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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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PS Since posting the above, I've rechecked my system's performance in Task Manager with this batch of songs, and find my memory was playing tricks.
CPU Usage leaps up to 100% and hovers there or just under until the song starts to play. On the other hand, the usage of physical memory is modest, with available memory dipping slightly, but hovering around 1/3 of the total 1GB.
So it looks as though I'm going to have to dig deep into my sporran and get a laptop with a much faster processor if I'm to get a quick response on a gig, but that I may not need to go over the top with memory capacity.
As it happens, my clarinet-playing colleague has a new laptop which we use on gigs, so mine is used for preparing songs and individual practice, and will only be used on gigs if something bad happens to his one.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread - I've learned a lot about BIAB while looking into it - and I obviously have to keep Fast Generation switched off.
I still think there's a problem with the underlying Fast Generation code which has been revealed, not caused, by my slower machine. If the "Next" button is pressed after a song has started but before the generation is complete (or the equivalent in JukeBox), BIAB doesn't tidy up properly before starting on the next song, and trips itself up.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Quote:
PS Since posting the above, I've rechecked my system's performance in Task Manager with this batch of songs, and find my memory was playing tricks.
CPU Usage leaps up to 100% and hovers there or just under until the song starts to play. On the other hand, the usage of physical memory is modest, with available memory dipping slightly, but hovering around 1/3 of the total 1GB.
CPU ramping up to 100% is not a bad thing. (Unless it goes there and stays there...) Using 100% of the CPU is exactly what we want to see when performing such tasks. Good thing. But read on...
Bear in mind that there *must* be some of that 1gig left untouched by the application as the Operating System is going to chew up quite a bit of ram. Also, if your computer uses onboard video with ram sharing, there will typically be a chunk of your physical ram set aside for the video only, this can be as much as one forth of the 1gig total. An application such as BiaB will get a portion of ram, but if that is filled, then the OS goes into the disk swap routine in an attempt to provide more ram space by using part of the hard drive. This swap can lead to timing probs with realtracks. The real answer to this problem is to install more physical ram in the computer. Adding a nother gig is a great idea and doesn't cost all that much these days. There should be a decided difference in performance when using 2g as vs the 1g, matter of fact, 1g is considered barely enough to run the operating system these days and that goes even if running the lowly old XP. Upgrade your ramcount.
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So it looks as though I'm going to have to dig deep into my sporran and get a laptop with a much faster processor if I'm to get a quick response on a gig, but that I may not need to go over the top with memory capacity.
Rethink on the ramcount front. "You can never have enough physical ram"
On the other hand, there is no need to overload the ramcount either. But most puter deals out there do not include enough ram to begin with at purchase time for doing our kind of work. When I pick up a new one, I always allocate a little bit more for extra ramsticks of the proper size and type. This can often mean having to put two sticks of brand new ram in the parts drawer immediately upon purchaae as the proper use of Double Density (DDR) type sticks means using matched pairs and the mfrs typiocally will do things like install two sticks of 512 to yield 1g - meaning that to properly install 2g, the 512s must be reomoved and replaced with two 1g DDR sticks. Still, it is worth it, especially keeping that live performance issue in mind.
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As it happens, my clarinet-playing colleague has a new laptop which we use on gigs, so mine is used for preparing songs and individual practice, and will only be used on gigs if something bad happens to his one.
I heartily reommend that you look into raising the ramcount on your older computer before giving up on it. I personally am known for using all sorts of aging XP junk on the live gigs. The only real difference is the loading time of realtracks, which can be gotten around with the use of Freeze tracks. Myself, I have developed the habit of immediately loading the next songfile as soon as I'm done playing he last song, giving more time but making such invisible to my audience. But I don't like to use the Jukebox much on live gigs, preferring the "wait for MIDI input" command to actually start songs.
Quote:
I still think there's a problem with the underlying Fast Generation code which has been revealed, not caused, by my slower machine. If the "Next" button is pressed after a song has started but before the generation is complete (or the equivalent in JukeBox), BIAB doesn't tidy up properly before starting on the next song, and trips itself up.
FWIW, I have developed the habit of not trying to tell BB to do something while it is still doing the first thing *grin*.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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OP
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I'm revisiting this problem, as my clarinettist colleague has been persuaded to use my RealTrack-enhanced versions of our repertoire, synched via Dropbox, as the definitive list, but when he tries to use JukeBox for practice he gets crashes and missing voices in the songs.
He gets very tetchy when this happens, and blames me for interrupting his practice sessions, but I think it's probably happening because he's inclined to set the JukeBox to random, and to click the next button if he's recently practised the song he's offered.
If I can calm him down enough to set RealTracks options as if for a slow computer ("But my computer ISN'T a slow one!"), I'll be able to test this theory.
Incidentally, I've just upped the memory on my elderly laptop to (the maximum) of 2G, but before-and-after stop-watch timings of "Play" and "Generate" have demonstrated absolutely no benefit. As the CPU usage goes up to 100% when generation is taking place, I conclude that the problem is not memory size or disc speed but a lack of raw CPU power.
That's fifty quid that could have bought me a lot of porage!
It would be helpful to have a more elegant way of dealing with the speed of play-back overtaking the process of RealTracks generation, but I suspect that I may be a lone voice here.
Incidentally, Mac, how do you generate the next song without the risk of it's starting to play before you want it to? I can't find a "generate-but-don't-play" button.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Quote:
...Incidentally, Mac, how do you generate the next song without the risk of it's starting to play before you want it to? I can't find a "generate-but-don't-play" button.
One way is to hit the Prefs toolbar button and in the first Prefs Window, take a look on the RH side for "Pause Play until MIDI or Key Received" and check it.
When a songfile is opened, it will then not immediately play, you have to hit either any key on a MIDI keyboard or instrument that is attached to the computer and recognized by BB to start the song, OR hit any key on the computer keyboard to start the song.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
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Quote:
It would be helpful to have a more elegant way of dealing with the speed of play-back overtaking the process of RealTracks generation, but I suspect that I may be a lone voice here.
There is, it's called a fast machine as I've said like 25 times already. Your friend can be as techy as he wants, he doesn't understand how the RT's work and how manipulating audio files in real time requires the latest and greatest to avoid frustrations.
I'm certainly not making fun of anybody or trying to make you feel bad or anything. Money is a big issue to a lot of people in this rotten economy so if someone can't afford it, they can't afford it. If that's the case with you or your friend then just realize you'll just have to live with some limitations until you can get a faster system.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 09/13/12 01:11 PM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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Bob, I take your point, but the specification here... http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.requirements.htm...makes no mention of CPU type or clock speed, and only asks for a minimum of 512MB of RAM. Crashes, segmentation violations and missing instruments on songs don't immediately suggest to the user that his computer isn't powerful enough. I wonder if a dual progress indicator like there is in a YouTube viewer could be implemented instead of the text indicator saying how many % of the track for each instrument had been generated. If proportion of total played is seen to catch up with proportion of total generated just before things start going wrong, the obvious conclusion can be drawn. I'm not getting these crashes now that I've disabled fast generation, and I hope my colleague will follow suit. Mac, Thanks for the tip - it's just a matter of knowing (and remembering!) where to look...
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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