I make my living from music, and have for 50+ years.

speed and accuracy are paramount.

BB slows my workflow down to a crawl.

too many dialog boxes and options. too many non musical decisions.

what I, and probably a lot of other pros want as well, is a simplification.

I mainly just use BB to make mock-ups BGs quickly and non critically.

in the end, i'd like to see a stripped down edition with no bells and whistles....

mac friendly.no dialog boxes like there are now.

just "input the data" and port to the DAW.

the musicianship is wonderful, but the interface is 20 years old.

please, a stripped back PRO version.

thanks and regards,
robbo.

Robbo, reasonable points.

What version of BiaB are you running?

robbo:

I use the Windows version so I'm not sure my comments will apply.
If you use "Ctrl+T" it hides many of the toolbars, if that's helpful.
Plus, there's even a way to customize what's left, to show only the icons you need.

Otherwise, I don't see how you could simplify it much more.
No matter how you use the program, you're going to have to:
- pick a style
- pick a key
- pick a tempo
- set the song length
- type in the chords

I only use BIAB on occasion, so I don't consider myself a "pro" at it.
But once you learn where the buttons are for those functions, it's
certainly not hard to type in the chords of a song.
I'm guessing there are plenty of users here that, even though they're fairly new,
could easily enter a song in under 30 minutes, and some in under 10.

What part of your process in BIAB is slowing you down?
Finding the right style?
Getting the right chords into the right "boxes"?
Let us know, and there's likely people here who can speed up your "process".

LLOYD S

If you are just simply generating tracks, there is the DAW plugin version of Band-in-a-Box. It has fewer features than the main program because it is assumed that you would also be using the editing features of your DAW program. So it is similar to a "lite" version.

Yes, Chantelle is correct. The Plugin was designed for exactly the case you cite: input the data and port it to the DAW.

Maybe if you want it to be simple then don't use all the dialog boxes and options, for goodness sake.

All you need to do is enter chords, and choose a style from the Style Picker if you want to have a song generated for you. How much simpler and easy could it be? There is no need to go any deeper unless you want to fine-tune things, which is what all those dialog boxes and options are for.

Export the tracks and you're done.

I agree with simplification suggestion.

I am a new user . I found it very difficult to understand all the functions. Now I understand I use only the basics. This was a painful process !

While the videos are helpful they are not logically presented ( which one to watch first ?) . Many of videos are created using old version, this it makes it hard to relate to current version 2022.

It’s simple to say just don’t use them but when you are new you don’t know what’s important. I have been around computer programs like this for many years. This one is a challenge . I am still finding function that are new to me .


My Korg PA keyboard had a simple function that hid all menus and option other than the basics . This was very helpful for a new user. If you are just starting you don’t need many function like harmonists, Melodist etc.

I think this a wonderful program but it really needs a redesign . I tried to find a flow chart on line on how all the function fit to gather with out luck. It tried draw on my self as I was learning but could not come with anything that helped me lay it out logically.

I would like to know more about this daw plug in version mentioned by Chantelle

The plugin is a free standalone application included with all Band-in-a-Box packages. The plugin MUST be installed on the same computer as the main Band-in-a-Box program or it will not work. Version 4 is available for both 2022 Windows and Macintosh platforms. The plugin is available in both 32 and 64 bit formats and follows all plugin standards including VST, VST3, AU and AAX.

+++ HERE +++ is a link to the plugin support page. The plugin page link is also available at the top of each forum page as shown in the screen shot below.

"This one is a challenge . I am still finding function that are new to me ."
LOL! After few years, I am too PGmusic packed some pretty cool / inventive stuff that you will discover if you are willing to invest some time into it.

I agree that some dialog menus can be consolidated, simplified and even made non-modal + overall workflow improved. 100%.


If you have not already, I would start, as was suggested with minimalistic view (Ctrl+T). Makes things much cleaner. Also "Mixer tab" on the upper right corner acts as a button and "hides" and "reveals" mixer.

Video - Agreed. There are too many old/new videos intermixed. I think we need a single beginner video covering making basic song from start to export. (perhaps intermediate and advanced later)

PG forum is a great place to get help with BIAB related issues. Usually folks who know software reply within hours if not sooner.

I'm very much inclined to agree with the stated header, +1 on that. Case in point: I gave my dad, a musician of over 60 years himself, a copy of BBox 2020 - He's never even used it once, citing "too complicated" as reason.

I for one would've loved to see the creation of something like "BBox Lite" that would be a highly reduced price, barebone midi only and/or even a trialware (another thing in on itself that is sorely missing!) ... but I'm certainly no longer holding my breath for any such thing or it would've happened decades ago I'm sure

"..speed and accuracy are paramount..
BB slows my workflow down to a crawl...
what I, and probably a lot of other pros want as well, is a simplification...
the musicianship is wonderful, but the interface is 20 years old..
please, a stripped back PRO version..."

That is NOT me posting, I swear. Though I have spent the last 13 years here trying to get BB there

It's long been a puzzle to me why the standalone is tucked away in an almost secret place

bb/BBPlugin/Files/32-bit/Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin Standalone32.exe
bb/BBPlugin/Files/Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin Standalone.exe

Yes, I think they should put a copy in the C:\bb root with the bbw64.exe and have a different icon for it.
They should do that now before the "new" release.

If you want the program to be simpler, just use it simply and don't take advantage of all the useful extra features.

And if you REALLY want to be a "pro", learn how to use all those useful extra features.

I've worked as a software designer and remember one of it's inspirational quotes: "A design is not finished when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing more you can take away." I've been using BB for about 3 years now and it's incredible in what it does but also has suffered a bit too much from adding, if not squeezing, new features into an interface originally conceived decades ago. I can build and export backing tracks rather quickly now and then move over to Ableton Live, but there are numerous times where I can't remember where a certain setting or feature lives and have to click through ten or more popups before I find it or give up.

We may forgive BB because at the end of the day, the output (music) is all that really matters, but first impressions and feedback from new users is something important not to be dismissed. Then again, if I see BB as a best-kept secret then maybe I don't want too many new people discovering it. =)

Nice philosophy.

AFAICS BIAB has had many things added over the years and they're usually "tacked on" to something that already exists in what is reasonably logical way and place at the time, but if often feels like nobody stands back from it all and looks how to rationalise things. The longer that continues, the harder it becomes to do any rationalisation. It all becomes "too difficult", so one lives with the status quo.

robbo, FWIW I've been using BiaB for about 2 years and when I first started I was overwhelmed with the dialog boxes and menu choices too, so I can relate. And I still consider myself a newbie.

What I have learned with this and other software is to make your progress incrementally. Start simple and ignore all the bells and whistles. Establish a comfort level with the 3 or 4 basic tasks that you need in your workflow. Then ask yourself "I wonder if it can do such and such?" Spend a little time searching for the such-and-such in the program and in the videos. If you come up dry simply ask the question at this forum. There are many friendly experts here that can answer most any question you have. I think you will find that it is a very capable program.

Could the program be simplified? Absolutely, but the key is when you are trying to get something done, stay focussed on that task and don't get distracted by the many "shiny objects" in the dialog boxes. You may also want to type up a series of "How To" sheets so that when you forget something you once knew you just look at your sheet. For me, re-learning something that I once knew how to do is more frustrating than trying to learn it the first time, hence, How To sheets make sense for me until it becomes second nature.

How many use the Modern GUI? Ctrl+T or CMD+T for Mac, toggles between the Classic GUI and the Modern GUI.

The tabs at the top of the mixer makes it easy to move between the various toolbars. The custom tab allows you to have just the icons you use in view.

Pressing the mixer tab will cause the mixer to disappear and reappear giving the chord sheet more viewing real estate when you need it.

Once I got use to using Ctrl+T I found the command as easy to remember and use as F5 for bar settings.

Or, is more simplification needed than just the GUI?

Once I learned to populate a custom toolbar, I switched the second day to the newer GUI and haven't look back. That's five years now.

Same here. I can't remember the last time I used the old GUI.

I do, partly because the PC that I used originally (2013?) and still use for practice, is a small notepad PC. The old GUI just took up too much space on the screen (IIRC it's a 10" diagonal wide-screen).

Back then I gave up on BIAB as unusable for me. I tried customising the toolbars, but when new to BIAB and not knowing what one is doing, it can become very confusing.

The toolbars and so on on the new GUI are more compact and I can see enough bars to make BIAB usable on that PC. The newer GUI encouraged me to try again. It's still pretty clunky under the surface, but the main areas are OK.

Get visual simulation overload with old view.
A/VTrack gave a lot of ideas for the new view with his Concept video



And the Plugin/Standalone has a similar GUI with hide/show panels (sorry no background music ) :

I wouldn't dare use the old GUI, for fear of an uprising

I use the old GUI and wouldn't want to switch. It is much easier to access all the things I want to access without having to hunt for them, including the easy drag and drop of tracks to export.

PLUS, now that we need to see more mixer tracks, I run the mixer as a floating mixer alongside the old GUI interface, and I get a mixer window that runs from the top of the screen to the bottom (similar to the new GUI) without having to sacrifice any interface tools, and it actually looks better since the chord sheet is now smaller in width.

BIAB remembers the position of the mixer window when relaunching BIAB, so I have all of the old GUI showing and a full mixer on the side. It's like a new and improved version of the old GUI. It works really well and I hope it stays pretty much the same going forward.

My only beef is that Audio Chord Wizard keeps switching me to the new GUI and I have switch it back manually a couple times to complete the process.

A wishlist request that will cure the beef is +++ HERE +++

"Floating mixer"
I showed that back in 2011 then it was implemented in 2017 !
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=122728&page=1

It was shown to give solo buttons in RB as RB did not even have solo buttons then.
It's been a long haul trying to get Biab RB into the modern age but as I have been saying the Biab Plugin/Standalone will take PG into the future when these are implemented: instant direct play/gen (faster than Biab), real time signatures, real tempo maps, 48khz 24bit audio, Win/Mac release at the same time and more.. hopefully in the current 2023 beta (please God) !!!!

Those that like nostalgia will still have the old Delphi Biab with the 6 months wait between Win/Mac releases.
It used to be biannual release of BB RB 2011 and 2011.5

Also you will be able to instantly send a current Biab session project to the Biab Plugin/Standalone, having all the same track sections, style, chords with just one click.