the forum some time ago, couldn't get straight answers, so I contacted one of the free attorneys and they told me to copyright everything before releasing it.
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 463
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 463 |
One time I met Kenny Loggins at a procedure that my mom was at. He said always hang on to your publishing and never give anybody a controlling share of your publishing because that's where the money's at. He said, that a publisher will work with you on a percentage basis if that's what you want to do. Then, they can have a share of your publishing but never give them the Lion's Share of it because they're the ones that are going to make the money off of it.
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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Always, always, always copyright them. I own copyrights for the added protection. The copyright office has retired lawyers to help you if you are infringed upon. I asked the same question in the forum some time ago, couldn't get straight answers, so I contacted one of the free attorneys and they told me to copyright everything before releasing it. Everything is copyrighted once it is in tangible form. You are talking about registering with the LOC (in the US) and that is not the same thing as has been explained earlier in this thread. Before releasing it, Registering on form PA Published, one song per form, is the only way to protect works that have been released — that's how it works. The OP was asking about unpublished works and that question has been discussed a lot. One time I met Kenny Loggins at a procedure that my mom was at. He said always hang on to your publishing and never give anybody a controlling share of your publishing because that's where the money's at. He said, that a publisher will work with you on a percentage basis if that's what you want to do. Then, they can have a share of your publishing but never give them the Lion's Share of it because they're the ones that are going to make the money off of it. Excellent advice—if one is Kenny Loggins. Neil Diamond kept his publishing, too, and there were many articles over the decades on how much more money he could have made had he given up control and let someone else exploit those works to their fullest potential. My company just signed a new composer. I paid him a modest advance commensurate with the risk I am taking. There's no way we'll see a dime before Summer and, though we might see some money after Christmas. It's quite possible that the advance + the monies I paid when I commissioned the work 3 years ago is all he'll ever see. I am optimistic but it's still more than he will realize on his own. Monetizing his work is not a priority. I signed him to a non-exclusive deal—I publish the pieces I want but he is free to shop anything new. His performing schedule keeps him so busy that self-publishing is a non starter.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,326
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One time I met Kenny Loggins at a procedure that my mom was at. He said always hang on to your publishing and never give anybody a controlling share of your publishing because that's where the money's at. He said, that a publisher will work with you on a percentage basis if that's what you want to do. Then, they can have a share of your publishing but never give them the Lion's Share of it because they're the ones that are going to make the money off of it. Regarding the "hold on to your publishing rights" thing....Theoretically absolutely yes you are leaving a lot of money on the table if you don't keep your publishing or at least a share of them. However, in the real world, only writers who have a string of successes (as in top 10 and number ones) are going to have the clout necessary to demand a share of the publishing. Those that are in this category have set up their own publishing companies which administer all or a portion of the publishing rights. Loggins is undoubtedly in that category. Writers such as myself, with a small amount of commercial material with publishers, are not. Our option is limited to "take the deal and sign it, or leave it".
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Nobody is going to steal your songs.
Nobody is even going to listen to them.
They will be ignored as will the 3,000,000 other independant albums and EPs works published this year. You can put it on spotify and apple music, and pay someone to do that posting thing for you, and you might get between 100 and 1000 listens, who knows. You could spend some money on trying to get on playlists. You might be able to afford to buy 5000 listens. But your problems do not include any likelihood that Taylor Swift or someone big like her will steal your song and get a grammy with it. Exactly right! Unless you are a pro in the music business actively building a career, paying to copyright your songs doesn't make much sense. But if you have the money and feel it is worth it then by all means go for it!
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192 |
Nobody is going to steal your songs.
Nobody is even going to listen to them.
They will be ignored as will the 3,000,000 other independant albums and EPs works published this year. You can put it on spotify and apple music, and pay someone to do that posting thing for you, and you might get between 100 and 1000 listens, who knows. You could spend some money on trying to get on playlists. You might be able to afford to buy 5000 listens. But your problems do not include any likelihood that Taylor Swift or someone big like her will steal your song and get a grammy with it. Exactly right! Unless you are a pro in the music business actively building a career, paying to copyright your songs doesn't make much sense. But if you have the money and feel it is worth it then by all means go for it! Since there are so many ways to make money in the music business without having hits, that nonsense is Exactly wrong! Unfortunately, hits are how you might make the big $$$$$$, Copyright registrations are important in the fights against takedown notices, Brazilian and Russian copyright trolls and their bots, others monetizing your YouTube and other channels, licensing synchronization, dramatic and many other revenue streams. When a work is released, you have no rights to be paid without that Form PA Published. If you file that form after someone has stolen from you or placed an ad on your YouTube channel, they get to keep all monies paid before the registration date on that certificate — SCOTUS ruled on that nearly 5 years ago.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Songwriting
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,563 |
Professional grade sheet music is easily produced with NCH Crescendo. Musical notation, Chord Progressions, and lyrics. Author and Copyright date at the bottom. The tune is easily rendered as WAV and/or Video with a touch of a button. MS Paint is handy for editing the sheet. Once the work has been printed with the C + Date, it is a legal copyright, courtesy of the digital age. Now go ahead and tell me where I am all wet about this. Honor We Thy Kingdom
Last edited by edshaw; 02/02/24 03:55 AM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
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A few excerpts:
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We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
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