|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294 |
I personally love all styles of music. Right now though, I am working at getting an industry processed type of sound. I am trying to focus on this and need help. Here is an example of what I am reaching for... Toms and Hihat I like the fullness of the toms. I currently have slate drums to play with, and am curious what kinds of effects, eq, chain, (and rough settings), etc, do I need to be using to head in this direction? Next would be the hi hat and ride. The hi hat has a nice slushy sound, not so mechanically tight sounding. Yet, it sits in the mix very nicely. The ride has a clear pretty sound to it (especially with the accents). How? That is my question  I really don't know where to start or what to change. If I put reverb on, I don't know what to roll off or enhance, as an example. I am at a total loss with all of this, but am excited to learn. I would like to start by perfecting one type of sound that I can use. Then I can work from there. I am really looking forward to the responses! I am also hoping to avoid the whole "I detest Luke Bryan / That's not country music" debate I'm just looking to try and better myself and my writing in a direction I would personally like to go. Thanks!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,969
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,969 |
It all depends... on lots of things. First, there's no easy, simple answer to this, such as ... do this and waaaa laaaa......and especially in a single post in a forum thread. But this is my 2 cents worth in the first post..... I find it easier to work in Sonar on my final mixing. This lets me add and delete the compressors and EQ and reverbs that I need to use on tracks. I find that some of the Real Drum tracks in BB/RB can be "seasoned" nicely using a few plugs that I have customized inside my DAW. I don't have Slate... but I do have a few other drum synths and several of them allow multiple, assignable, track outputs. Having each part of the kit in it's own track or even being able to group things such as "toms" into one output channel and "cymbals" into another tend to make tweeking the kit to perfection much much easier than say using a Real Band real drum track where everything in the kit is on one stereo track. I tend to be lazy and not really as nitpicking when it comes to drums so I opt for the easy path of whatever real band can deliver in most cases. The best way to learn how to get that "BIG KIT" sound is to play around with the drums in SOLO mode and do that in a DAW that allows easy insert and removal of plugs. Be sure the speakers are capable of letting you hear what's going on with the mix. Then it's a matter of playing around with the compressors, EQ's that you have in your tool box. and the reverb. Since drums in a kit tend to span the entire frequency range from the low freq thump of the kick to the high end of the cymbals, using a multi-band compressor is real handy for the compression.... you don't necessarily want to compress the cymbals at the same rate as the kick.... multiband's let you control the freq bands separately. Same with EQ... if everything is ion one track, use a multi-band point EQ... similar to a graphic. Para-Q works fine on individual drums, but using them on the whole kit is a bit of a stretch IMHO. Don't overcompress the drums. Perhaps the kick needs heavier compression than the rest, but avoid too much compression or you suck the life and dynamics out of the kit. If you're new to mixing and need a good place to start, download this and keep it on your computer after you read it. https://www.izotope.com/en/support/support-resources/guides/Get the first 2 guides. Mixing & mastering It's specific to the products they sell BUT.... great information that crosses the lines to ALL mixing and mastering. Ask specific questions as you begin to understand more.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,664
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,664 |
A video link from another posting had an interesting idea that I've played with and like.
Start with a two channel (stereo) drum track such as a RealDrums track.
Duplicate the drum track three times. Each of the three tracks will emphasise one drum instrument such as kick, snare, high-hat or cymbal by concentrating on the sound of that one instrument. Then the original track and the three emphasised tracks can be mixed together to create the sound you want. You can also add an effect like reverb or delay to change the sound of one drum instrument if desired.
Mute all tracks but one. Play the unmuted track through a parametric equaliser. Set the parametric equaliser for high q (very narrow bandwidth) then raise the gain. Change the frequency around until you find the center frequency of one instrument such as the kick drum. Use high and low cut filters to get rid of the frequencies outside the range of the instrument. Add gain and effect to get that instrument (kick drum in my description) to sound like you want it.
Repeat with tracks two (snare perhaps) and three (cymbals maybe).
If the original drum track has more instruments like conga, toms or cowbell (gotta' have that cowbell) then you can add more duplicate tracks to concentrate on each instrument as desired.
You need to make sure unwanted frequencies are minimzed in each duplicate track or the sound quickly turns muddy or indistinct.
Duplicate tracks opens up a lot of mixing options. You can change the emphasis each verse by altering the sub mix. You can apply effects to one instument.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1125e) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294 |
Thanks for the responses. I do understand the need to separate out the tracks for processing (unless working with loops of course).
The problem I'm having is I really have NO idea what effects will get me closer to the sound I'm looking for. I don't know how to NOT muddy up a mix, or make something stand out.
Is my best bet to just start with something, post it, and get advice on that?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294 |
Mute all tracks but one. Play the unmuted track through a parametric equaliser. Set the parametric equaliser for high q (very narrow bandwidth) then raise the gain. Change the frequency around until you find the center frequency of one instrument such as the kick drum. Use high and low cut filters to get rid of the frequencies outside the range of the instrument. Add gain and effect to get that instrument (kick drum in my description) to sound like you want it.
Repeat with tracks two (snare perhaps) and three (cymbals maybe).
If the original drum track has more instruments like conga, toms or cowbell (gotta' have that cowbell) then you can add more duplicate tracks to concentrate on each instrument as desired.
You need to make sure unwanted frequencies are minimzed in each duplicate track or the sound quickly turns muddy or indistinct.
This says A LOT. Thanks! So this is where muddy-ness happens? This will sound stupid, but it's where I'm at, how do you do this with effects? I'm guessing that is also where the mud comes from?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294 |
In the track I offered as an example, to me it sounds like there is a lot of compression going on. But here is the thing, I don't KNOW that. I think that's what it is, but really have no clue. I'm excited to find out though!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,969
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,969 |
The problem I'm having is I really have NO idea what effects will get me closer to the sound I'm looking for. I don't know how to NOT muddy up a mix, or make something stand out. There are 3 main EQ's that are used for the majority of the music you hear. 1. Compression 2. EQ 3. Reverb Those 3 are the primary ones that you should learn to use. A fourth, the Limiter, can also be used to advantage in some places. However, if you learn the 3, you can do almost everything you need with them. Personally, I go light on compression, use EQ judiciously, reverb as needed and rarely use a limiter. Your tracks, straight up raw, should be fairly close to the sound you want before you apply any FX to them. If they are not, you should re-examine what you're doing in the recording process, so that they are closer to the desired end result, up front. The muddiness in a mix comes from having too many things in the same frequency range and that range tends to be the lower mids into the low range. EQ is your friend here. Using high pass filtering can solve lots of problems in this range.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 03/22/15 01:18 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,083
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,083 |
Lots of great advice on here so far and here's a couple of links to help as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idVWobNeGtU Lots of great mixing tutorial videos from Recording Revolution on youtube or go to http://www.recordingrevolution.com You can see and hear what he's doing as he explains how to do it. Then try it in whatever DAW and effects you are using. Also Coursera has a FREE music production course from Berklee which covers all the basics. Hope that helps Josie
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,969
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,969 |
And, if it hasn't been mentioned, use a reference song for comparison as you work along, i.e., one that has the drum sound you wish to emulate.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,294 |
And, if it hasn't been mentioned, use a reference song for comparison as you work along, i.e., one that has the drum sound you wish to emulate. Agreed. It's the only way to know that I am so far away from the sound I want...not close! Ha! J/k GREAT advice!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693 |
This hasn't been mentioned so I'll ask. What's the source recording of the drum track you're working with? I'm mostly used to me doing a live recording of a live drummer so then the mic's and placement are critical and I can go on and on about that but if you're working with prerecorded drums of any sort including midi drums using a synth, then that's a whole other thing.
With a prerecorded track and that can be audio loops, Real Drums or samples in a synth, try something simple like plugging in a basic 10 band EQ as in PG Music's 10 band EQ and use that to isolate the different parts of the kit. Cymbals are hiding around 5-8K, the kick is around 100-500K or so, the snare is in the middle and so on. If it's muddy lower those low freq's a bit. How much is a bit? Who knows, just experiment until you find out. EQ alone can get you a long way.
Lots of folks here have expensive DAWS like Sonar or Pro Tools and use expensive third party plugins like OZONE, T-Racks etc but don't overlook the PGM audio plugs. They were written by some of the same software sound designers who worked on those expensive mixing suites. The PG plugs have a bland appearance, no cool Starship Enterprise lightshow but behind those visuals lies the exact same software and the PG stuff can produce very good results.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics84,133
Posts765,977
Members39,297
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean