PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Songwriting 3 Concepts That Made Me A Better Songwriter - Signals Music Studio

Good info here. It is like I tell my students, learn music theory but don't let it get in the way of your playing. In other words play from your heart.

Music theory will give you more tools to work with but use those tools creatively. For example you know how to form a major scale but playing a major scale as your lead is just plain wrong. YMMV

I agree with Mario that there is some good info here. I can see this being a good video for beginners.

I see where Mario's coming from on this. A couple of the lessons posted recently give the impression that the comp chord dictates the melody and that the melody is restricted to the key being played. In other words, when the bar is a CMaj, then the melody can be found in the CMaj scale. It doesn't work that way. So many of the You Tube teachers stress patterns, as opposed to notes.
Here is an example from one of the lead sheets I posted today. Please don't be too critical, this is for in-house use:
Just As I Am Lead Sheet Part One
Look at the first four bars. What's that F note doing in bar #2? (It is part of a two note slur, if that's the term) Or the F Note in bar three? There's no F note in the G Scale. This could go on.Here's Page Two FYI:
JAIA Pt Two

Mario,

I just play exactly what I hear in my head and it always sounds great.

Am I missing something?

The "melody" could be found in the chords underlying it. If you are singing/playing a phrase over a C Major chord, (in the key of C) the natural melody would contain the notes in that diatonic chord. Moving to another diatonic chord in the scale would change the notes in a "natural" melodic phrase. This assumes you are drawing out the melody from the progression and without giving all credence to Key.

I think what Mario was talking about is that Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do does not a melody make (except when it does).

In reality, a melody "found" this way is not bound to the notes contained in the diatonic chord. To be "natural" it would contain only notes in the scale. The notes of the melody MAY be said, instead, to form a new chord--it doesn't so much matter if the chording instrument is playing a C maj...the addition of another note may change the chord. It depends on the note.

"Naturally" you limit those "added" notes to a note found in the C scale, but that's not "necessary" either. That's why there are "accidentals" in sheet music.

In the end, what matters is 1. Is it musical. 2. Is it "pleasing". 3. If it's not musical and/or pleasing, is it "not" for a musical reason.

Theory exists to explain what you did. Different "theorists" may even have different ways of explaining what you did. Knowing some theory helps to make more informed choices. Knowing the diatonic chords in a given key (even though I still have to look up most of them) makes "writing" SOOOO much easier than guessing what chord might come next. But it doesn't limit my chord choices. Instead, it even broadens them when I know a bit more about borrowed chords and other modes and scales.

Of course, there's another way "melody" may be found...and that's all by itself. Then the choices of any chordal or line harmonies are maybe even more informed by a knowledge of theory. Writing a progression to underpin an existing melody is a somewhat different animal than sussing out a melody from a chord progression. Most of my "stuff" does some of both.

For the record...if you know how to make three chords on a guitar, you already know a little "theory". Knowing a little more is akin to knowing a few more than three chords. Nobody should let "theory" scare them, no matter where they are. I'm barely conversant in it and have to look up the specifics of most of what little I am a bit familiar with in general. BIAB is a wonderful tool to learn on (though I still wish some common music-theory aides were built into the program). Some of my latest stuff started with "experiments" in theory I picked-up, and the guy who makes these videos has been my primary "teacher". Kick him a buck a month if you can't afford more.

I think what you mean is that there is no F note in a G chord. The song here is in the key of C. I think "they" refer to this as a passing tone, but I am probably wrong about this. There is a F note in the C major scale, however, so it is in the "key" of C.

The same thing happened in the lead-in bar with a D note. Not present in a C chord, but present in a C major scale.

Musical. Pleasing.

(I misspoke in an earlier post and will change it now).

Thanks for the comments and clarifications on what I posted. I'm neither the musician nor teacher some of the others on this forum are. My comment stems from watching the lead guitar teachers on line who seem to suggest that a chords, keys, and scales somehow need to match to sound good.
Example, the first bar of "A Closer Walk With Thee" is "I am weak..." In Cmaj, the notes are G - G# - A with a CMaj comp.
Where did I go wrong?

NO you are not missing anything. My point was learning theory is important to know WHAT you are playing. For instance you have a C Maj7 chord and you play a G, G#,A, B lead line. This sound great so you leave it. With theory you can analyze the lead line and know that the G# and A are passing tones. The G and B are in the C Maj7 chord.

One can play great music without knowing theory or reading music. But learning music can expand your horizons. Knowing how chords are constructed and what scales go with what chords will help when composing and/or improvising.

Actually David you made my point. Play from the heart, or head, and if it sounds good it is good.

Ed, here's the way I understand it.

KEY is not a lock box. KEY relates to the "scale", but other notes (not in the scale) can exist in a piece that has been "designated" to be in the key of X. In sheet music, those would be indicated with either a #, a b, or a "natural" symbol by the note (not at the beginning of the clefs).

Technically, in sheet music, you could "write" a piece with all the notes of a G major scale, but "call it" in C major. Nothing changes except the sheet music looks wonky, and other musicians will have a hard time understanding your "explanation".

Diatonic chords are the chords based on (having the root note of/built off of) the notes in a scale. Every note in the triad is in the "key/scale". In Cmaj--C D E F G A B. Those chords will always follow the same pattern (Cmaj, Dm, Em, Fmaj, Gmaj, Am, and Bdim). Her's where the Roman Numerals and Nashville System come in handy. The seven diatonic chords in a natural Minor key follow a different "pattern", though they are also based off the root note in the minor scale. There is a reason for this, but all I know is that it works that way. Other "rules" for this pattern exist for other scales and modes.

You can't go wrong if all your chords are Diatonic to whatever scale/key you're writing in. But you may get tired of writing every song that way. Because you are not limited to diatonic chords. Same with a melody. You can't go wrong if all the notes of your melody are in the key/scale. But they all don't have to be.

I've seen enough of this guy's videos (dozens of them, by now) to believe I understand where some of your confusion comes from. He may say something like "that chord doesn't belong in the Key"...but then he goes on to explain how the chord you chose actually does fit. Maybe it's a brief key change. Maybe it's "modal interchange" or a borrowed chord. There's nothing wrong with the chord (if you like it). That info may be helpful to a lead player as well. All it is is a way to "describe" what you did, not a box to get locked into.

The "theory" is only a means by which you can make informed choices if you know what those choices are. Or you can just play the dang thing and let other people figure out what you did. If it sounds good, it is good.

Let's take all this to BIAB. YES, it's good to know what "key" you are writing in. It's very important if you want to read or print out sheet music. It's very important if you want to know what the diatonic chords are for that key. There are even some RT's that apparently more-or-less ignore the chords and just play notes in the key/scale you entered. I've found it helps in other ways as well. If you don't care about any of those things, don't worry about it, just enter your chords and have fun.

It's not important what "key" you are writing in for every chord choice, even if you know what it is. Follow your heart, head, and ear.

Interesting video...
Enjoyed it.

Well stated, Tangmo. Again, I'm reading the majority of You Tube guitar teachers as following a certain trend in the musical tastes of the students, the kind of musicians they aspire to be. In our time, blues and rock, closely related, are the forms guitar students want to play. I don't really understand blues soloing, so can only assume these guys know what they are talking about. Blues guitar is not usually associated with traditional melody, more rhythm. I like Rod Stewart. He tends to bridge the gap.
My point is, people who follow the on line teaching ought to know they are being directed to a style. And, true enough, nothing compares with the heart felt feeling of the blues.

I don't know enough about blues either. I've hung out on-line with a number of very good blues musicians and have picked up (from them and elsewhere) a few "tips" and shortcuts for writing "blues". They may have been exaggerating, but they've told me there are no "wrong" notes playing blues.

From "theory" though I am aware that there are blues scales that are not Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do. And more than one of them. How those chords get built is beyond my knowledge. So is how they relate to "key". I've just been told to use a lot of Dominant 7ths and concentrate on the I, IV, and V. That's probably blues cheat-sheet for beginners. But when "they" told me this, I didn't know what they were talking about (except for the 7th chords).

An interesting share Mike. I am always trying to get my head around theory to help me write something a little more interesting than “3 chords and the truth”...