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It's getting time to consider an upgrade to my computer (6 year old Dell P4 3.0GHz w/Windows XP Pro). I'm considering transitioning to a Mac. Anyone here switch from PC to Mac and care to share any thoughts, positive or negative? Anyone make the reverse transition?
My primary reason for considering the change (aside from the fact that the Macs look nice :-)) is that I'm really tired of all of the ongoing upkeep (antivirus, spyware, registry cleaners, etc.) and sometimes even the need for periodic reinstalls of Windows in order to keep the system running smoothly and to TRY to prevent the inevitable system errors and system slow down. That said, having gotten 6 plus years out of my current system and having it still run ok, if slow, I guess I can't complain too much.
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From what i have seen you still need antivirus, spyware and such on a Mac. I love some of the ideas behind the Mac system, but there is still a gap in the software world.
Here comes the bootcamp, parallels folks! Sure but it you run windows on an intel processor don't you kind of just have a PC? The only real advantage is you can reboot into MAc and do other things there.
With Win7 it seems the gap has closed enought to make it not really that big of an advantage, and with the better choices in software I will just stay PC.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
I love some of the ideas behind the Mac system, but there is still a gap in the software world.
With Win7 it seems the gap has closed enought to make it not really that big of an advantage, and with the better choices in software I will just stay PC.
Thanks for your response.
Can you give me some examples of the software gap? I know that the Windows version of BIAB is always a couple of steps ahead of the version for Macs, but what are the better choices that you are referring to? I thought most things were available cross platform.
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Put Linux on the old Dell for Internet and get a new Win7 for music. Don't allow it on the Internet. That's what I do. I love it.
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My DAW is an old XP machine i have had for years, it has my M-Audio card, 2 gigs of ramand no freakin internet. Plenty fast and smooth no issues. Then i have another machine with XP media center that was give to me and that one see the net and has the family e-mail accounts.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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LT,
I have been a long time pc user. But, around Mar. of this year I finally went to a Mac. The reason that I made the switch is because of all the times during a recording session that I had to reboot due to a lost interface connection (my pc and my Alesis board did not seem to like each other much) or a small glitch and the track would have to be punched in from where it stopped recording or totally redone. The straw that broke the camels back was when it took 10 takes to get one backup vocal recorded (which was not the singers fault). Also, I had issues with it not being able to process a lot of midi tracks at the same time in Cubase. I tried changing every setting, buffer and priority that you can imagine but nothing helped. Listed below are the specs of the pc that I was using.
- Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo Processor T9300 (2.50GHz)
- 4GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
- 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GS
- 640GB 7200RPM Scorpio Black SATA Dual Hard Drive (320GB x 2)
- Windows 7 Professional upgrade (64-bit)
As you see power was not the issue. The issues also happened when using Vista 32-bit I had just changed over to Win 7 at the first of 2010.
Since changing to a Mac I have had "0" issues. I do not run any virus software or have any protection. I use it for the internet and recording. I use BIAB 2010 for Macs and have had no problems. I have not tested everything in BIAB on the Mac but what I use it for has run without a flaw. I also use Cubase Studio 4 to mix and finalize all recordings. It works flawlessly as well. I have had no more issues with multiple midi tracks. Everything runs extremely smooth.
I may have told you more than you wanted to know but I wanted to let you know that I switched to Mac and never plan on going back.
Steve
Steve
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Steve, thanks for the information. That's very helpful and consistent with what I often hear from Mac users. I'm sure they aren't perfect, but they seem to get the job done. I have used PCs since before Windows and was convinced by a friend at that time not to buy a Mac because PCs had so much more flexibility. Maybe he was right, maybe not.
What I often hear from other PC users is that they have done this or that in order to get to a point where their computers operate like they want them to. Mac users don't seem to have to do anything to get their systems to operate for their purposes. They just buy them and plug them in.
For what it's worth, I don't even use my computer very much as a DAW, and if I do it's usually just a couple of audio tracks. I use BIAB, some transcribe software, stream lossless music to my stereo, do some photo editing, use some office software (unfortunately, my office uses PCs, so that's one issue I need to consider), use the internet, e-mail, etc., and what ever else I happen to feel like. Even if I take the DAW out of the equation completely and use the computer only for the other things, it still seems to get mucked up in short order and slows down. I could use my Dell as my DAW, but a Mac may still make sense as the "other" computer. But to be honest, I don't really see why I should need to use two computers. (minor rant over :-))
I'm not sure what I'm going to do just yet. There are a number of variables to consider. But I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input. Keep them coming.
By the way, which Mac did you get?
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What i mean by software gaps is that there are far more software packages for PC than Mac. PG for instance. BiaB for Mac is still not on par with BiaB for PC, PTPA and RB are not available for Mac, Sonar is not Mac, Cubase and Logic are, and garage band, but several others are not. Both platforms are very useable. But there is a lot that is not available on Mac, that PC has.
As far the Steve's take or should i say "retake", some have had that experience, but for the most part i do not hear that much of that. When it happens it is frustrating. If an interface loses conectivity then i do not beleive it is the PC fault, rather there is some glicth there that needed attention. I have been DAW recording for almost a decade not and have had almost no issues, that were realted to the PC, but mostly either a bad plugin or some pilot error. I bet there are 10 PC users recording to 1 Mac user. So you are going to hear more problems from them. Most of the people here are PC users, and I do nto hear to many bad stories, just some cool music being made. Now if you read the Mac forum, you hear more problems there. No the Macs fault, it is just that it is harder to port software to.
I bet that if the truth be told there are glitches in the Mac world as well. I have two friends that are Mac folks and both have had hard drive failures, and one had several other issues.
As far as the DAW issue if you do not record much what difference does it make. Get the mac and try it out. I for one think that one should have a separate computer as a DAW. I used one for everything for years, and that is where i found issue. Since i dedicated my older system to recording it is smooth as a babies behind!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Thanks again. Quote:
I bet that if the truth be told there are glitches in the Mac world as well. I have two friends that are Mac folks and both have had hard drive failures, and one had several other issues.
I'm sure that's true.
Quote:
As far as the DAW issue if you do not record much what difference does it make. Get the mac and try it out. I for one think that one should have a separate computer as a DAW. I used one for everything for years, and that is where i found issue. Since i dedicated my older system to recording it is smooth as a babies behind!
What software do you have installed on that dedicated machine?
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retake by any chance that pc you listed was a laptop correct ?? the prob with many cheap laptops is they need setting up properly for audio work. run this sometime on that pc. i suspect youll get red spikes. http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtmlreport back what you get. the KEY is buying the right pc to start with. but with respect the prob is most people dont do that. they often buy on price. if instead of getting that pc you had have looked at a pc built for proper audio work eg adkproaudio.com quad core laptop you prolly would have had a different experience. that laptop of yours ..are you useing a seperate hard drive from the OS drive ?? (i mean 2 physical hard drives..not one partitioned). if not sometimes probs can occur trying to do everything off the same drive as win resides on. gosd bless mate. LT. imho haveing worked in the puter industry for decades there are plusses n minuses to both platforms. i could point to loads of users includeing myself running pc studios with no probs. lets start with your budget ..what is it ?? if you got loads of buks.. get an i7 pc with loads of ram and two 7200 rpm drives with 32 mb cache. one drive for win OS and one for tracking. people love such systems. just google various recording forums. if youve got a few hundred buks or so.. amd quad core 620 with lots of ram again and same drives. i in fact like lots of things bout macs. but my concern is haveing to send out to applecare if i get a prob and thus my studio is down while i wait. plus not as much software variety. so i stay pc. i dont want to get into a mac/pc debate cos its been done too many times. i just dont think there is a magical nirvana platform that exists. there is no holy grail. any puter can develope probs. ive seen frustrated posts from mac users on forums also. and its the same reason i have to say often as on pc. largely incorrectly configured systems often. i'll give you the TRUTH mate. whichever platform.. if your unwilling to get stuck in and understand OS basics for example youll get probs. for example ive been called in to look at peoples systems who were swearing blind at their pc's..only to find they havent even bothered to learn basic windows housekeeping like copying a file or they are operating silly low levels of memory , or useing some junky hard drive. in summary many people blame the pc inappropriately imho. the simple fact is whatever one buys one must take time understanding the intricacies of ones system. some people i know , say to heck with that , n buy a standalone digital recorder n get a different set of probs. for example some couldnt be bothered witn learning the various features n menus. thus the TRUTH is , whatever the platform ya gotta take time to understand it. god bless mate.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Manning,
You make some good points. I would be the first to admit that I don't know as much about system maintenance as I should, but I do know more than the typical consumer. It's a full time job trying to keep up with what's going on and most people don't have the time or the inclination. Computers are complicated little devices, no matter how the manufacturers would like to dress them up as otherwise.
I too didn't ask the question to start a Mac/PC war as I know there are good arguments on both sides. I just wanted to hear of people's different experiences.
The biggest argument in favor of my remaining on the Windows platform is that I am familiar with it, having used Windows machines for many years. I also wouldn't have to replace my software (although I don't have a ton of it). I'm willing to spend the cash on an i7 quad core, etc. if that's what makes sense because I do tend to keep my systems for some time. I'm not a power user by any stretch (as I mentioned, I don't do much recording and my needs in that regard are simple anyway), but I do expect a lot from my computers in that I use them for a variety of different things, from music, to photography to home finances and internet. Maybe that's a mistake, but even if I had the money, I simply don't have the room for a dedicated music machine, a photo editing machine a server to stream music to my stereo and an internet/email machine.
I guess I'm simply looking for the system that will allow me to do what I want with the least amount of grief. What I find frustrating is feeling like I don't want to touch anything or make any changes (including adding any new programs) once the system is working OK for fear of some unintended consequence. Even system restore doesn't always work as it should.
As I said, I've had my current system for over 6 years (knock on wood) and I suspect if I were inclined to do a clean reinstall of Windows it would probably speed up again a good bit and maybe I would get some more life out of it. I may do this even if I am getting a new system. I guess I'm just not sure why such measures should be needed (it won't be the first time I've had to reinstall Windows because the system slowed down). I have been told (perhaps incorrectly) that the Mac OS is more robust and less prone to such slowdowns. Of course, newer programs will obviously tax an older system and maybe that's the larger part of the problem.
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LT, Macs are nice. Wouldn't own one, but they are nice, and if they will do what you want, and that's what you want, I say get one. I build my own computers, something you can't do with a Mac. I can upgrade and expand my system to meet my needs with a minimal expenditure. You can't do that on a Mac. Yes, you can change the video card, add more RAM, or another hard drive, but you can't select a new motherboard and CPU and toss it in there. Maybe that's a good thing, since all the parts are vetted by Apple, but personally, I like being able to configure my system with the parts I want in it, based on what I'm doing. Mac updates their OS's much more often than Microsoft does. Sometimes, a program will no longer run on the new OS because of the changes, so you'll have to either not upgrade, reinstall the old OS, or do without the program until the software manufacturer can update. For instance, with Band In A Box, PG Music makes most of their money from PC sales, so their concentration is on PC versions of the software. Macs come second, so while they are trying to maintain parity at the moment, you can bet the PC version gets updated first. If Apple were to make another major change like they did going from OS 9 to OS X, it is possibly you'll be out in the cold on many of your programs. I can't run programs on Windows 7 that were designed for Windows 95, but then again, I don't have any of those any more, either.  Manning, look at the specs on Steve's computer. I'll be very willing to bet large amounts of money that with the video card and two hard drives, he wasn't running a laptop. I will also be willing to wager some cash that a lot of his problems could be traced to the Alesis interface and the drivers for that. We'll never know on that regard for sure, but I would bet it was, especially if the Alesis was a Firewire connection. Apples do firewire audio better than PCs do. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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LT,
Regarding your comment on reinstalling Windows because the computer slows down. How often do you change the oil in your car, and have it serviced and lubricated? More importantly, why? Yes, I will agree that it's not quite the same as changing the Operating System on your computer, but it is a valid analogy. Things get gunked up, either in your engine, or on the disk and OS of your computer.
I didn't do a reinstall on XP for years, but I did do a reinstall of Windows 98SE on a yearly basis. I have Windows 7 on my computer now, and while programs themselves may crash, the OS is stable. Maybe in three years or so, I'll wipe the drive to get rid of all the crap, and reinstall it...or the next new OS, but I'm happy with this now.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
LT,
Regarding your comment on reinstalling Windows because the computer slows down. How often do you change the oil in your car, and have it serviced and lubricated? More importantly, why? Yes, I will agree that it's not quite the same as changing the Operating System on your computer, but it is a valid analogy. Things get gunked up, either in your engine, or on the disk and OS of your computer.
I didn't do a reinstall on XP for years, but I did do a reinstall of Windows 98SE on a yearly basis. I have Windows 7 on my computer now, and while programs themselves may crash, the OS is stable. Maybe in three years or so, I'll wipe the drive to get rid of all the crap, and reinstall it...or the next new OS, but I'm happy with this now.
Gary
Thanks, Gary, for both responses. Yes, you make a good point about Apple updating their OS more frequently. I also have some concern about Apple's proprietary nature -- the same things that may tend to make their systems somewhat more stable (i.e., having control over the software and hardware) also can cause frustration because it's not as open a platform.
I understand your analogy with the oil change and it has some validity. The question is, if you could buy a car that didn't require you to bring it in every so often to get the gunk out, would you buy that instead of the one that required more maintenance? Anyway, it's all a bit rhetorical, I guess. Neither system is perfect, and I have a list of pros and cons on both sides. In the end, I'll just need to make a choice and go with it.
It's always interesting and helpful to hear everyone's different opinions and experiences. Thanks again.
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I subscribe to Keyboard magazine and a few years ago they devoted a whole issue to this debate using 10 top Hollywood music producers. 5 had switched from PC to Mac and 5 from Mac to PC. Think about that for a second. 5 Mac users switched to PC's? Without going into a whole bunch of detail, bottom line both were considered equally good and equally bad. The only thing is these guys are the ultimate power users. Their machines are plugged into big expensive studios, they're doing projects on a strict deadline and putting their machines through stuff that you or I would never do so it may have no validity to you personally. Still, it was a real eye opener to me because of all the hype about a Mac being so much simpler, more stable, etc. According to those 5, not so. Not that PC's were so hot either, it's just they both had plusses and minuses. A lot of it had to do with the hardware/software they were using and how it integrated into what else they were doing in the studio.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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gary. re the nvidia/retakes system. http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-8600M-GS.3707.0.htmlthe chipset is used in laptops. i frankly dont have time to keep up with the zillions of different video/pc configs out there. whatever he has he should run dpc utility. his one line on the scorpio looked to me like he had one physical drive but partitioned. rather than 2 physical drives. i agree might be the alesis. mebe driver issue. LT. you know what you might try ?? to extend the life of your current system ?? assuming you dont need to run a zillion traks n plug ins etc. i suspect your running old drive technology with small cache in the drives. leave the OS on its current drive and run a test with a fresh new 80 buk 32mb cache 7200 rpm drive for recording and playback and see if that helps things. if your not into heavy resource useage real time synths n samplers etc etc, needing lotsa memoey.. n lots of real time fx on each trak this might help extend the life of your system. n the bonus is..if it doesnt help much you can always use the drive in any new pc build anyway. what concerns me bout the macs is here the mbp's start around 1300 buks with a now getting long in the tooth dual core processor.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Manning,
I totally agree with you that you have to build the right machine. I did fail to mention that before going to a laptop I was using a very nice Sony desktop with XP pro. I can not remember the specs at this time but I did have similar issues as with my laptop. When my laptop did not work as I had hoped I did a lot of research and found that one of the problems was the firewire chip set was wrong. I tried using a card with the correct chip set but it did not help any. My problem is that I never really had the right pc built but the Mac just works. I know that I paid a little more than I should and some of my friends discouraged me from switching for a couple of years but I am finally happy with a computer because it is finally doing what I want it to do and without any flaws.
Steve
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Manning, My apologies, you are correct. I lose. Steve, and you've hit upon my point. If you are happy running a Mac, then that's all that matters. I don't know if LT will or not, but he's got your input to guide him. Now, if we could just find some more Mac users to comment, we've had plenty of PC users. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Fortunately, I've got some time to think this through and as my current system is working, I'm not in a big rush. In fact, Im going to be rather busy for awhile and I may wait a couple of months or so before making a move so that I have some time to work out any kinks when I do get a new system.
A few things I just want to note. Regardless of whether I buy a PC or a Mac, I anticipate buying a desktop, so we are probably talking an iMac on the Mac side. Also, I want to emphasize that the non-music functions of the system will be equally important to me, so I don't want to make a decision solely on that.
One thing that was brought to home to me today is the issue of a learning curve. I don't know, for example, how different BIAB for Mac is from the WIndows version, but something came up that has required me to put together some lead sheets in various keys pretty quickly. It's not complicated, but it would have been frustrating if I didn't know how to use the program. So I need to factor in some learning time if I make a switch.
Yes, it would be nice to hear from a few more Mac converts (or ex-Mac users) if they are out there.
Thanks all. This is all extremely helpful in my decision making process.
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LT,
One more thing. I have not found any real learning curve from pc to mac in BIAB. I did find a small learning curve with the operating system itself. I had a friend that I stayed on the phone with for the first two weeks until I understood it. I have an iMac 27. I mainly got it because of the 1T 7200 rpm hard drive that came standard in it vs the 500 mg in the smaller iMac. I love the ability to open two or three programs and see them all at the same time. However, I have found that after I have been using that large of a screen for a while my neck begins to ache a little. Just something to consider.
Steve
Steve
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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