Step by step on how to set up my Motif 8 Classic with BIAB

Quote:

I can get sounds but they are all over place, sometimes drums sometimes instruments.

This sounds like you haven't set sounds to the appropriate channels for BIAB to interpret.

The below image (from Opt | Preferences | Channels) shows what MIDI channel (first column) that each of the BIAB tracks are set to by default. To get the appropriate sounds out of the Motif * keyboard, I suspect you need to be able to tell it to play either (a) general midi or (b) specific instruments on specific channels.

Also, if the styles you're using contain Realtracks and Realdrums, these are not midi based and so will not be able to be interpreted by the keyboard.

Some things to note regarding the above point ...

1. Styles that begin with _ or = will have Realtracks and usually Realdrums in them.

2. Styles that being with M contain Midi Supertracks and usually Realtracks and Realdrums.

3. By default, BIAB automatically substitutes Realdrums on Midi style is there is an appropriate choice. This option can be disabled under Opt | Preferences | Realdrums.

Hope this adds to the above to give you a bit more information.

Regards,
Noel

Ah ok

Sorry yes BIAB see's it too. I was using the USB cable for MIDI from the Motif but I read somewhere that it didn't work right so now I'm using an UNO USB MIDI to USB cable but it's the same.

I actually have drum sounds so far. My set up is Motif to PC via UNO USB, also I have the left and right output cables going from my Motif to my VS-2480.

I know it's the Motif or I'm pretty sure and I think it's just that I don't know how to get the different instruments to play in song or pattern mode but....

In pattern mode? I have drums coming through. I'm in pattern mode then mixing and I can see that part 1 actually says dr. The rest of the 16 say ap piano and I do have a piano coming through it just is playing like a drum instead of a piano. I also noticed that if I raise and lower the four sliders next to the window on the left actual physical sliders that the virtual slider in part 1 through 16 move too. And they are linked in pairs but not next to each other.

That's how far I've come and I'm thinking of just doing a high def video on my I Pad of my setting so anyone can view and probably see what it is I'm doing wrong.

I checked the patch maps on PG music, but unfortunately they do not list the patch map for the Motif 8 (classic). I also have a Motif Classic. But here is a you can download download (free) the instrument definition file(.ins file) that Mac mentioned spoke of for the Motif (they also have just about all the other Motif info as well, such as manuals, how-to's, etc.

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/sonar_cakewalk_ins_instrument_definitions

Download the instrument definition for the Motif

Then once you've downloaded the .ins file, do as Mac suggested to create a patch file for BB (page 83 of the BBW 2013 manual). This page and the preceding/succeeding page give pretty much step-by-step instructions on how to create the patch (.pat) file from the instrument definition file (.ins), and how to select and use the patches.

The instrument file is for the standard/factory instrument definitions for the Motif. If you've made customizations to the Motif, then you will need to create account for that. There are free editors (from Yamaha and Motifactor) for all things Motif (Wealth of Motif knowledge, etc.)

You can also visit Yamaha's site for additional drivers, pdf files, etc.

http://download.yamaha.com/search/produc...oduct_id=623455

See if the above gets you started.

Richard

Ok Richard

I'll give that a shot later on, thank you.

Steve

Hi Steve,

If at all possible, can you let us see and image your Audio setup with in BIAB? For example, the image below shows my settings. (They're found under Opt. | Preferences | Midi driver.)

IMAGES IN POSTS
If you have Vista or Windows 7 there's a software tool found under "Start | Accessories" called the 'Snipping Tool'. This can be used to obtain a section an on-screen display and then save it as an image. Using an external internet file storage location, that image can then be included in a post. The link below explains how to include images in post.

... link to how to include images in posts

Regards,
Noel

Hi Noel

I know how to use the snip tool and I'll do that when I get back in the music room but for now I actually remember what they are only because I changed the MIDI cable from the USB MIDI to the UNO MIDI to USB cable. You can probably tell me better though which cable I should use or if it even matters.

The only option I don't have it straight MIDI.

On the MIDI input and output right now it's the UNO
Under the Synthesizer/Sound card I have Motif ES 8
The use Dxi synth is unchecked and General Midi 2 is selected.

Oh man

Well I have the image but you can't just post pictures here. Looks like I need to link them to a URL which I don't do. If you want I'll post it on my FB page and give you the link.

Let's see if this works

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/737167_10200215381090310_155918044_o.jpg

Good tip on the real drums Noel and I'll check that later.

How have you set up your Motif 8 to receive Midi information?

Do you mean like local ctrl off sen channel all the Midi stuff?

Or something else?

I have to run this machine I use for Lyme Disease now called a Rife machine so I won't be able to go the music room PC for a few hours but I'll be back and also reading here from my laptop.

Thanks

Hi Steve,

I don't own a Motif 8 and so I'm not in a position to describe in detail how to go about setting it up.

What caught my eye was your saying that you get sounds but they all over the place. This simply suggested to me that your keyboard does not have the correct sounds assigned to the necessary midi channels for BIAB to play and/or some of the BIAB tracks have Realdrums and Realtracks present.

I've just done a search on the web and it looks like the Motif 8 has a General Midi (GM) bank of 128 sounds. It also has a GM set of drums. Have a look in your instruction manual for the instrument and see if you can find information on how to set the Motif 8 to receive GM data.

Hope this helps,
Noel

There ya go.

Thanks Richard!

--Msc

I'll look at it all again but that is still my biggest problem. I don't understand the manual. So if someone that actually has a Motif 8 and knows how to walk me through the setup without referring me to the manual I would really appreciate it.

That's why I made the post looking for step by step instructions. I could and have read the manual for years and still do not understand it.

I appreciate all the help but telling me to read my manual would be a waste of time for me and you.

Steve,

I just did a search on Youtube and here's a clip that might help. It's a great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_KufYoon8

At around 4:30 onwards, the guy talks about setting sounds on individual channels. Even though he's using Cubase, the principle for BIAB would be the same since it's necessary to assign sounds to midi channels so that BIAB can play them.

Regards,
Noel

Steve,

A word about the image I've posted a few posts up.

This list says ...

1. BIAB's Bass track is assigned to send MIDI information on MIDI channel 2. What this means from your keyboard's perspective is that it needs to have a bass sound set up on MIDI channel 2 if it's to produce a suitable sound.

2. Since BIAB transmits its Piano track data on channel 3, then your keyboard needs to have a suitable sound set on MIDI channel 3 so that the data sent by BIAB can play it and sound good.

3. The same is true for all other BIAB tracks. The channel given in the image indicates what MIDI channel on the Motif 8 needs to be assigned a sound.

It's certainly a very advanced and comprehensive keyboard. Have you been back to your Yamaha dealer and asked them to show how to set it up?

Regards,
Noel

Steve,

The manual (BBW)can be a little daunting can be a little daunting at first because it covers a lot of ground with so many great features in BB. But, so is the Motif Owner's manual, as the MOTIF (even the classic first edition), but it contains both a Quick Start Guide, and all the details many don't want to know (but should know much of it to get the most out of this powerful synth).

I have a MOTIF (Classic, first edition) as well as a MOTIF Rack ES. A bit of background info first (I hope not redundant or patronizing for you). From here on out, when I say MOTIF, I mean your version (the Classic, first edition)

The MOTIF has GM sounds to be sure, but there are tons of sounds you can take advantage of (which is why the SONAR/Cakewalk instrument file, MOTIF.INS) is critical. This file has all the rest of the voices, performances, etc. I don't know if you have both the manuals and supporting info (refer to links in my previous response), but if not, I highly recommend you get them. They are free and in PDF form on both the Yamaha and Motifator sites. The two factory manuals from Yamaha are:

MOTIF User's Manual
Data List (has all the voices, banks, etc. and you need this also)
Yamaha Tools for MOTIF6/MOTIF7/MOTIF8

Additional guides are on both Yamaha and Mofifator sites.

Id you have at least the first two, great.

First, let me recommend that you do not limit yourself to GM sounds (although they are excellent). Second, the reason I'm going to offer this info is help avoid setting issues later on (although I can't possible go into detail features and steps here, because I would only be repeating the manuals).

Secondly, determine what mode(s) you want to use the MOTIF in (Voice, Performance for BBW use). There are others, but Voice vs Performance is significant).

Voice is the simplest (one voice per channel) vs Performance that has 4 parts.

Where I can, I'll refer to the MOTIF OWNER MANUAL (MOM)

So here is a loosely organized step-by-step (top level).

1. Get the instrument file (MOTIF.INS from motifator site)
2. Create the patch file per BBW manual (GM menu button/Convert Patch List form Power Tracks or Cakewalk, pg 554 BBW manual).
3. Determine if your MOTIF matches the patch file (at least for banks, modes, etc. you are interested in)
4. On the MOTIF, enter Utility mode then
4a. set the basic receive and keyboard transmit channels (ref page 258 of MOM). You can leave it at 1/1, or set each to something else (1-16) just make sure that BB is set correlate with the MOTIF.

Before I continue this, I'm going to grab some dinner. I'll come back to this in a while. But recommend you do the above first anyway.

Richard

Thanks Noel

That's some great info and I'll check the video too. All this is helping me piece it together as I find it very complicated.

I bought this at least 8 years ago but never messed with any of the settings. I just would bring up a piano or bass ya know one instrument at a time and played it live and recorded into the 2480.

Now I'm having a harder time playing and the Motif some of the keys are getting sticky, I've already replaced two of them and that was a piece of cake compared to this MIDI stuff! Ha ha! Really!

Rich

Very cool, I did get those files and I actually have the Motif INS already to go on my music PC. I just have to read how to install that PAT and it did not look difficult.

I have the equipment down for the night but please post anything any of you can think of to get me through this. I have attempted to learn MIDI a few times and just got frustrated and quit but this time I will see it through.

I have the Motif manual right in front of me and have been reading it like daily but I say huh? A LOT!

I was typing (i'm very slow) in Word, and trying to find a Motif Manual and confirm settings but Richard seems to have this one

Once you figure out how to set it up in Performance mode (which as he said only has only 4 parts) you can then tackle/set it up in "song" mode and get 16 parts (all 16 midi channels - even though BIAB doesn't use that many). I was typing and trying to find a Motif Manual to confirm info btu Richard seems to have this one

I have a Motif XS7, and had a ES7 - while the GM bank is "ok" I never really use it or those sounds - the Motif sounds are a lot better than the GM set supplied but you have to select those better sounds for each BIAB instrument (preferably from a BIAB .PAT file or manually on Motif itself)

There is no GM "mode" on any Motif (like there is on most Roland, Alesis and other gear or dedicated GM modules like a Sound Canvas or Ketron SD2)
The MOTIF rack is SIMILAR but there is no "multi-mode" you have a song mode so this link is just given to aid you how to think about it

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/musi...for_gm_playback

I can't seem to download any PDF files form the Yamaha Support site (something over there is screwed up) so I can't check the details of the Motif verses the XS (but they are probably the same) but again I think Richard will help here _ I also have to get off and do other work I'll check back later

GOOD LUCK!

Steve, you guys are getting way off track for this point in time. Just set it up for GM/XG like I said earlier. GM works automatically, no need for you to mess with setting up midi channels, figuring out patch maps, ins files or any of that stuff. Simply find out how you put your Motif in GM or XG mode (Yamaha's version of GM) and you're done. Biab sends all midi data in GM mode by default. Once you get that working then we can see about having you access the higher patches. If your Motif has a good sounding GM soundbank you may not care about the rest.

The big advantage of using a GM synth is you don't have to do anything, it's a nobrainer. The big disadvantage is some GM soundbanks sound weak and people start looking for better sounds.

Bob

Ok Bob

I'll try that one first thing tomorrow. I still like all the info though and will take it slow.

Thanks

Larry,

Here's Motifator's link to the MOTIF Manual:

http://motifator.com/index.php/support/motif_manuals/

Motifator has the manual, but does not have the data list manual. Yamaha does still have all the manuals, but now you have to register to download the manuals. It's free, but you need to create an account (Yamaha only).

All the other manuals/apps (voice editor, performance editor, etc. are available easily from motifator.

Also, it's not that the MOTIF has a GM mode (some keyboards do, but higher end ones do it all by bank selection (btw, the GM on the MOTIF is: MSB=0, LSB =0. but I'm talking about patch changes here, and that's all any sequencer (in this case BB) is going to do. You can certainly manually invoke the different banks via buttons,wheel, cursor, etc., on the MOTIF, but they will be overridden by the midi events (if in non-local control mode).

Anyway, I have some other things I have to get done, but will try to resume this thread tomorrow.

One more thing: While the GM voices sound really good on the MOTIF, many of the other voices available (non-GM) will impress many. To avoid these is missing out. One of these days, I'll upload (or provide links to) some excerpts from the MOTIF (e.g, flute, sax, etc.). Mac and Matt, being horn players can be the critics.

Signing off for tonight,

Richard

Plenty to look at and I'll let you all know how I make out.

Looking forward to part 2 Rich. I know I will want better sounds but I also know Bob is right that I should get something anything working first and it sounds pretty easy.

I have the other stuff ready to go on my music PC and if this goes as quickly as I think I'll be able to move on to the better stuff quickly.... I hope.

Steve

My morning update....

I did Bob's suggestion first and.... I have sound! Yeah! I can see where it is and how to change it. I'll be messing with this for a while and then I'll be back.

Good, baby steps. Whenever you're ready you can follow the excellent info in this thread to access all of the other sounds.

Bob

Yep Bob

I agree. There is so much cool info here I'm sure I'll be back quite a few times. I'm also pretty sure I'll have more questions.

Thanks

Steve

I learned something myself about my Motif (and this is my second one ES now XS).

First time I got the ES7, obviously many years ago now, I sent GM from PTPA, or Cakewalk, or BIAB , or… (I must have been in Voice or Performance mode - doesn’t matter really) and since I wasn't in a multitimbaral mode (Pattern, song, …) I wasn't hearing anything so I must have filled it away as not being truly GM and never looked back. I don’t use the XS7, Alesis Fusion, or even XV-5080/Fantom XR in GM modes anyway. If I want a quick GM set I use SC-8850 or QSR/QS8 or Nanosynth when not using the PC VSTI/DXi synths.

In any case, last night put XS in Pattern Mode, called up Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4" .mid file I have, hit GM and play (from BIAB) and DING, DING, DING: Bob you right - MOTIF XS has a GM mode, while interesting, I won't be using it again :-) but I learned something about my own equipment!

Never to ashamed to admit I leaned something
Larry

Hey

Anyone that wants to add to this please do. I can use all the help I can get. Shut down now fr the night but man I am happy.

My advice is to spend at least several days using GM mode and getting to better know and undeerstand that first.

Loading Demo songs from the stylepicker and playing the files is also a good way to see the program in action, see what certain chord entries actually do, etc.

--Mac

Ok Mac

Will do