I am trying to find a source for quality midi sounds. I have the forte application in real band. Those are pretty good but not totally convincing.

All I’m doing is using BIAB to create the background. I’m playing some instruments livr. The melody or a solo is often supplied by a midi Source.

It is that Source that I’m trying to develop into a more quality sound.

I see all kinds of packages online but I don’t know which one to select nor do I know how much horsepower they demand from a processor.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Michael

Try this recent thread.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=588250#Post588250

I downloaded Kontact Player and some free library How do you use in Real Band?

The same as any other DAW, you assign the Kontakt VSTi to each MIDI track you want to use the Kontakt player on.

Sounds (no pun) like you are new to MIDI, DAW's and VSTi's?

Try watching this youtube all the way and don’t get flustered other him using Abelton and not Realband - a MIDI track is still a MIDI track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zFecOaD4CU


Larry

Well I tried that as you said. I picked Kontact.

It shows in the midi track.

I selected an instrument that is in the library package which was a muted trumpet.

When I try to play the track the view meter for the midi shows that there’s signal but I can’t hear anything. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Michael

Are we talking RealBand or BIAB? I'll assume RealBand. I'll also assume you have your AUDIO set up properly so when RealBand actually has audio it can be heard (when there is audio)

When you are playing a song in RB and you see the VU meters for that MIDI track moving do you ALSO see the VU meters in the Kontakt Player moving for that instrument? If not then the MIDI data is not being HEARD by Kontakt. RB and Kontakt are not on same channel, or same port, or both. Try setting Kontakt channel to OMNI to see if its getting ANY MIDI data in at all

If not try this maybe you haven't told RB which DEVICE to send MIDI data to. A couple ways to get to same effective place depending on HOW you set Kontakt to the track:

1) In RB Preferences, MIDI Devices have you checked the box next to:

"Re-Route MIDI playback to default DXi/VSTi synth"

and then below that selected Kontakt as your default DXi/VSTi? If not you may have to reload the SONG (then it should all work)

or

2) more simply right click on track in RB, then specify which VSTi by selecting: "Specific VSTi/DXi synth for MIDI track"

then scroll down to Kontakt VSTi

Now open the Kontakt Player GUI by again right clicking on track and coming down to (again verify RB sending and Kontakt receiving channels): "Open VSTi/DXisynth panel configuration"


Larry

Is what you say required to use MMA, or can you use ASIO?

For some reason mine seems to work better in ASIO or at least better than MME. Actually either doesn’t work well at all but that’s another story.

So anyway, Which should I use for your fix?

Thanks.

Michael

There was no "fix" I was just explaining a few ways to make sound with MIDI using RB and Kontakt. ASIO or MMA are immaterial to your current MIDI problem.

ASIO, MMA, WDM are just different AUDIO drivers (they have nothing to do with MIDI) those drivers are what the PC uses to allow you to HEAR the audio (more complex than that - but for now lets stick to one "problem" area at a time. Although if you you really want more info on AUDIO MMA, WDM, ASIO differences:


https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/roland-difference-between-asio-wdm-mme-drivers/


Your current "problem" is, with very high probability, a lack of proper MIDI routing and MIDI configuration from RB into Kontakt to allow it to trigger ANY AUDIO driver, irrespective of whether it is MMA, WDM or ASIO.

Lets go back to basics and verify pure AUDIO first - without confusing it with MIDI troubleshooting. Find a BIAB or RB song and make sure it has at least one AUDIO track, don't worry about any MIDI tracks it might or might not have, then make sure you can play the song from within RB and hear audio with at least one of your AUDIO drivers, then leave the audio settings alone for now until you get your MIDI configured properly.

BTW did you watch that video I linked to previously?? if not watch it end-to-end a few times until you UNDERSTAND what's being explained with respect to MIDI, MIDI data, MIDI channels, MIDI routing, etc.

Larry

HI
If you are going to have ago at Kontakt in realband.
You may find my post below useful
Some of it may seem a bit heavy at the moment. But it should help with assigning kontakt , to multiple tracks in realband.
Don worry to much a about multi voiced instanes of kontakt (Multi) these are a bit more tricky.

Fine tuning the Realband’s handling of Midi and Vst plug ins in tracks.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=63093&Number=421946#Post421946

Have fun
Mike

Thanks for the reply.

I understand that some things are on the midi side and some things on the output side. However to a new user not everything in that vein is apparent.

For example in Kontact you have a bunch of drop-down menus that ask for specific parameters. Are those on the input side? Are they on the output side? None of that’s obvious just by looking at.

As far as pure audio is concerned, RB is recording and playing back fine. So I don’t think that would be the issue.

I did watch the introductory video about Midi and yes it was very informative. A lot of the commentary, necessarily had to do with the specific devices and applications the presenter was using. So while the education was informative, it is hard to transfer the information to completely different applications and devices.

I think a lot of the problem stems from the fact that there are duplicative items across the applications which makes it confusing. For example say you have a midi track that is labeled piano. If you open the parameters for that track you’ll see that the piano patch is selected. You will see that it is assigned to particular channel. Then if you look in Kontact you see that there are channel references there also. Obviously too there are patches listed there. So which parameters control by? The ones in real band ? The one in Kontact? Do you select a patch in real band? Do you select a patch in contact? Do you select the patches in both? Do the channels have to be designated in both applications?

Concluding, things may be very obvious when you are just using real band. But when you are using a program within a program it’s difficult to figure out whether one is controlling or whether both are controlling, whether both have to match etc.

Many plugins have many settings. In the case of Kontakt various libraries have different knobs and choices. A lot of VSTs have heaps of settings, there is not one size to any of them.

Unfortunately one really cannot learn this stuff overnight nor can one learn it from the top down. It is important to go through the basics to get the best out of the tools available. There is no one answer to all of this.

Having said that there are many good resources out there. In my opinion one of the best places to go is Groove3.com. At US$15 a month which is cheap and some of the best money you’ll spend. There is enough training to keep you occupied for years. Groove3 covers every aspect of music production from setting up your PC, to DAWs, plugins. production, how to record, mix and master. Even music theory and books on songs. Most manufactures and many, many tools are covered.

My suggestion to you is to got to Groove3.com sign up for a month and see how you like it. Nearly all your questions will be answered in one place.

My thoughts

Tony

Keep safe all

Probably a good idea because there’s no introductory way to get into all the stuff. It’s not like there’s a learning mode for everything or something like that.

There is a lot of free information on the Internet. Google/Bing one or more of the following:

Intro to MIDI

MIDI basic

Using MIDI

After many years with BIAB and MIDI I finally realized that the only to way to get good midi quality and solve other problems like latency etc was to get a hardware synth (I use a Roland SD-50) Software synths just weren't worth the frustration. I also think the same about RT's - get a sound module (I use Focustrite), but that's another story.

Tony

So do you think that instead of building a new computer a person should get a hardware syn?

I think that you might find that a hardware synth is like many of the software based VSTI's mentioned above....the prices and quality vary greatly....from hundreds to thousands.

You can see from my "sig" below, I have a fairly robust computer that can handle multiple VSTis at once with little to no latency issues. But I have to be honest, 90% of the time I use my hardware based sounds from the Yamaha Motif and the Roland Fantom rack mount modules.

Both of these are "romplers" that is they have fixed sounds with little to no tweaking capabilties...the way they sound is the way they sound. And the sounds are fixed...that is you get what sounds they have, you can't add any more or new sounds. Still each has over 1000 sounds...plenty enough for me. And you never have to worry about computer resources, latency or any other computer issues as these are independent of the computer.

Overall, hardware based modules, compared to true synth keyboard synthesizers, seem to be a thing of the past. Very few new ones have been released in the last 10 years or so. My Motif XS rack was released some 10 years ago! But you can use a hardware based synth module with any kind of computer system...any version of Windoes, Mac, PC...doesn't matter...they never become obsolete. Heck the core of my system is based on a 35 year old DX7II keyboard I use as a mother board!

So to make a long story short, you can go the software based route from soundfonts to high end VSTi's or synth keyboards to modules. The choice and the cost is yours. I think in the end, as you continue your journey in this "hobby" you may find yourself like many of us...you'll end up with a combination of applications, hardware and software.

In looking back, some were good purchases and some...well not so much....but my hardware based modules have always stood the test of time and keep on giving.


Jeff

That is so interesting. On this end, I just bought all the parts for a new AMD 3900 computer. My existing computer was getting towards the end of it’s life anyway. I think I built about 15 years ago. So it doesn’t owe me anything.

Ultimately I think I’ll still use VST‘s for the moment. However I’m really curious about the hardware items. And being something of a hoarder, I expect I’ll have all of the above at some point!

Thanks for the insight. I’m learning something every day. The problem with all of this is that there’s no entry-level way to get into it. You’re in the deep end of the pool the minute you hit the water.

I enjoyed your observation.
The better you want your end result to be, the deeper you dive.
We use hardware synths a lot here, FWIW
Softsynth or Hardware; they are all tools in your tool belt.
Both have trade offs, but we wouldn't be able to do what we do here without the hardware synths.

Rharv is right. The more you want a better MIDI sound the more you have to dig into MIDI controls. With a working knowledge of MIDI controls a fair sounding synth can be made into an good sounding synth. On he other hand a very expensive synth playing BiaB MIDI tracks as is may sound bland.

Different strokes for different folks; I have a few hardware synths but I use virtually all soft synths.

My advice is don't go out and purchase a lot of soft synths or hardware synths. Take the SFZ program, or any soft synth that you have, and learn some MIDI controls. Once you have a handle on that then consider purchasing something more expensive. YMMV

Thanks all!

If you want to learn about synthesisers I recommend a series of books by Simon Cann “How to Make a Noise”. These talk about the different types of synths Analogue, Sample Based and FM. They are available in Kindle format from Amazon at about US$2.99 each. (Kindle software for a PCs or iPad are free if you don’t have an Kindle device). The books are simple and show how sounds are created. They are not limited to either software or hardware synths. They will give you a good grounding in the subject.

Note: these books are about synths not MIDI per se.

Keep safe

Tony

I will do that. Sounds like a good place to get started.

If you're interested in expanding your hardware collection don't overlook purchasing an electric keyboard, either new or used.

If you find one that's interesting to you, look it up at the manufacturer's website before you buy. Is it midi compatible, does the website include drivers and does the keyboard have the general midi (GM) emblem somewhere on the keyboard body or literature.

The major keyboard manufacturers, especially Yamaha, Roland, Casio, are so competitive you can find a new consumer grade keyboard that sounds very good and has midi capability starting at around $200 US. Go up in price just a little and the sounds and feature list jump dramatically.

Used keyboards that sold for $200 - $800 new are fairly easy to find for much less.

I have an old Roland keyboard and I do use it quite frequently. I wish I could say I was learning how to play well but I’m not going to push it that far.

All I know about playing a keyboard is if you depress three alternate white keys you've played a chord

A keyboard can be used for a lot more than playing. With a midi connection to your computer you can (1) record midi notes played on the keyboard instead of inputing the notes with a computer mouse or computer keyboard. (2) output midi from your computer to the keyboard and listen or record the audio output from the keyboard. (3) Most DAWs (not Band-in-a-Box or RealBand) accept midi commands from a keyboard to control the DAW transport and modify effects.

The hard part is getting the keyboard and computer programs to communicate with each other. How to do this changes not only from program to program but also depends on what task you want to do.

Do you like how the Roland sounds? If so then take advantage of what you already have!

Yes I like the sound. But bear in mind that pisno is probably almost 30 years old. So you get basic piano, organ, electric piano, harpsichord and that’s about it. It wouldn’t be much as a synthesizer. But I do agree it’s a good item to play on with full functionality.

I also have a midi controller called Oxygen 49 which I use for inputting the midi data into the computer.

From your description I'm guessing the Roland is not general midi (GM) compatible. So you would use it the same way you might use a single instrument soft synth; you would just be using an external single instrument sound engine instead.

The M-Audio Oxygen 49 is a popular midi controller. With it's keybed, knobs and buttons and self learning feature it is a good example of what things you can do with an external controller.

If the Roland is something like the EP-760 (or many other pianos they made 30 years ago) it can probably also be a controller, FWIW.

I have one still (well my daughter has it currently), a very serviceable keyboard.

Just a thought.
What model Roland is it?
If it has a working keyboard and MIDI out, it's a controller at the very least. <grin>

HP 13003


And ues it has midi in and out.

Well I'd hook MIDI up to it and test it as a controller at least .. not much to lose.
If advanced, I may even use it for sounds but controller seems your basic need and it should suffice if it has MIDI in/out connections.

Hi all:

I'm the guy who had the too-small computer and crappy soundcard. And I had the every-five-minute crash issues.

Over the last couple weeks I got the Focusrite 18i8 and I built a new computer which is a Ryzen 3900. So no more of those crash-and-burn episodes, at least not yet.

So now I have to get the hang of all that "stuff" in Band in a Box and Real Band that deal with midi, synthesizers, and all that.

Where to start? All the menus look quite foreign.

By way of background I am essentially doing two things.

One I am making backing tracks to play a guitar against. Those usually wind up in Guitar Pro because in that application I can run the tracks on an iPad, slow them down, loop them, take them on the road on trips, etc. etc. The quality of these tracks is not that important. These tracks are just to practice with. But I do like to get midi drums, bass and other instruments in the track just for sake of rounding everything out.

The second thing is I try to make backgrounds for my sister's piano tunes. She is a real musician unlike me and these are more for listening, and not practice. She is more particular about how the finished product sounds. Not the same as my down and dirty backing tracks. My sister might use the tracks just as a karaoke background for her own playing/singing.

So that's the plan anyway.

Thanks.

Michael

Where to start? I suggest you view the PGMusic videos:

https://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

I am assuming that you are relatively new to this. Thus for now I would suggest you put aside your getting better MIDI sounds and learn how to use BiaB and RB. Once you are comfortable with them then you can purchase and learn how to install them and modify them in both BiaB and RB.

Good luck.