As mainly an acoustic folky i was a little curious about NEW ACOUSTIC RTs for folk, bluegrass, Celtic, ethnic, percussion etc, and the new 2023 Audiouphile releases.
IMO, and after a listen through the demos it seems that most stuff is again a lot of the same poppy-rocky material as so many other old RTs; distorted Electric guitar sounds and drums again.

No acoustic bass, and especially NO new Andy Leftwich material!, Latter made some great universal, unsurpassed and very useful mandolin and fiddle RTs. full of clever riffs of a quality i never experienced with most other acoustic RTs .. (IMO!).

I still miss a good set of Irish style backing bazookas with the lighter sound of a greek-style 3 string round belly instrument as played by the likes of Alec Finn and Donal Lunny. Let alone uilleann pipes.

So I think i'll let Audiophile be for this round, as not much there really interests me personally, but maybe some of you can make me change my mind?
A good friend and long time BIAB user i talked into buying Audiophile 2 years ago feels the same way ..... F

IMHO, the XtraPAKs and XPro4 have the better RTs - those are worth getting for sure. I am underwhelmed by the other new RTs with the 2023
UltraPAK, to be honest.

I'm confused by this statement...
I thought the "XtraPAKs and XPro4" were just new RealStyles that used existing RealTracks.

Yep, i find the whole caboose quite confusing. And are those XtraPRO styles like 4 with audiophile RTs included?

Yeah, these X* styles are supposed to be " fresh new RealStyles ".

Maybe someone can clarify?

After using and upgrading BIAB for many many years now I find that this years RT's offered are not as great as what I have seen in the past.

Probably because my music tastes are more in the Bluegrass, Acoustic Blues, Gypsy Jazz and Traditional Jazz genres.

I do however, prefer the XtraPAKS and XtraPRO offering's better then the new RT's.

I guess I have the entire year to sample all 10,605 styles I now have. The new ones will probably grow on me as they usually do.

Now, what do we want to see in the 2024 offering? Too early to ask?

I don't thinks so. Here's what's in the audiphile version:

My sentiments exactly.

Again, I find this statement confusing.
Did you mean, you prefer the XtraPAKS and XtraPRO offering's better then the new RT's demos, or associated style sets?

That is exactly what I was saying but then again it is 100% subjective depending on the musical taste of the listener. Other's will more then likely absolutely love the RT's over the XtraPak and XtraPro sounds. Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with any of them, it is just that my taste in music does not venture that much into other areas like synth, pop, new world, new age, disco, etc...

Nothing wrong with them, just not my forte.

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand your comparison between "RT's", and "XtraPak and XtraPro sounds".

Okay, someone probably will correct me if I'm wrong:

Look at X**** (whatever) styles the same way as you would look at User styles. Yes, X* styles are a based on existing styles. Those existing styles are used to come up with completely "new" styles (same as with User styles).

I think what we're saying is that more thought and originality has been applied to those X* styles. Better arrangements, instrumentation, etc. than those "regular/new" styles that cam with whatever version of BIAB 2023 one bought.

Now, this is just my interpretation as to what X* styles are and why they are more appealing to some of us. Someone else may weigh in to either correct me or elaborate even more.

Yes, this makes sense to me, and is what I suspected you meant when I asked the above question;
Did you mean, you prefer the XtraPAKS and XtraPRO offering's better then the new RT's demos, or associated style sets?

BTW, I tend to agree, to some extent... but to me, some are gems, and some are just more gravel.

Glad, we're on the same page!

IF I have been reading this right, the created Xtra & Xpro Paks sound BETTER that the RealTracks that come with the new release is what is being said....the Created Mixes using previous styles DO sound more "Alive" than the new RT's IMHO....

The only Xtra or Xpro Paks that I can find that DO come with NEW RealTracks are Xpro 3 & 4....so i will assume that is what is meant (and we all know what happens when one Assumes! LOL! )

Let me take a crack at this.

In BIAB, there are RealTracks (and RealDrums), and there are styles. Styles you buy, or styles you can make yourself, are just collections of specific RealTracks and RealDrums that are given a convenient name. If you only use RealTracks and RealDrums, you don't really need styles at all; they are just easier to have and search for.

For MIDI, the style does do a lot more by way of instructions. However, if I use a collection of only RealTracks, no MIDI, then a polka style, Chopin, a blues, or a modern jazz style will sound the same in that song IF you select the same RealTrack(s) by number and use the same tempo and key signature.

The 'regular' BIAB packages come with lots of RealTracks and styles. The more you pay for a package (Pro, UltraPak), the more you get of each, since the base program is the same.

Then there are EDITED 'Bonus 0 or 49-packages' each year offered for extra money, and these also give you BOTH additional styles and additional RealTracks.

The quality of the RealTracks (the question about 'better') from any source is the same as the others they produce. If someone likes or doesn't like how something sounds, it's their opinion. The style likewise is just a curated collection of RealTracks, so it has no 'quality' and you are free to like their choice of how these tracks sound together, or not. If you only like some of the style, swap out the tracks you don't like to create and save your own style.

The audiophile version differs because the RealTracks and RealDrums are uncompressed, but in all other respects, things work the same. If the subject of the Audiophile version interests you, read my article on this in Tips and Tricks: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378939#Post378939

"additional RealTracks"
Matt, are you sure about that?

I know that some "additional RealTracks" are offered with the "Bonus 49 Pac", but I'm not aware of any "additional RealTracks" included in the Xtra Styles or XPro Packs.
am I wrong?

I'm not certain, but I think you are correct. I was referring to the 0 and 49-paks and will go back and edit that for clarity. Thanks.

The XtraStyles do not include any additional RealTracks because as long as you have the 2022 UltraPAK from last year you'll have all the RealTracks you need.

The 2023 XProPAK 4 does include some RealTracks and RealDrums that are not included in the 2023 or earlier XProPAK. This is from the XProPAK4 installer file:

I thought I had seen that but wasn't sure. Good work, Jim.

Yes, indeed you did say that earlier.

None of the 15 Xtra Styles say they have RealTracks.

XPro Styles 1 & 2 did not have added RealTracks; however, 3 & 4 say they do.

These two pages corroborate that:

https://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win

https://www.pgmusic.com/xpro.php?os=win

From PG Music website
XPro Styles PAK 4

Includes 30 RealTracks new to Pro users and 100 new RealStyles: 25 rock/pop styles, 25 jazz/funk styles, 25 country/bluegrass styles, and 25 styles that focus on the cajon as well as drums played with mallets.

"Includes 30 RealTracks new to Pro users"

but maybe not necessarily new to Ultra Pac Users...

I know that as a BiaB 2023 Ultra Pac user, I have several Cajon RTs without ever downloading XPro 4.

Hi Matt,

You are quite right - what really counts is New Real Tracks and NOT New Styles.

To confirm my thinking - it appears that the 4 products that contain new Real Tracks are:
- BIAB 2023
- Bonus 49 Pack (2023 version)
- XProPak 3 (2023 version)
- XProPak 4 (2023 version)

Is that correct?

Best Regards
Nigel

I believe that is correct. I did not check the 0 pak, but it would make sense that had some as well.

I usually get stumped on these issues as I'm not really interested in styles.
Many styles are very, very approximate groupings of RTs and often have little resemblance to what they're based on.
I'm interested in more RTs, more Real Drum "stems" and more RT videos.
I've used the videos thrice now and they are quite good fun in a video of a song - particularly when visual FX are used.
There doesn't seem to be much in the way of drums "stems" in the new offering and no RT videos.
The new partial regenerations seems great but I'm not sold on 23 beyond that.

It would be nice if PGMusic clarified this issue.
Do the XProPaks include RTs that are not included in the Ultra / Audiophile editions? And, if so, which ones?
thanks!

We think Xpro 3 & 4 do.

It would be nice to have some insight and transparency into what constitutes "new" RTs and where to find those in those additional packages. Just thinking out loud.

That's exactly my point. Listening to the new realtracks i found nothing that tickles my fancy & as such worthwhile buying audiophile again. Xtra PRO 2 and 4 had some nice styles regarding folky acoustic stuff, but probably use RTs i already have. Now WHICH ones are they anyway. I really get fed up with the misty information on all this 2023 upping stuff, seems almost a downer.

PS i listened to a lot again; some xtra styles sound nice, but as with the earlier bought sets i probably will never use them.
Besides for now: I got the Plus Pro Ultra Mega Blues, and i don't know what to choose ....

I opened something here LoL ...

I would be very helpful if PG could publish a complete inventory of all RTs and RDs and in what ordinary product PAKs, annual upgrades and xtra, xtra pro, 0 and 49 and other bonus paks they are available in.

I simple 2 dimension excel matrix would work fine.

This issue is very confusing and probably takes up much time from the users and also may cause users to buy duplicate content because it is impossible to find out how it works.

Actually Matt, in the info page regarding Xpro 4 the following sentence is reported:

"these additional RealTracks and RealDrums are not included in any Pro or MegaPAK package!"

But ... no mention of Ultra and Audiophile. So, should we infer that the RTs and RDs of Xpro4 are, indeed, already included in the Ultra and Audiophile versions already? Or maybe some but not all?

A bit of clarity would be nice.

How many hours are spent on this sort of "Pak" confusion yearly?
Users + PGteam

There is a menu in BIAB: "What add ons I have",

This should be programmed a bit better, so user has a clear understanding of what they have, what is available and exactly what is included in a particular package that they do not have.

I normally upgrade annually with the Plus-PAK. I have just upgraded to 2023 Plus PAK.

Regarding the posts above what extra RealTracks and RealDrums that comes with XPRO styles PAK 3 and 4 I have just made an inventory of my system.

I used to by the XTR styles and XPRO styles pak as well as the 49 PAK before, but have now stopped.
When it comes to the new RTs and RDs i think i will get them anyway in the following year annual PlusPak upgrade.

I have already puchased XPRO3 but I have NOT purchased XPRO4. So i just made an inventory to se what I have in my system after the 2023 annual plus-PAK upgrade.

Checking with the list of new RTs and RDs included in XPRO4 pak I have them all! and I have not purchased XPRO4. So my best guess is that it is included in the following year annual plus-PAK upgrade, and it is probably the same with the 49-PAK. (I don't know how it is with the rest of the material eg RealStyles, I only checked the RealTracks and RealDrums).

So to my understanding when it comes to RTs and RDs if I am purchasing these paks I am probably paying for the content twice it will be the price to have the material available one year in advance of the normal december plus-PAK upgrade. But I might be wrong there is no information available how it works.

It's not the RTs that matter, it's the styles... They can make you great styles with RTs you've had for years. It's the styles you pay for, or not.



Exactly !

XPro Styles PAK 4
Includes 30 RealTracks "new to Pro users"
but are those 30 RealTracks new to Ultra and Audiophile users???


Agree +++1
I have not purchased or downloaded XPro Styles PAK 4

I have installed the 2023 Ultra Pack,

What Band-in-a-Box Add-ons do I have?
These add-ons are not found...
RealTrack Sets (NOT found
RealTracks sets in C:\bb\RealTracks\ :
You have all of the RealTracks. (unless we've made some new ones)

that last line seems somewhat ambiguous..?

After checking in details, it seems to me that the RTs included in XproStyles 4 are indeed already included in the Ultra and Audiophile packs. So, mystery solved I guess :-)

I'm just curious: aren't styles just various combinations of RTs? Or is there more to the styles?

I myself now rarely use styles -- I just build the song picking RTs that fit what I'm looking for. I have bought all of the Xtra Styles and XPRo Styles, but given the way I now work, I'm using them less now given the way I work and the fact that I have the ultra pak.

I'm new to BIAB, but it seems to me that RealTracks are the sounds (timbre) that are played and Styles are the rhythms/notes (notation) according to which those sounds are played. RealTracks determine how the instruments sound while Styles determine when each note is played.

I've collected all the RealTracks but I now see that the XtraPak Styles are where those RealTracks are leveraged and made to shine.

DWTrue, your post deserves a new thread... but I will try to answer.
RealTracks + RealDrums are a library of performances in audio format, recorded by many talented musicians mainly with real acoustic / electric instruments in many different genres. They are specially constructed to follow notation / chord instructions in BIAB and related PGmusic programs.

Styles are combination of RealTracks and RealDrums (and MIDI+Loops) that sound good together. Style include mixer settings + inserted FX and a basic chord progression demo. Styles are a good starting point or just examples how certain RealTracks can sound in a song.

You can totally create your own styles from RealTracks by choosing up to 24(!) Real tracks that can play simultaneously and writing your own progressions.

Ric, you're right and MoultiPass has a unique perspective that I don't share.
Styles are combinations of RTs, RDs and Midi/loops etc.
Many styles are, stylistically, misnamed and create a rabbit hole for the user looking for a style that matches a song.
Styles can be as restrictive as they can be helpful.