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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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OP
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I think I understand how midi volume control works with CC7 and CC11 and using them with the events list. I don't seem to know how the volume settings work in the BIAB window though. I see that the mixer sliders are tied to instrument settings in the upper left hand screen. I also know about the volume adjustment in the Melody drop down window. Those controls all work to reduce the volume while the song is playing as do the adjustments in the Bar settings window. However, when I hit the play button again, the volume goes back to where it was before regrardless of what shows on the mixer window or instruments. I realize that the style regenerates, but from what I read in Help, the melody volume is supposed to be independent. I finally just go to the events list and insert a cc7 or cc11 to get the melody volume adjusted. I'm wondering if this is the only way you can make volume adjustments if you are using a hardware synth such as my SD2? I appreciate any comments. Thanks.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Enthusiast
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I only use software synths, but I was thinking about your problem and I remembered that BIAB has a MIDI Monitor that you can use to analyze the MIDI codes being generated. I tried various volume settings in BIAB and looked at the resulting MIDI codes. Changes to the volume in BIAB had no effect on the MIDI codes being generated. There were also no codes being sent for tone, pan or reverb--Those are the other controls next to the volume control in BIAB. Therefore, I believe that controls are applied to the tone after it is returned to BIAB from the synth. If your hardware is setup so that the external sythn is output to an amplifier (I don't know if there is another way) then BIAB cannot process the sound afterward, and so you would have to create CC events, instead, to control these aspects of the sound.
Now, maybe someone who uses hardware synths may be able to tell you if there is a different way to setup the hardware, or if there is a way to force BIAB to send CC events for volume when you play a song.
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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OP
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Thanks Jim. I do have a sound module and all midi in and out goes through it. In fact my hardware synth has to be turned on when I use Sibelius also. When I render a song to a .wav file, that is both midi and real tracks, the hardware snyth will just play the midi and the audio tracks will be silent as the render takes place. The .wav works fine though. When using a hardware synth, you have to use the re render button in the render window and there are specific references to hardware synths in HELP also. I did see that BIAB inserts an all channel cc7 data = 100 at the beginning of the chorus for the midi melody track. I've been going to the Events List and lowering that number which seems to work. I think your analysis is correct, Jim. As you can see, I have quite a ways to go to grasp some of these basic concepts. Thanks again.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
........ BIAB has a MIDI Monitor that you can use to analyze the MIDI codes being generated. I tried various volume settings in BIAB and looked at the resulting MIDI codes. Changes to the volume in BIAB had no effect on the MIDI codes being generated. There were also no codes being sent for tone, pan or reverb--Those are the other controls next to the volume control in BIAB. ...........
That's never been the case here, going back many versions of BB. Make sure the midi monitor is not filtering out the data you want to see. Volume is cc7, pan is cc10, and midi reverb is cc91, and of course the appropriate channels need to be enabled in the monitor. Changes to these controllers will be registered whether triggered from the main screen or from the mixer. They will also be sent out the midi port if it is properly configured. Note: "A.Reverb" and "Tone" are for audio tracks and do not trigger midi events AFAIK.
OP: The melody track can be set to honor controller messages just as the other tracks can. There are switches for this in both the style itself and in the song settings. So if a particular controller is enabled and fixed to a value in either of those "places" (and not disabled by an override) any change made by the user will be reset to the value stored in the style or song on hitting play.
Nutshell: with the program properly configured, adjustments to BB midi controllers from within BB should stick and should be sent to an external synth (just as they are to a VSTi). (Whether the synth is configured to process them is another issue.)
Hope this helps. -Ron
EDIT - Stan, from your second post, I see you've confirmed some of this.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975 |
Hello Stan,
Some older styles might have volume changes in the style, maybe that's what is happening. Press Ctrl+shift+f9 to open the stylemaker. Press the Misc button and uncheck 'allow volume changes with style' if checked.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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OP
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It's not the volume in the styles that I'm concerned with for what I'm doing right now. It's just the melody volume. I'm not sure where the cc7 data = 100 comes from, but it's at the beginning of the melody. There must be a default built in to put it there because I didn't. However, I just go to the event list and edit it to a lower value so I acoomplish what I need. If it were up to me, I wouldn't even have a melody in there except maybe for the intro and ending. However, my wife wants it there in case she gets lost so.......... I try to lower the melody volume down to where it can just be heard.
Thanks for the help. I'll check the settings in the style and song settings.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
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Did you record the melody from a MIDI keyboard?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Andrew. No, I input everything into Sibelius and export to a Midi file and then load the midi file into BIAB after I do the chords. Seems like the Events List route is all that works with my setup, but that's okay as long as I can get the job done.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975 |
Hello Stan,
My guess is that the volume controllers are being saved in the MIDI file by Sibelius. When you import a MIDI file into BB via 'Melody | Edit | Import melody from MIDI file', there is an option to not import continuous controllers (such as volume).
But maybe there are some controllers that you DO want... There could be options in Sibelius having to do with excluding data in saved MIDI files.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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OP
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There's probably no telling what Sibelius does and I have a very old version 4.2. Still, it's easier for me to use it than the notation feature on BIAB since I do a lot of copying and pasting. I guess I've used it for so long that it's just easier for me. Don't know what happened today but each time I render to .wav, biab locks up and I get a fatal error message. I reset to factory settings and rebooted, but it did it again. I can get out using task manager though even with the fatal error message. Not a big deal.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Same thing again today with a different file and even the event list CC inserts don't work on the melody track now. Guess I'll just have to do the stuff in Real Band.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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I use the short cut keys control shift q to reduce volume and control shift w to increase volume for each part during play back.
You also must first set the midi channel to the part you are adjusting by pressing control 2 through control 9.
Example
1 Press control 9 to set the channel to the melody part.
2 Press and hold Control shift q or w to move the volume up or down.
3 You must press the alt f2 function key if you want to save the new volume setting with your song.
Using this method even if I stop and restart the play back the volume stays the same.
I'm sure their are buttons you can click to accomplish the same task, but I only know the keyboard short cuts.
Tim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Tim. I have never used any keyboard shortcuts, but nothing to lose by trying them. I'm also going to start a new file and re-enter a melody to see if that makes any difference. I have been using melodies done by others.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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