|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Maybe I'm missing something here ? I could be wrong but the Volume slider is moving up and down with the nodes, making things impossible to mix, the volume sliders should remain still, interdependent of the nodes so to adjust the overall volume on the track without the slider moving by it's self as you go to adjust it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,161
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,161 |
If you are talking about Audio Tracks, then what you are doing with the nodes is to add CC7 Volumn data to your track as can be seen from the Event List. This indeed acts exactly as you describe. I would be much happier if you could separate the overall mix volumn from the alterations caused by Node changes. This would enable changes made to the overall track volumn in the mix to be reflected by relative changes to the node values. In Midi, this is the relationship which CC11 Expression has with CC7 Volumn.
Maybe, you could allocate the track(s) to Groups in the Mixer where you can then change the Group Volumn in relation to other Groups and retain the track Nodes without change.
I hope this is of some help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Here is a video of nodes in Audition, Reaper and Realband, watch the volume sliders. Nodes.MP4
Nodes.WMV
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612 |
I think LynB explained it.
There are two readily available controllers for volume. CC7 (volume) and CC11 (expression)
These work together by having CC7 set the loudest point a track can be (volume-wise) and CC11 controlling the range of messages from 0 to whatever CC7 set as the max volume. Both CC7 and CC11 can change at any point, but they remain in relation; CC11 always obeys the range set by CC7.
Sounds like you want the slider to be CC7 and the node to be CC11. I see why that would be good for some users.
Others may want to control the actual mixer slider. They are two different things and affect the chain differently.
It would be interesting to hear from both sides.
Personally, I'm hoping a next release has this 'node' feature assignable to different CC#'s .. so we can use it however we want. That would be cool.
Last edited by rharv; 12/27/13 05:27 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
You don't want this when working with audio, midi sure, you may as well just record mixer moves.
It is not a standard, did they do it this way because it was easy ? It would be great to be able to do it all in Realband with this and loops ect.. but you can't, let alone mix and master, you have to get the basic tracks done and get the hell out of it in to a proper DAW before you get yet another "Access Violation". They need to spend more time on proper DAW's to see how things work. Realtracks are wonderful don't get me wrong but the interface is so junior school and BUGGY and it takes years for a slight change, and you seem to have to fight to get industry standard things done. When you spend $200-$350 per year it would be great to see things happen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792 |
I believe that this was just giving a new face to record mixer moves. SR could you explain your thoughts on why this method is not acceptable.
I am curious, and really want to know. Is not volume automation just turning the volume up or down?
In your mind is it a resource hog? Now I am really wondering.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 272
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 272 |
Seems to me what Rharv is suggesting would be ideal, having the ability to choose between the two methods. I could see myself wanting to use one or the other, depending on situation.
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Solution:
They need to take a Quantum Leap out of the old ways, get in a Professional Studio Audio Engineer software Consultant, new programers, movers and shakers etc.. or 5 years from now when they have fade curves it will still move the track volume slider.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612 |
Solution:
Put it in the wishlist forum where the developers and owner look for these type of ideas, and consider the idea and the feedback of others.
FWIW, what I see as the actual problem is that (even with 'Send realtime messages' and 'Send most recent controller' enabled) RB is not doing sending the most recent Node setting on the Audio tracks, so the slider is not resetting to where it should be when play is started at a random point in a song. I see this as a valid complaint. The slider moving; not so problem .. the slider not resetting; yes, a problem.
If you rewind (so the initial Node is sent) it does reset.
I can pass this on to support, as can you.
Using the CC11 (like the others do) adds a complexity to it for some users. Say you get the nodes set to exactly the volumes you want throughout a song. Later you decide to turn the slider up for that track to get it louder in one spot .. now all your Nodes are changed because the scale used by the Nodes has changed, so you may find yourself going back through and changing all your Nodes.
They had to pick one way or the other. They chose the one that would be simplest for the user (at least for the initial feature launch). It would have been just as easy for them to make it happen on CC11 as CC7, so I wouldn't say they did it this way because it was easier. I think it was with forethought.
When the Nodes are hidden, seeing the slider move may be a plus for some users, so they can 'see' what is going on.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792 |
I will ask the question again and hopefully get an answer. Why is the slider moving a problem? Does the other DAWs that the slider does not move actually do something different other than the slider does not actually move? Does the volume change from another level, or reason? Personally i like seeing the slider move it lets me know it is actually happening to the degree i want. But as SR seems concerned i am really curious what point i am missing.
SR, it seems you also have other issues here, with access violations, i have zero of these now days so i can't feel your pain, but is this just a moment of frustration, or is this one feature really that bad. Please do not think i am giving you a bad time i really want to know why this is bad. I guess the real question is do other DAW programs use CC7 and or CC11 to change the volume on audio tracks?
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
..Why is the slider moving a problem? It renders the volume control useless, it now serves no purpose, the only way to bring the volume of the track down in the mix is go through every node and move them down, listen again to the mix and say oh no, that has to go down a bit more and go through every node and move it down more, listen to the mix, oh no that is too much, go through every node and put them all up a bit and hope it is right this time, ok now for the next track, ad infinitum.... I really sorry, it is most likely my fault, I think I'm asking too much, I should wait fifty years for these things to evolve naturally in their own time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,612 |
I do see what SR is saying.
Once Nodes are set they take control of the slider. It is not a simple matter of moving the slider up/down when mixing, as the first Node message takes it over.
THIS is why CC11 seems like the best solution. The slider would set the overall volume (CC7) and the Nodes (CC11) would adjust inside of that setting.
Also, as it stands right now the slider does not reset to the correct position until a Node is hit; it does not 'look back' to where it is supposed to be when you start palyback at a given point in a song.
Example;
use Nodes to create a fade out at the end of a song. Play that section. The slider ends at zero.
Now put the cursor a couple measures before the fade out and hit play .. the volume slider stays down until the Next Node is hit to tell it where to go.
These are issues that need to be looked at, but support/development is where it needs to be brought up. This forum isn't going to fix any of it.
I notified development/support in my usual way. I suggest SR put it in the wishlist or send an email to support. I can't promise anything, but they do pay attention.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
You just need volume and pan envelopes, any automation can be done in the mixer window.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Also if you cut a section of track and the copy nodes is still ticked it will then insert nodes even if there were none on the track, that will again disable the volume slider now on that track.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792 |
Gotcha, i get it now. I also agree that evolution of these type feature seem to go slow, most likely since there is so much else to work on and adjust with all the systems it does have, super midi, RTs Rd, Multiriff,Style generation. Node based automation was my big gripe, and now we have it, and maybe they will make a small adjustment and make it work a little different as you and Rharv suggest. Panning would be nice. I like the way Studio one handles this by allowing you to toggle between the automation tracks. The other thing is that RB is truly not as stable as main stream DAWs yet. For me it is pretty solid, but trips over things like certain VST plugs. I do not expect RB to ever be a Cubase, or Sonar, or a Studio one (which i like the best of those three, but is still behind the other two a bit in some ways, but better in some others) but i would like to see just a few more upgrades, and then really work on stability and compatibility. Rework this node system, add panning to it. Fix the compatibility with VSTis with timing lock, and such. Really after that for me it is not likely i would open other programs much. I would like to see at some point a solid upgrade to how audio editing is done. Do an audio edit in Sonar or Studio one and it is seamless. Watch the studio one comping video and see how that is handled. http://www.presonus.com/videos/player#Studio-One-25-Comping Yes i know you can loop and record several tracks in a row, and use volume automation to comp, but after you see what real advanced comping is like, that seems tedious.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
Solution:
Put it in the wishlist forum where the developers and owner look for these type of ideas, and consider the idea and the feedback of others. Great Idea ! Feb 2012 yes I repeat FEB 2012 !
Volume & Fader Curves
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975 |
))) I could be wrong but the Volume slider is moving up and down with the nodes, making things impossible to mix, the volume sliders should remain still, interdependent of the nodes so to adjust the overall volume on the track without the slider moving by it's self as you go to adjust it.
Another way would be to have a volume setting that controls the whole track. For example, Ctrl click dragging the volume slider could increase all nodes by the amount of the drag, so it would then be functioning as the overall volume control that you are talking about. Without introducing 2 types of volume changes, which could be confusing.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,827 |
How it is now is for Automation only, this makes mixing impossible, you don't want to see volume sliders going up and down then trying to grab hold of a slider or a pan knob while holding the Ctrl key, you need simple Volume and Pan node envelopes like every other DAW , they have this, and Automation. You need these for non deconstructive editing just to mute a part of the RT or bring a section up for the chorus, mute the unwanted noises in between vocals like clearing the throat, or pan a solo from L/R etc.. without it effecting the mixer that you are looking at while mixing, it will throw you off the mix with sliders going up and down, you need to visually see where the slide levels are. I already have Automation in the Mixer Windows. This is not like some weird request it is a DAW standard. Even Audacity has it, the volume slider has not moved yet the volume went down: 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,792 |
yeah i see what you mean, and will add that it should be a non destructive type edit. Also I will say that to remove coughs or such noises i don't use envelopes, i actually open the audio editing window and just erase the offending noise all together.
I think that back in 2012 i said add also effects, and busses and such, but actually i realize that that some of that is already possible thru mixer automation. So i just ask for what SR is asking , that would be very useful.
Last edited by Robh; 12/29/13 09:32 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RealBand
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975 |
))) How it is now is for Automation only, this makes mixing impossible, you don't want to see volume sliders going up and down then trying to grab hold of a slider or a pan knob while holding the Ctrl
As it is now, the position of the volume slider represents the volume at the current time. The node automation is cc7 type, reflecting the volume. Sounds like you would like the node automation to be independant of the volume automation (cc7). Currently they are the same, and that the node automation represents the position of the volume slider throughout the song.
Adding additional types of automation (like a cc11 volume envelope type) one would likely do what you are wanting. So that the output at any time is a combination of the two.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,224
Posts802,072
Members40,071
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean