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Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Teunis #520655 01/26/19 11:59 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 2,902 South Africa JoanneCooper Veteran
JoanneCooper Veteran Joined: May 2012 Posts: 2,902 South Africa	Originally Posted By: Teunis Joanne, I think if there was only “right” chords there’d be no point to Roman Numeral or Nashville notation, after all why learn the chord pattern anywhere but the right place. It sounds better to use the correct “pattern” in a key that suits your playing and voice. When playing in a band with just guitar, bass and drums I’d often go back to using open chords that allowed me to pick whilst strumming. As I understand it, some folks in fact wrote tunes and then played them in a different key to make things simpler. Tony Absolutely Tony! That is why I used to turn off the recording and just try to play the song according to my voice and my own (rather limited) guitar playing. I am always amused when people say to me "That chord is wrong, is supposed to be a "Bm" not a "D". Usually they are trying to make me look stupid, when in-fact they don't know anything about harmony. I remember being completely astounded when a few years ago a guitar teach told me you can happily play a song that has all major chords using those chord's relative minors. What!!! He then proceeded to play Knocking on heaven's door using only the relative minors... well that opened up a whole new world for me. As mentioned by Mario above you can use the same approach for all sorts of other chords such as 7ths, maj 7ths..etc. The starting point is the I IV and V. LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #521147 01/29/19 06:21 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	Joe, The one that comes immediately to mind is Stormy Monday. I am sick of playing it but it adds minors to the blues progression. If you want to go further without spending a lot of time, try a couple of the following ideas. You might work on one piece of sight singing/ear training. Practice the root to third and root to flat third until you can hear the difference automatically. For example, play C note to E note. Then play C note to Eb note. Doesn't sound like much but you will be surprised at how much it helps you. Learn to play the chords in a major scale. It's not difficult and you can probably find some help on the internet. For example, the G major scale makes the following chords: G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#mb5, G. Don't worry about the F# chord until you really get the rest of it. Then just experiment and play until things start to click. Hope this helps. 2b i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and JoanneCooper #521232 01/29/19 12:41 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 7,301 Akron, Oh eddie1261 Veteran
eddie1261 Veteran Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 7,301 Akron, Oh	Originally Posted By: JoanneCooper Joe, an easy way to start playing by ear is to just start out playing major key songs with the tonic all the way through the song. Then the second time you may want to put in the four or five chords when the tonic does sound great. There are not many major key songs that you cannot just play all the way through with just variations in sequence I, IV and V. Once you have got that down you will start hearing where the minors are used in the song. Then you can worry about the 7ths..etc.. But if the player who knows ZERO about theory reads that, you know what the questions are? Tonic? Like gin and tonic? The four or five chords? What is that? What is that I, IV, V thing? You are talking about people who don't know C from F from L, M, N or P here. They don't know what key they are in to know what the 4 of that scale is. And of they don't know notes of a scale, what does "the 4" mean to them? I don't even really know what he meant by the topic of the post. "with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys". Does he mean 1 or 2 CHORDS in the song? I mean, a song is in "a" key. Not one or 2 keys. So does this means songs that only have 1 or 2 chords? This is the "songs" vs "music" again. I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines. 1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #521418 01/30/19 09:35 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	One reason why EVERY musician and EVERY singer should learn at least basic music theory is so that we can communicate by speaking the same language. Insights and incites by Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522019 02/02/19 09:31 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Exactly. 2b, the only reason you're tired of Stormy Monday is you're probably not doing the double time solo section that the Allman Brothers did. I believe Greg Allman is the one who originated that version of the tune. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqa1s4jhkQ8 Their seminal album Live at Fillmore East, the double time part is about 5:10. I would argue for years with blues players in jams that you guys are leaving out the double time shuffle and they didn't know what I was talking about even though the guitars are playing all these Allman Brothers licks note for note including the intro. Weird. Too jazzy for them I guess and they never really listened to that band. The Allmans got into some pretty jazzy stuff like Elizabeth Reed for example. And btw, this version of Stormy Monday is a great example of Scale Tone 7ths. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Notes Norton #522230 02/03/19 04:26 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,631 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,631 Mi., USA	Originally Posted By: Notes Norton One reason why EVERY musician and EVERY singer should learn at least basic music theory is so that we can communicate by speaking the same language. Insights and incites by Notes Agreed. I know it's a long thread, but I said this a few pages back. "The one extra benefit of having a basic understanding of theory is that you can converse with another musician and understand what they are saying." It helps with creativity and writing as well as learning/hearing, which is what the thread was originally about. You can go to Germany without speaking German but it will have an affect on your experience. Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and jazzmammal #522255 02/03/19 06:16 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	Jazzmammal, Thanks for trying to turn me on to something. I am very familiar with the Allman version of the tune. It came out when I was in college (I'm 65) and I listened to it a lot. I'm sick of it because it is one of a group of songs that I have heard too much. It goes in the bag with Evil Ways, Long Train Runnin, Gimme Some Lovin, I'm a Man, and Rocky Mountain Way. It's also a slow blues. Every time I go to a jam, two or three people whip out a slow blues and proceed to try to channel SRV (usually poorly). I try to find a bathroom or go get a drink. I look around at the audience and everyone has their phone in their hand for the entire song. That ought to tell these guys something but they just wank on. For those of you who love these songs, no offense intended. I'm just tired of them. Thanks again, JM. 2b i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522262 02/03/19 07:25 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Haha, I'm with you on that. Add Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl to that list. Another thing I was thinking about when I posted my comment about Stormy Monday was few play it correctly. There is a lot of subtle things going on in the Allman's recording including some really good dynamics. All that is lost at a jam, everybody is overplaying at the same loud volume, zero dynamics, zero subtlety. When it's done like that I totally agree, it sucks. One of the big problems with doing gigs is so many times there's no rehearsals so pretty much everything turns into a jam. When I listen to the original recordings of even relatively simple classic blues I will hear all kinds of little things that nobody bothered to learn. Somebody calls a tune, a player will say I don't know that how does it go and the guitarist just says it's 3 chords in G. Well, yeah that's "basically" what it is but the record will have cool little licks, a specific bass line on a bridge, punches or stops, a nice one bar drum fill, lots of little things. And of course, dynamics. None of that is played so it turns into another boring jam. Youtube is so great. I will listen to a full live concert by BB King, Albert King, different collaborations by all the greats and it's amazing what those old classic blues tunes really sound like. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522405 02/04/19 04:02 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I prefer the Bobby "Blue" Bland version of "Stormy Monday" but the Allman Bros version is also high on my list. And every guitar slinging blues singer owes a debt to T-Bone Walker for that matter. Now I won't go out of my way to listen to "Mustang Sally", "Brown Eyed Girl" and a lot of other songs that I make my living by playing, but when I'm playing them, I'm into them, enjoying them, and doing the best job I can. It's all about attitude. IMO, Get the negative thoughts out of your head and enjoy yourself. There are songs that simply work with the audience every time. I wish there were more of these types of songs. I take the "let's have fun with my duo partner, Leilani and the audience" and we enjoy. I get an improvised sax solo in Sally, I get to play my guitar in BEG I'm having more fun than any day job I have ever had or can think of --- and they are going to pay me money at the end of the night. Come on! What can be better than that? When you make a living doing what you would do for free, you'll never work a day in your life. I'm making a living doing what I would do for free. I charge people to move the PA set, and play for free. When someone has requested a song more than once, I'll remember that person, their request, and when they come in and get settled down with their drink and/or meal, I'll send that song out to them without their asking for it. It makes them feel special, they in turn smile at me and/or thank me and that makes me feel good. I've brightened somebody's day, and they in turn brightened mine. Music is a dialog between the entertainer and the audience. It's not a lecture or a lesson. It's a game and the audience is playing along. I read an interview with Tony Bennett. He was asked, "Do you ever get tired of singing "San Francisco"? Tony replied (I'll paraphrase), "Never, it's the song that put me on the map, it's a great song, the people want to hear it, and they are the reason I'm here, I'm lucky to be able to sing it to them." I respect that attitude. I like to play old 'war horse' songs and I like to play new songs. I like to play challenging songs, and I like to play simple songs. I like to play to the audience I have in front of me, give them the best experience I possibly can, and they return the love hundreds of times over. To me simple songs are like charcoal or pencil must be to an artist. I have a smaller palette to work with, but that doesn't mean it has to be less artful. The music is in the nuances as much or even more than in the notes. If I'm lucky I'll get to play "Mustang Sally", "Brown Eyed Girl", "Yakety Sax", "Electric Boogie", etc., for thousands more times each. Insights and incites by Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Notes Norton #522444 02/04/19 08:08 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 461 Jonesboro Arkansas B Brian Hughes Journeyman
Brian Hughes Journeyman B Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 461 Jonesboro Arkansas	Nice attitude Notes. Brian BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 6.5 Windows 10

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522446 02/04/19 08:25 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	I agree with that too. Even though I'll put songs on my "list" doesn't mean I won't play them with a smile on my face. The big band will do Sally and BEG because all 40's big band gigs are dead, he changed the name to the Decades Band and might start off with String of Pearls and In The Mood but then goes into the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Ever heard a big band do Call Me by Blondie? It's an experience, I'll tell you. Then I go over to Catalina about 4 times a year for special events and Spencer Davis lives there. When he's healthy he's likely to just show up and sit in and of course we'll do Gimme Some Lovin and I'm a Man. I'm honored to have done those with him on two occasions. Unfortunately his health hasn't been the best, he was in the hospital over New Years and I have no idea how he's doing now. Here's a little tidbit you might find interesting. He got two nice royalty checks out of the blue last year. Why? Ariana Grande covered I'm a Man, it's a hit and he had no idea who she is. Now groups don't have to feel old doing that song, they can say here's the latest Ariana Grande tune. I listened to it, it's a straight cover pretty much like the original. While I have my preferences as to what kind of stuff I like to play I've been an in demand keyboard player my whole life because I'll play whatever a given crowd wants to hear. Those tunes may not be on any one groups regular set list but if someone requests something of course we'll play it. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522512 02/04/19 01:32 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,125 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,125 Winston-Salem, NC USA	Growing up I use to really enjoy watching Liberace and Victor Borge on television. Both were great entertainers as well as master musicians on the piano. Both understood that when it looked like they were having the time of their life that the audience would have the time of their lives. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522544 02/04/19 02:45 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,631 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,631 Mi., USA	I got to meet Borge once in a 2 week music class/camp ... whatever they called it. He was a very awesome person with an attitude much like Norton's in his post above. He had abilities way beyond what he sometimes showed on stage, mainly due to being an entertainer first and musician second. When he put on a clinic it left no doubt. Thanks for reminding me of him. His memory needs to last. I have been blessed in my life (due to my parents) to have met many great people as musicians. Thankful for that. Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Joe V #522565 02/04/19 05:35 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Joe, have you enrolled in a music theory class yet? My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and rharv #522966 02/06/19 01:06 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,096 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	Originally Posted By: rharv I got to meet Borge once in a 2 week music class/camp<...snip...> He had abilities way beyond what he sometimes showed on stage, mainly due to being an entertainer first and musician second. <...> We must never forget that we musicians are entertainers. If we can't entertain the listener, we may as well stay in the practice room. Read the audience, play to (or with) the audience, meet them at their level, play the songs they want to hear, dress the part, act the part, and entertain them. Make them happy and they will make you happy. This is what it is all about. If you can't do this, you need to find a different line of work. Playing Mustang Sally or Yakety Sax for the thousandth time is a little like eating toast with butter for the thousandth time -- nothing new or adventurous, but still good. When I play a blues scale solo in Mustang Sally the audience doesn't know I've played Tchaikovsky and in a jazz band where the likes of Ira Sullivan and Red Rodney came to sit in. And I don't think they need to know. Insights and incites by Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: How many of you can take a song you've heard before - with really simple chords in 1 or 2 keys - and Notes Norton #522984 02/06/19 02:50 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A. 2bSolo Journeyman
2bSolo Journeyman Joined: May 2011 Posts: 464 Florida, U.S.A.	Bob, I agree with you about entertaining. If I go out to play, I do what the the crowd wants and give it my best. If I am sure that an audience would want to hear something, I will put it on the list. But if nobody asks for some of those songs I don't care for, I don't pull them out. All of that said, always good to hear your perspective. 2b i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.

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