RE. george bensons version of "on broadway"
ive always loved the above tasty version, and for my own fun ive wanted to do my own version.
"but" had great difficulty finding a suitable biab style to use. (yes ive spent ages going through the stylepicker many times in my ultrapak.).
possibly the problem is its very syncopated..thats why i like it.(or i'm stupid.)
its a v slick beat. straight ahead styles just don t work.
dont have the "feel".
HAVE I MISSED A STYLE ? ANYONE GOT ANY IDEAS ?
maybe the biab style just dont exist.
any help gratefully received.
best
om

Did you enter the song name into the search?

If that didn’t help, I suggest searching on nortonmusic.com

I had tried entering the song name in the Styles Search. It came up with a version by the Drifters.
I didn't think it was close to the Benson version, so I didn't make any recommendations.

I did find _CABNJAM, which was at least close (?)

However, yes, try Norton Music. Perhaps?

Hello justanoldmuso,
I think the George Benson song is characterized by the arrangement. If you set the chords as shots in Band in a Box (with the drums running through) you can get pretty close to the original with different styles.
Just Enter F..d for the first chord and ^Eb/F..d for the second and so on. the added "..d" instruct band in a Box to play shots and let the drum roll on. The preceding "^" pushes the second chord by an eighth. I have implemented this example with the _FAST_EP.STY and it sounds quite suitable. You may find some other even styles more suitable: _SCRAMBLE.STY, _HELLA.STY ...

Brille.

thanks for the graphic. much appreciated. kudos.

ive tried on broadway several times over the years experimenting in biab with various combos of pushes etc etc, and other tricks, and got close but not quite there... but not that one of yours.
i'll give it another go. great !

btw...could you clarify...my version here starts off in A flat. am i missing something ?
so i checked on you tube, mostly A flat, occasionally live bway is pushed up a tone.
the joy of the song is the syncopation of course. very catchy.
i'm looking at doing an acapella voc style with simple backing.
for fun.
best
om

Well done Brille... your example works great for the feel...
I'd leave off the [/] on the 2nd chord and allow the bass to follow the chord down a step...

Also on the 2 key changes, I'd probably just open 3 discrete Biab sessions in the 3 different Keys, and then export eveything into my DAW..
I may try that later...

Brille and bloc head.

THANK YOU BOTH. BRILLIANT !

i now have the feel ive been yearning for, for ages.
stupid me that i didnt see it.

but i dont have styles _FAST or _SCRAMBLE or _HELLA.
i have ultrapak 2020. are these styles on add on packs i dont have ?

you have no idea how helpful you both have been...kudos to you....and bestest of wishes.
om
ps blochead , yes for different keys i do the same trick often.
but so far i can do it in one bb display....
copying and transposing the parts.
also leaving out the slash works.

Thanks OM,
Also on the last chord after the walk up to the [V], before starting over, make that a hold (except for the drums) [^V...d] To me, it sounds better as a hold (instead of a shot) on the last (5) chord.
I hope that makes sense...

_Hella is from RealTracks Set 367, released with 2021

The others are available in the Xtra Styles PAKs https://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win
(6 & 8 respectively, I believe).

justanoldmuso,
You may try my version "Auf dem Kudamm", I just created (you have to rename file type .txt to .SGU). You could do without the slash notes (/F). You can also change (all or some) last shots in any bar to "holds" – it's all a matter of taste. The song uses realstyle _M16SPNO.STY which was contained in BiaB 2020 Ultrapak, as far as I know, but you may try other ones like the nice _HELLA.STY contained in BiaB 2021 Ultrapak (its always a good idea to upgrade ;-)

Callie, is PG Music considering developing a more native style that might sit the O/P's request?

here's my take on the song.
a different style might work better...

Brille...
your a peach for that file,....
actually i had already done an arrange, but now looking
at your file, its helped to amend my own.
great stuff/kudos brille.
every happiness to you.

what i do now is take the arrange and go thru every single style to see what golden nuggets of sound i can extract and futz with/editing/realigning in reaps.
i'm al;ways looking for sound picture nuggets.

Blochead.
yep i was also doing tests useing holds in various places. i'm always experimenting.

once again thanks for both your help
om

Actually, not bad at all

I changed the file extension to .mgu and un-muted everything and removed the solo on the Strings track and frankly, it's really good. Great effort.

oops just noticed bloc heads file.
will download ...and try it.
cheers
om

Thanks VT... That's the 1st time I've attached a song file to a post on this forum, by renameing the filetype to .txt
Is there a better way to do this, so that the person downloading the file can read the song name after it's downloaded?

bloc-head.
i got your file.
well done.

frankly i think this song illustrates why flexible slides
per my wish in biab's wish list (see pipelines beauty graphic bars view -@old musos bars view) would be more flexible than fixed push amounts. its this type of syncopation where slideing chords by a certain amount plus or minus to create feel would work nicely.
like i used to employ slides in powertraks years ago.

bh. once again thanks to both you and brille.
what i do ios in reaps, slide the sound nugget clips derived from biab around cos sometimes the pushes are too fixed.

best
old sliding downhill skier muso...lol.

"flexible slides" sounds like a great idea to me, especially if you could employ them on individual drum hits for that "in-the-pocket" feel

I will probably record my own guitar solo on this song, but if I wanted to add a "real track" solo, would I have to remove all of the {pushes, shots & holds} in that section of the arrangement?

The way you attached was fine.
You could also name the file 18328.mgu.txt and then people would just know the remove the '.txt' characters after downloading.

Bloc-head.
if you research back thru the biab and rb wishlists you will find pipelines lovely bars view graphic he
did for me. it basically is a modification of the piano roll view.
(i'm useless at graphics. pipe is wonderfull.)
if you peruse the bars view graphic (which looks a bit like the powertraks bars view graphic but updated) you will see that the settings/properties of each instrument at the different time points dont affect the other instruments that might have different settings at different time points.

its just like a daw. for example just cos i slide an audio clip on a particular trak in a daw or set a effect , it doesnt affect the other traks.
basically bars view i suggested is just a bunch of boxes laid out that the user can right clik over and change various settings.

so the answer is, if you didnt want the solo to follow a slide(push/lag) that another trak had, it wouldnt unless you set it as such. just like in a regular daw.
if you peruse the wishes i proposed youll also see in bars view vertical markers just like in a regular daw,
thus makeing easy peasy line up of biab traks with daw traks.

best bet bh is to read my wishes in the wishlists for all the gory details over past year or so ...lol.
hth/best
om
ps perhaps if pipe sees this thread he can repost the bars view graphic. basically the idea was a totally flexible settings environment.

Thanks again VT, great suggestion.

Brille and Blochead.
a follow up. i'm haveing an interesting fun time going thru all the oodles of biab styles for on bway chord layout/changes.

found already several "nuggets" of sound for guide bed traks without buying xtra styles.
(what i do is edit/align in reaps)

one i kinda like (with a bit of editing) for guide beds is _AVIATE
also many others.

its gonna take me a time to test out all the styles of course cos so many.
once again thanks for all your help.
VERY APPRECIATED AND HAS GOT ME STARTED ON MY WAY.
best
om

Thanks again OM... as fate would have it, I too an working on an arrangement... she's a complex melody... not easy to sing...

Blochead.
i'm applying the chord structure to thousands of styles
and rt's..

takes a long time, but thats only way i can find the special nuggets of sound pictures.
as i find usefull styles...i'll post them for you to try/test.
best
om

Here ya go...
~On Broadway~ a rough mix...
https://soundcloud.com/user-459911512-233959630/on-broadway

Bloc Head.
re soundcloud. CRIKEY ! WELL DONE ! for a rough.
what FUN ! nice high "doo doos".
but please be carefull. i dont post anything on the net that isnt my own original song as i just dont know the legal
implications of posting songs that are not ones own.
my own version will stay in house for my own fun.

couple of things.
1. love that clicky wah wah gtr.
2. would like to hear more voc scatting like those doo doos.
3. try doubling the vocs in places.
4. what biab tempo did you use ? i'm kinda likeing 120.

yep its not an easy voc is it ?
but you did really well !! WELL DONE !
great vocs when you reach the notes "i can play this here gtr".

best
om

Thanks OM... yes, 120bpm. I should have started this off in the key of F, instead of G. some of those notes are hard to hit... it was a fun project, thanks for puttin' that bug in my ear... maybe one day soon I'll record some guitar licks that I can scat along with, but right now I really should go mow the lawn...

Turned out quite nice.

Thanks etcjoe...

BlocHead.

i cant get this hooky riff idea out of my brain for your nice version of bway.
lol..even dreamt it last night..
for a vocal scat. an idea....

eg after first verse where you go aflat to f sharp...let it breath with 2 bars of backing first then voc scat spread over 2 bars.

Eb>F>F#>F>Eb>C#>Eb>C>Ab
(try it on gtr too mimicking voc scat. ie doubling it)

you sorta allude to it at one point in the song. give it a bash //test will you ? cos here it sounds tres groovy
when i play it with your version.

i cant get it outta my head...lol
the same motif lick (adjusting the key of course could be used in other time slots of the song/spaces too..)

btw what biab style did you end up useing ?

bestest regards
om

I started with -SCRAMBL style, but substituted all the tracks with different RTs, and exported everything into Cakewalk. It's a fun little groove...
Then I generated several RT with a duplicate chord arrangement, but with the shots & pushes removed, and exported those renderings into my DAW.

blochead...
i found another funky style as i'm gradually testing out oodles of styles..for bway
_BISECT style
its kinda winky ,lol... but in a neat way for rough guide
bed traks
best
om

I tried this using SCRAMBL. Forgive the key - D - I'm a guitarist. lol. My version is D - Eb - E in semitone steps.
Lots of fun and the style is quite close. If anyone knows a way of getting that double shot tighter I'd welcome it.
Here is the first bit of the BT. Its very much a work in progress.
No Intro - straight in to the tune.
Any comments appreciated.
Bests
ian
https://app.box.com/s/2sl5npnu2lurtzdlir9agnyz8tkrx39a

Hi Ian,

Rhythmically, it works really well.
The guitar sits nicely and delivers to overall feel.
I think this is a good choice of style.
A driving bass sitting behind the mix could bring it all together nicely.

Trev

Darn it Trev, you caught me trying Jazz!!
Ive auditioned lots of the Funk basses. The issue here is that the continuous shots and holds (and multiples thereof) keeps the Bass from generating anything like its full, recorded potential.
Still workin' on it though.
Bests
ian

Ian.
try this.
1. mixdown to stereo wav sans bass.
2. import wav to new modded chord sheet sans shots/holds or whatever you want...gen bass rt.
3. import individual traks into rb or reaper or whatever daw ... add vocs and anything else etc and do final stereo mix.

frankly if people would support my darn new bars view for biab with easy peasy settings override (see pipelindes groovy graphic in bb wishlist) this would be a doddle.

best/happyness
om

Yes, great idea.
Whats the link to Pipelines thread. Id support that.
Tonight I'm going to try unleashing the Bass by making it (eg) D..db and so on.
But I'll also make a 2.0 SGU removing all the shots and holds and see how various Basses come out. Laborious though. I dont think i can globally remove the shots and holds on an SGU. It has to be bar by bar.
Bests
Ian

Ian.
see oldmusos bars view ...
read everything tho to get all the gory details/background. with any luck i'll see it when i'm in the old folks home lmao.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=648897#Post648897

the idea is in any cel any bar at any time settings can be made/undone/overriden etc etc...or group of bars.
ie a completely flexible settings environment.

for example re your current need you would look down left hand side of bars view for THE BASS. right clik for global override OR for just one bar right clik over time cel...or group of bars hilite right clik et voila override for that selection. TOTAL FLEXIBILITY. would apply to rb also.

best
om

Well done Ian...
You're right it is laborious... maybe OM & PL are on to someting.

You bet they are. A Winner!
Here is the SGU for the BT I made for ON BROADWAY-BENSON STYLE.
It suits me because I don't play Jazz ( I haven't the ability) and it works OK as a short 3 key, 3 minute Fun session.
A lot more work can be put in, better Bass etc but you only live so long.
Feel free to use if it suits - and feel free to add your own embellishments, changes etc etc to it - and post them here, maybe??!!
8 bar Intro
2 runs in D
1 run in Eb
2 runs in E then running out to long fade etc as you fancy.
https://app.box.com/s/v84gzzp580bvzr9t48rghieql5umltwy
Bests
Ian

Ian.
re bars view.
in the realband forum i also explain benefits of an enhanced bars view.

(eg tuning vocs. etc) heres the link "please sir can i have more bars view".

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=663620#Post663620

i dont want to push this on you, but as you are from the uk like myself...
(moi a cockney lad born in uk/went to posh uni...then worked all over world.)

sometime give a listen to two of my songs in the pg user showcase called "Punkcity" and "My Grandad". both about a slice of english life.
also a third song in the showcase is bout how i would like an english caterham sports car. tres yummy cars.
called "Coastal Highway".
(use good earbuds mate.)
best/happiness
om

All
ok i'm getting lots of styles i can use for bway guide traks from my 2020 ultrapak,
heres 2 more pretty tight ones for rough bed guide for laying down vocs.
_DAWNING
_DENVER

i'm gradually going thru every single style.
you night think i'm crazy doing that BUT that way i dont
miss any neat nuggets of sound.
for example today i found some subtle biab synth sounds that might be usefull.
i'll post more styles as i come across usefull ones.

om

from now on i'll use just this one post to add all the
styles i discover for on bway. its a very lengthy process..and can take a loooong time...
but highly worth it so i dont miss out on important nuggets of sound.
so heres some more styles i like
which i'll be adding to in the next weeks as i explore all the styles.

_ELCB120
_ELFLUTE <<very interesting sound
_GIMLET,_GRASPOP,_HDBEV85,_JAZFNPK <nice funky pops
_JBREEZE,_JBRZEPS,_JMOVNF,_JZFNKHS
(lots of the jazz funk movin/groovin styles are nice)

ok..the schlager styles ..to quote monty python are different, but certain RTs/parts might impart a modern
aspect to bway.
eg synth 2406 in _SCHLGR3 ie...back in a mix.
seems to syncopate with the chord sheet nicely.
after the RT styles i'll work my way thru all the midi styles.
yes i knowc lots of songwriters will question why i laboriously audition every single bb style with the
bb chord arrangement....but my way i miss nothing.

btw looks like key of D will be my chosen key to do bway.
after various voc tests.
cos i can do various neat voc harmonies/scats with the key.
hopefully this thread will help people new to bb ,
showing my alt way/method of doing a song in bb.
om