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Are there any free download DAWs out there? I mean decent ones that function good enough for me to get the taste of them and also use Garritan software and then pop into Biab, and or Rb. Thanks 
Critter
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Nearly every DAW has a demo function to let you get the hang of them before spending your money.
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Reaper has a nice trial period and it's fully functional. The secret to it is right click, right click, right click. It has a lot of menu's but just take your time and don't be overwhelmed. The pdf for it is well written and there's some tutorials on youtube.
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Critter,
With Reaper, it's possible to continue using it past the trial period, too. It simply keeps reminding you purchase it. It's such a good DAW that I had no hesitation paying $40 to get it. It's a very elaborate tool and has a bit of a learning curve associated with it. To help get on top of it, though, there is some excellent documentation.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Just out of curiosity, and respectfully, I would like to ask:
Why, if you have RealBand, would you want any other DAW?
-ff
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Just so you know, the price of Reaper has gone to $60. Still way worth it. On the free side of things, besides the various demo and cut-down versions of the major DAWs, there's also Linux MultiMedia Studio (yes, it's also for Windows), Traverso, Acid Xpress, or DarkWave Studio. There are even online, browser-based DAWs.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2024 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Quote:
...there's also Linux MultiMedia Studio (yes, it's also for Windows), Traverso, Acid Xpress, or DarkWave Studio...
If you want maximum versatility, LMMS and Traverso will work in Linux, Windows, and Mac.
DarkWave is really good, but limits you to a questionable relationship with "Slippery Bill" Gates... 
I use "Ardour" - http://ardour.org/ - in "PureDyne" - http://puredyne.org/ - Linux... both completely free.
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Flatfoot, the reason for many is that RB still has a few struggles with some VSTi's. That for me is the ONLY reason. I hope that the next version brings that to a screeching halt.
There are only two things i want to see updated in RB, one is the VSTi thing, and a more user friendly automation system with a node based GUI.
Fix those and them incremental stablity and refinements. Slowly refine the looping tool, and the audio tools. Add some more really cool RTs.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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For me, to come back to the PG fold, I would use Robh's list, but also I need to see a completely different way of just plain 'getting things done' that are underlying technical connectivity items, so that making music is fun, not a chore.
Some attitude change is necessary, and perhaps is starting to show a turnaround.
The about face attitude change that is at the heart of Robh's points is twofold, IMO:
1. Design the software so that the tools freely available outside of PG's self-created tools are functional. This means, no more explaining away why ASIO implementation seems so difficult (recent threads from several purchasers of PG stuff) and actually making it work as a default, not as a nice-to-have feature. It also means that VST/VSTi implementation should be full, and not 80% there.
I see somewhat of an attitude change from PG on this with the recent inclusion of Amplitube. They've made the decision to include a product in their own that in it's most pure form, expects people to 'play' it, not just push pre-recorded stuff through it. Amplitube does sync to the host tempo for it's included delays and choruses, etc. Has anyone checked to see whether this works with the RB included version?
Question to those that now have the latest incarnation of RB - has anyone tried to see if the jam-along feature of Jamstix might actually work now? What would be really bad would be if it worked and nobody knew it.
2. PG should look to PG outsider feature requests as much as insider PG feature requests and implement the coolest stuff that's out there from both camps. Robh's example of node-based automation is a shining example of not paying attention to outsider requests. Node based automation is simply par for the course with other DAW software. The math behind it is really easy for the most part: y=mx+b; y = resultant CC value, m=computed slope between nodes, x=timecode, b=cc offset value. Most DAW software started off using a simple interpolation between nodes, but now they've moved on farther than that to non-linear interpolation between nodes. This is standard fare; except in PG stuff.
If PG only looks inside and to it's installed user base to see where to improve and whom to please, the company runs the risk of suffering the fate of bygone industrial powerhouses. I give Oldsmobile, Burroughs, Studebaker, and a host of other formerly great companies as examples of serving only your known customer base. "When EF Hutton talks, people listen." Evidently, not enough people.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 12/15/11 01:20 PM.
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Robh and Scott, (aka rockstar_not),
Since both of you know a thousand times more than I do about DAW’s, let me ask a very simple question.
For the average home recording artist, is there anything RB can’t do that would prohibit them from recording a perfectly good demo or home CD that would include EQ, Compression and Reverb?
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Journeyman
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Real Band can do what is asked of the average home user BUT it is not the easiest DAW to get your head around. Reaper is extremely good but also can be quite complicated. But then most pro DAWs are complicated. Everyone wants and expects them to do everything so they do and it takes a lot to learn them. Real Band is free with BIAB and therefore the best FREE DAW as you all ready own it if you have BIAB. Don't own BIAB then Reaper at $60.00 is a super buy!
You might also want to check out the Computer Music mag from England (available at most good bookstores). It has a couple of free DAW's along with a ton of vsts and plug ins on its mag disk.
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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Earl, I haven’t done any recording in a few years, but I do have several DAW’s. Using a dual boot system between XP 32 and Win 7 64, I have Sonar 4 PE, Cakewalk Home Studio 2004XL, Tracktion 3 Ultimate Bundle (what a total POS,  LOL), Logic for Windows using Roland SI-24 for RPC-1 PCI card, and Real Band. I’ve never used RB, but my favorite of the others is Sonar, followed with Home Studio. RB looks very similar to Logic, but probably doesn’t go as deep. The question is, for the home enthusiast, do they need more than RB? Even though I have an old version of Sonar, it does much more than I could ever want or need. The point is, most DAW’s do more than most folks at home even know how to use! So why pay through the nose when all you want to do is lay down a few tracks?
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Quote:
Robh and Scott, (aka rockstar_not),
Since both of you know a thousand times more than I do about DAW’s, let me ask a very simple question.
For the average home recording artist, is there anything RB can’t do that would prohibit them from recording a perfectly good demo or home CD that would include EQ, Compression and Reverb?
That's a loaded question - with the 'perfectly good' aspect being very subjective in nature.
Here's what folks are starting to expect; since you can do it now on your iPhone.
Amp simulation; realtime, record it, etc. You can get a killer version of Amplitube for your danged iPhone these days and have a Marshall Plexi stack in your pocket as a result. For $39! The interface and the ability to record it.
'Perfectly good' includes that kind of functionality when it works on the iPhone now. That's my opinion.
Assignment of inputs and outputs, slots, etc. seems overly complicated in PG products when I read the help provided here to folks that go 'huh?' when they can't get sound end-to-end for play-through. Watch how often this comes up in the next couple months with Amplitube bundled in. The forums (is that proper plural for forum?) here are already starting to get loaded with those questions.
Now, if your opinion of 'perfectly good' means that one can record an input, apply the treatments you describe, and save out files for a CD - then I say: "Save Your Money", as in all of it, and just use freeware. Audacity, Wavosaur, Podium, several that are bundled with Computer Music magazine, all have this kind of capability, as does Cubase LE which comes bundled with a shed-load of audio interfaces. In fact, I don't know of any audio interface that's on the entry-level side of the business that doesn't include a 'perfectly good' DAW software in the purchase. Many of these have the play-through thing nailed down. Workflow varies in these different bundled DAW softwares, and amount of capability turned off from the non-bundled version varies, but they all provide your definition of 'perfectly good'.
So, kind of a long answer, but it does depend on what you mean by 'perfectly good'.
About that 'thousand times' comment - I couldn't flatpick a bluegrass tune if my life depended on it.
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Scott, Quote:
So, kind of a long answer, but it does depend on what you mean by 'perfectly good'.
Since none of us are going to be "FAMOUS", "perfectly good" just means an approximate portrayal of what our song would sound like if we played it in a live setting with a few competent musicians backing us up.
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Scott,
For example, … we all are guilty of purchasing “Upgrades” for no other reason than that they’re available.
I bought upgrades to BIAB every year up until 2009. I couldn’t tell a rats ass difference between the old and the new. Why? Because I only used the most basic functions for backup.
Now that I see where they may have fixed some egregious errors in how they handle bluegrass, …… I can no longer afford upgrades.
I suspect that what the “average” user wants in a DAW is Play, Pause, Record, Stop, FFWD and Rewind. EQ, Compression and Reverb are just icing on the cake.
That means any “intuitive” DAW would suffice.
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Bob here is my take on it. the answer is yes. I use RB all the time. I have not opened Sonar, or Reaper in about a month. Sonar is deeper, and more feature rich than RB, but not as far as you might think. RB does everything you need including automation.
The problem is that some of it need a small upgrade. and Scott is right about ASIO. It works fine in RB, BUT! Not as fine as in most other host. In Sonar, MTS (personal fav) and Reaper it works Better than WDM (mme). In RB MME (WDM) works better than ASIO.
I can use ASIO on RB in my system, but it takes more horsepower.
VSTi works fine in RB, as long as it does not require tempo lock, like jamstix does.
Automation works fine in RB, but requires either fader recording (very unprecise), or in the piano roll you can draw automation with a mouse, but it is far harder to get very presice with that as well. Plus as far as I know it does not do anything but volume and panning. Being able to automate effects, busses, and such is really cool.
The other day i took a song i had written, and did the song track bed in BiaB. Added some live guitar tracks, and vocals, and mixed it isn RB, Sonar, and Reaper. In the end result, the RB mix was every bit as good as the others, in fact i chose it over them, as the final mix.
I love RB, i even like the work flow it is simple to me, and does not require a degree in layered software to use it.
There some upgrades i would like to see regarding the buss, and main output system, but this one works.
For me the VSTi, and the Automation is a big deal, i want to see those two addressed, then following that, i want to see ASIO grow up a bit. After that i am fine with slow easy growth, and add ons for work flow, like enhancements to looping, and audio tools.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Robh,
All of what you mentioned are excellent points. But I think we’re missing the “forest because of the trees”!
I think that most of the folks who ask about DAW’s on this forum are people who just want to make a recording. They probably wouldn’t have a clue about what you just said in your last post. …… But guess what? Because you said they needed those things, … even though they don’t know what they are, … they’ll look elsewhere!
I’m not promoting RB. I like my old version of Sonar. I understand it for the most part.
I just think that unless folks are asking for advanced functions, we shouldn’t steer them to ever more confusing software.
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Quote:
Scott,
For example, … we all are guilty of purchasing “Upgrades” for no other reason than that they’re available.
I bought upgrades to BIAB every year up until 2009. I couldn’t tell a rats ass difference between the old and the new. Why? Because I only used the most basic functions for backup.
Now that I see where they may have fixed some egregious errors in how they handle bluegrass, …… I can no longer afford upgrades.
I suspect that what the “average” user wants in a DAW is Play, Pause, Record, Stop, FFWD and Rewind. EQ, Compression and Reverb are just icing on the cake.
That means any “intuitive” DAW would suffice.
This is where I differ from you. I don't purchase upgrades until I'm convinced I've sussed out available opportunities with what I have. I bought 2 versions of PowerTracks Pro Audio over an 8 year period of use.
The average user can get by without making a DAW purchase whatsoever, as long as they bought an entry-level audio card. It's the quite more expensive cards that assume you have a DAW and are just upgrading the I/O.
Cubase LE works a treat for this. As do the lite versions of the other DAW softwares that are often bundled with cards.
The Studio 1 product from PreSonus is outstanding as a standalone product - comes free with PreSonus interfaces. They make you pay for VST/VSTi capability, but for the functions you describe, it's incredibly well-done. For FREE.
-Scott
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Quote:
Flatfoot, the reason for many is that RB still has a few struggles with some VSTi's. That for me is the ONLY reason. I hope that the next version brings that to a screeching halt.
There are only two things i want to see updated in RB, one is the VSTi thing, and a more user friendly automation system with a node based GUI.
Fix those and them incremental stablity and refinements. Slowly refine the looping tool, and the audio tools. Add some more really cool RTs.
Precisely my problems with RB. I don't like the workflow, I don't like the interface, I don't like being limited with VSTs. (BIAB, having the same limitations, is a different beastie -- I use that to prepare stuff for my DAW {Reaper}.)
I also can't seem to configure ASIO for the dang thing no matter what I do. Sigh.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2024 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Scott, Quote:
The average user can get by without making a DAW purchase whatsoever, as long as they bought an entry-level audio card.
So we actually DO agree! Until you’ve totally exhausted what any freebie DAW can do, you shouldn’t even think about an upgrade!
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