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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2020
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I have been trying to find an All-In-One application/workflow that allows me to:
1) Take an existing music file (MP3, WAV, Mp4, etc.) that has all lyrics, instruments, drums, bass, etc. and
2) Decompose it into each "STEM" or instrument, vocals, etc.
3) Create a Chord File with tempo, time signature, key, and lyrics
4) Allows me to modify the style with BIAB
5) Create a backing track with lyrics (minus the instrument I play) and chords
6) Add a click track
7) Store file as MP3/WAV with metadata that has the full fields you would find for MP3 meta data
And do this all within one application, or with an easy workflow that let's the computer do the work, not me!
My goal is to go to a gig with my playlist of songs (on an iPAD or computer) that have been created, hopefully using BIAB (only) and sound like the original (except with my selected Styles), but the lead (melody or rhythms) played and sung by me.
I think a reasonable time to create this per song should be between 15 to 30 min max.
Please advise.
Thanks, DJLu
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15 - 30 minutes is a little unrealistic. and as for splitting an mp3 into different instruments that's not possible in BIAB and RB as far as i know - or indded in any program the way you describe. try this post for a way of splitting audio tracks https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=605070#Post605070but the results may not be of the quality you want to use as backing tracks for a live performance. this thread shows you how to add tracks to an imported mp3 https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=629469#Post629469but that is just a solo performance needing added backing tracks. maybe the best way forward is high quality midi tracks which you can easily import and split the instruments in RealBand. here's a thread on high quality midis. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=631081&gonew=1#UNREADget a high quality midi import it into RB so the instruments appear on separate tracks. mute the instrument you play and mute the melody if you are going to sing it. add realtracks if you like. export to a wav file, open in audacity and then export as an mp3 (that's how i get metadata to appear on the file - i'm not sure how it can be done in simple mp3 export from RB). alternatively, you can open the mp3 in BIAB and detect the chords and tempo. then you can vary the style in BIAB but as far as i know you can't split the instruments as you want from the mp3. you'll have the mp3 as the audio track and BIAB tracks - midi or Real will sound strange if played alongside the original mix. and please be aware that if you use midi as i suggest you will need a good quality soft synth or the sound will not be good enough for backing tracks. BIAB and RB are great programs but they can't circumnavigate the physics of audio recording so for backing tracks why not stick to commercial high quality midis on which you can mute tracks as you like and change keys if necessary.
Last edited by Bob Calver; 12/19/20 12:30 PM.
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I have been trying to find an All-In-One application/workflow that allows me to:
1) Take an existing music file (MP3, WAV, Mp4, etc.) that has all lyrics, instruments, drums, bass, etc. and
2) Decompose it into each "STEM" or instrument, vocals, etc.
3) Create a Chord File with tempo, time signature, key, and lyrics
4) Allows me to modify the style with BIAB
5) Create a backing track with lyrics (minus the instrument I play) and chords
6) Add a click track
7) Store file as MP3/WAV with metadata that has the full fields you would find for MP3 meta data
And do this all within one application, or with an easy workflow that let's the computer do the work, not me!
My goal is to go to a gig with my playlist of songs (on an iPAD or computer) that have been created, hopefully using BIAB (only) and sound like the original (except with my selected Styles), but the lead (melody or rhythms) played and sung by me.
I think a reasonable time to create this per song should be between 15 to 30 min max.
Please advise.
Thanks, DJLu A good way to think of this is like a cake. Once you mix it and bake it (existing music track) it is not very easy to extract the eggs, flour, etc. (individual stems)! And 15-30 minutes doesn't sound like enough time even if you find a magic software that can split everything cleanly into stems.
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Forum member Henry Clarke has a YouTube channel that he presents BIAB tutorials how he uses BIAB to create backing tracks from audio files and midi files. You may enjoy looking at those and get a few pointers.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I suggest 3 days and then it often won't sound that much like the original - unless you rebuild them completely in midi. A much better idea would be to buy professional copy songs with the minus 1 for your instrument and voice. I think they're a few $US each - especially if bulk bought. Then work on your presentation.
This concept is the 'Holy Grail' of BIAB. I prefer to think of BIAB as a great tool to produce songs 'in the style of...' or originals and then go perform them in your own spectacular way.
Anyway, most of the public don't care / won't notice how close the copy is especially if alcohol is added. People just want to have fun and be the centre of attention. You'll get more loyal fans by knowing their names and letting them come up and wreck their favourite song live...
Thoughts others.
Last edited by lambada; 12/19/20 08:11 PM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I have been trying to find an All-In-One application/workflow that allows me to:
1) Take an existing music file (MP3, WAV, Mp4, etc.) that has all lyrics, instruments, drums, bass, etc. and
2) Decompose it into each "STEM" or instrument, vocals, etc.
3) Create a Chord File with tempo, time signature, key, and lyrics
4) Allows me to modify the style with BIAB
5) Create a backing track with lyrics (minus the instrument I play) and chords
6) Add a click track
7) Store file as MP3/WAV with metadata that has the full fields you would find for MP3 meta data
And do this all within one application, or with an easy workflow that let's the computer do the work, not me!
My goal is to go to a gig with my playlist of songs (on an iPAD or computer) that have been created, hopefully using BIAB (only) and sound like the original (except with my selected Styles), but the lead (melody or rhythms) played and sung by me.
I think a reasonable time to create this per song should be between 15 to 30 min max.
Please advise.
Thanks, DJLu What you are proposing is possible, but not with audio files. Find a good MIDI version of the song(s) you want to do; there are many good free and ones for purchase out there. Bring them into your DAW, RB, or BiaB. Assign a MIDI sound source to each track. Note there are better sounds out there than in BiaB's GM. Some of the free Soundfonts (SF2) are better. Delete or mute the tracks that you want to do and save as an audio file. With everything you need on hand the total time would be around 15-30 minutes. I know as I have been there and done that. YMMV.
Last edited by MarioD; 12/20/20 06:16 AM.
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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+1 to lambadas comments.
As far as I know there is no software that will do what you want in 15-30 minutes. I know there are some out there selling some of that capability. My experience using some of it has been underwhelming. Interesting technology, but I'm not taking those tracks out on a gig.
I play instrumental tunes over backing tracks using a guitar, an ipad and a small pa. 95% of the tracks I created using BIAB and a DAW.
Truthfully, note for note is not for me.
I don't care much for purchased backing tracks or stems. I feel I can do better using biab in my workflow. I don't have much experience yet with midi, purchased or free.
BIAB affords you a lot of power to develop arrangements that fit you. Its not a perfect tool but it will help get you out and gigging with a solid "band" behind you. Assuming we get to gig again.
For me a new track simple 4 part track takes a good 4-5 hours to be ready for audition live at a club. Sometimes it takes a day, sometimes more. Lots of decisions need making. Your ideas don't always pan out first attempt. I suggest you start simple with easy song forms, changes and rhythms. Learn the tool a bit before you tackle something tough. After you make them, you have to practice them regularly. That adds to the workload.
Good Luck.
biab2023(Mac)
Logic Pro X
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Thanks for your response. I will research those sites you mentioned. I have long looked for "high quality MIDIs" as you described, but these are hard to come by. I was hoping to use BIAB to dissect an existing MP3 and create the separate tracks like you mentioned so that I can manipulate these and add the styles. The big issue is that ACW is very time consuming to find the chords since you have to create the timing reference for each measure. My 30 minute timeframe is based on actual time spent using Ableton Live 10 where I downloaded a KAR file and produced a backing track in similar fashion to what you described. However, I find some real value in BIAB if I would be able to do the same, but change the styles in real time. What would be really good is for this forum or similar website to actually create the BIAB song files for all popular music the same way that the MIDI libraries exist everywhere. If you take a look at iREALPro forum ( https://irealb.com/forums/), they have actually done this for the iRealPro app. It works great, and is very simple to use. The problem is that it uses the MIDI styles and not the real styles like BIAB. So, maybe this forum can fill that gap! Let all forum users upload their BIAB songs to this forum and share with everyone. These can be input into the Song Picker in BIAB. Maybe this exists and I don't know about it. Any thoughts?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Thanks for your response. I will research those sites you mentioned. I have long looked for "high quality MIDIs" as you described, but these are hard to come by. I was hoping to use BIAB to dissect an existing MP3 and create the separate tracks like you mentioned so that I can manipulate these and add the styles. The big issue is that ACW is very time consuming to find the chords since you have to create the timing reference for each measure.
My 30 minute timeframe is based on actual time spent using Ableton Live 10 where I downloaded a KAR file and produced a backing track in similar fashion to what you described. However, I find some real value in BIAB if I would be able to do the same, but change the styles in real time. What would be really good is for this forum or similar website to actually create the BIAB song files for all popular music the same way that the MIDI libraries exist everywhere. If you take a look at iREALPro forum ( https://irealb.com/forums/), they have actually done this for the iRealPro app. It works great, and is very simple to use. The problem is that it uses the MIDI styles and not the real styles like BIAB. So, maybe this forum can fill that gap! Let all forum users upload their BIAB songs to this forum and share with everyone. These can be input into the Song Picker in BIAB. Maybe this exists and I don't know about it.
Any thoughts?
My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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The site Karaoke Version is pretty good place to get kind of what you are looking for. You can choose to customize the MP3 backing track exactly as you want it. You can even adjust the key within limits. I have used it once or twice and the results were what I was expecting and at a cost of 2 to 3 dollars per file, it is not too expensive. visit the site, pick a song, choose if you want guitar backing tracks, etc. you can experiment for free with a snippet of any song they have. Not exactly what you were talking about but could be a resource for you. Otherwise the Norton fake disks are good, midi styles will allow you to adjust as you see fit and create very good reasonable facsimiles of any song you wish.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Download the app to a mac, ipad, or Android tablet called Jamzone I use it a lot and it is very capable. https://www.jamzone.com/Thousands of song titles and the ability to add in an instrument channel to the mix. I Bluetooth it to my PA and connect my mike and guitar to the PA. You can turn off any instrument that you plan to play. each song file comes with a scratch lead vocal, and most have backing vocals as well a some pretty realistic instruments both tempo, and key are changeable.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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My 30 minute timeframe is based on actual time spent using Ableton Live 10 where I downloaded a KAR file and produced a backing track in similar fashion to what you described. However, I find some real value in BIAB if I would be able to do the same, but change the styles in real time. I'm curious which you find better for composing: Ableton or BIAB?
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you'll have to refer to your other post to see an answer
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Honestly, it sounds you want to take someone else's work and use it as your own, but you don't want to work very hard at it. So you're asking other people to donate the files they've created to you instead. I mean, seriously - what you're asking for it at the edge of what's technically possible. But on top of that, you want to happen in one easy workflow, and in fifteen minutes?
Last edited by dcuny; 12/26/20 09:36 PM.
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Don't underestimate the value of something like TCHelicon's tools for autotuen, audio harmonies, effects etc. I've got both the VoiceLive 2 and the VoiceLive 3Ext. I'm sure that eventually they'll be a 4 which will be mind blowing. Only been waiting 5 years!
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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<< I have been trying to find an All-In-One application/workflow that allows me to: 1) Take an existing music file (MP3, WAV, Mp4, etc.) that has all lyrics, instruments, drums, bass, etc. and 2) Decompose it into each "STEM" or instrument, vocals, etc. 3) Create a Chord File with tempo, time signature, key, and lyrics 4) Allows me to modify the style with BIAB 5) Create a backing track with lyrics (minus the instrument I play) and chords 6) Add a click track 7) Store file as MP3/WAV with metadata that has the full fields you would find for MP3 meta data And do this all within one application, or with an easy workflow that let's the computer do the work, not me! >> There's an easy workflow that completes this task but there's quite a bit of tedious user work and time involved as well. Meaning, the workflow is easy, straightforward and quite effective but the task itself is difficult. I've attached a video that's condensed steps one and two down to just over an hour for one song... Steps 3-7 can all be done using BIAB after steps one and two have been completed to prep an MP3 that will be used in BIAB. Mixing Masterclass with Michael Brauer
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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