PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic memorizing songs - is it also your achiles heel to performing

Hi all,

I've always know that a big barrier for me that limits performance (and plain old 'fun' with music) is memorizing songs, chord progressions/music, lyrics, etc. so that I can play with confidence and enjoy the music myself as I play it - rather than constantly being worried about recalling the song parts properly.


Recently I came across an advertisement that resonated really well with me and presented the same idea - and of course, a paid training course that will help you overcome that problem (ad copied below) here:
https://playinthezone.com/memorise-music-reliably/

Now - before I spring for the money, I've learned that many 'experts' in all fields - what they do best is describe a problem very well, and then when it comes to solutions - the recommendations are nothing you haven't heard before.

So my questions to all of you:
1.) do you relate to the memorization problem described

2.) do you have any recommendations that go beyond "practice more" in terms of specifically how to practice/rehears so that you can remember a larger library of performance material more efficiently ?

3.) what do you think our friend might be selling in his course that is already common knowledge among our veteran PG forum musicians ?


To just head this off - please don't say "repetition" or "practice" - this goes without say. I'm looking for specific ways or strategies to structure the "repetition" or "practice" so that any individual would be able to do it more efficiently - that is, to remember and recall more music/lyrics, etc. more quickly than they would otherwise.


As always - TIA for all the generous knowledge all of you so generously share.

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Here's how musicians who 'need sheet music' are finally wowing listeners even if memorizing 'takes forever''.
After teaching thousands of musicians on all instruments, I’ve found that loads of people struggle with the same thing…
They work hard to memorize a piece. And at the end of the practice session they *finally* get to the point where they’re playing everything correctly.
They come back to it a few days later, and…
It’s gone.
And no matter how many times they go round this cycle it never really sticks in the long-term.
So they rarely perform from memory because they’re in constant fear of a fatal memory slip. Even with a piece they’ve been practising for months.
They get confused and frustrated... ‘How come I can remember it perfectly one day, but forget it the next?’
Here’s what’s going on…
Recent neuroscience breakthroughs reveal that the approaches which *seem* to give the best results during a practice session actually sabotage learning in the long-term.
While most people ignore the best method completely because it feels ineffective at the time… Even though it’s delivering memorization that sticks in the long-term.
Unfortunately, these new insights haven’t gone beyond academic circles yet.
So most people still memorize music based on the old, flawed understanding of how the brain works.
This is actually good news!
It shows that ANYONE has the potential to do so much better.
This is why I want to share the exact step-by-step process I teach my students which gets them playing flawlessly from memory.
It leverages the key neuroscience principles that you *must* follow to memorise music effectively. So you’re no longer fighting against your brain… but tapping into its full potential.
https://playinthezone.com/memorise-music-reliably/
This is why I created this on-demand, go at your own pace “Memorize Music Quickly & Reliably” course…
…that reveals in exact step-by-step detail how to:
1. Memorize pieces faster and more easily
2. Express yourself freely and be more ’musical’
3. Feel totally secure and confident performing from memory
4. Develop a stronger understanding of the music and internalise it more deeply
5. Get into the Zone more often and wow listeners with your playing
As a result, you'll feel like a REAL musician and ENJOY your playing more when you play from memory.
https://playinthezone.com/memorise-music-reliably/
My approach uses pathways that are hardwired into every human brain. That means ANYONE can do this – even if you think you ‘lack talent’, are a ‘slow learner’ or have struggled to memorize in the past.
And because the simple step-by-step process breaks everything into chunks it doesn’t matter if you’re short of time. You can make progress whenever you have a spare minute or two.
It applies to any instrument (including singers) and any style of music. Musicians at all levels have gone through the course and got outstanding results.
Normally new members of my “Memorise Music Quickly & Reliably” course pay $69.
...but right now I've got a Facebook-only special where you can join for just $34. (That’s over 50% off)
https://playinthezone.com/memorise-music-reliably/
If after joining the course you feel that it isn't for you...
...let me know within 30 days and I'll give you a full refund.
But I’m sure you’ll love it.
Because many students tell me their biggest regret is not doing this sooner.
It’s saved them countless hours of repeating pieces over and over (in the hope they’ll finally stick).
My method has opened up music for them in a way they’ve never experienced before.
So if you want to play effortlessly from memory so you can express yourself freely...
...then join "Memorise Music Quickly & Reliably" here:
https://playinthezone.com/memorise-music-reliably/
Musicians Who Need Sheet Music Wow Listeners Even If Memorizing Takes Forever
PLAYINTHEZONE.COM
Musicians Who Need Sheet Music Wow Listeners Even If Memorizing Takes Forever
There’s something seriously impressive about watching musicians perform effortlessly and confidently without any sheet music in front of them.

I think this is a great topic. I doub't there is a silver bullet to help memorize but I could be wrong.

I can relate to this for sure:

"Playing from memory releases your brain from the task of reading music. This literally frees up mental resources that you can use to connect to the music and to interact with other musicians instead."

For me the reading of music consists of chord sheets or tab (which I'm now learning). The few cover songs that I have memorized on the bass definately frees up my brain and allows me to really "get in the zone" and concentrate on the feel and groove; much more satisfying than reading but for me reading is important.

I'd be interested in what others say on this subject.

I too can relate well to that.

A couple of the guys I play with have views on this that I'll just state, because I still don't have the right recipe for me.

"The difference is that amateurs practice until they get it right, but professionals practice until they can't get it wrong". I think that's probably true, but I'm not sure it solves our problem.

In response to "how long did it take you to learn that [long and complex] song?", the reply was "I'd listened to it so many times and knew it so well that I only had to look at the music once and I could play it".

FWIW our jazz mentor is also keen that we "put away the music and just play", because reading the music, even a leadsheet, is a distraction.

I'm on a course at the moment that at present is focussing on the second above. "Don't yet touch your instrument; listen to as many versions of the song as you can find and maybe make a shortlist of favourite version, then actively listen to those; listen to the melody, to the drums, to the harmonies, to the rhythm. Then sing the song, even badly, partly just to prove to yourself that you know it. Only now pick up your instrument and start to play from what you can sing or along with your chosen version".

Now I've often wondered if I approach things from the "wrong end" and am starting to try this as an approach. I know not yet if it will work for me, but it makes sense. So often I hear something I like and I get the sheet music and try to learn it from that. But there are songs for which I've never seen the music and I can play them.

I'll be interested in how you or others find the course.

I read that big artists like McCartney and Springsteen use teleprompters for things like set lists, lyrics and chords. Dunno if they always did that or maybe they're just old now!

I sometimes have trouble remembering the words to my own songs. I use a teleprompter of sorts. That could be a Lap Top or a Tablet. I sometimes use sheet music. I tried to use my cell phone on a clip to the mic stand, but it was too small. Reading off a teleprompter has the downside of restricting my playing. It is much better to close my eyes and play and not think about anything but the sound.

If, for some reason, I am required to memorize a song, I find I need to both play and sing it even if I can not sing it. I also find if I write things out with a pen and paper, that is helpful.

Back years ago, when I played three or four nights a week every week, memorizing the songs came fairly easy.

Some bands know four or five hundred songs and can play them at will. I always had my share of trouble getting through a forty or fifty-song setlist.

Somehow you have to be able to play the songs. Some sort of "teleprompter" is the answer.

Also, it is not always necessary to learn cover songs note for note. Learn the signature licks, the hook, and the chorus if you are playing in a band. It gets more complex if you play alone.

Billy

I'm fortunate that I can play by ear (I can read music, but not very well). I can usually hear a song a couple of times and am able to play it. It's a blessing! I can remember songs that I heard in the sixties, and although I've never played them before, I can bumble my way through.

I'm a member of a local country music association and we meet once a month to play, sing & generally have fun.
The backing band is made up of whoever turns up on the day, and the members & guests are invited to get up & sing a couple of songs,
The only pre-requesite is they bring 3 copies of the chord charts of the songs they wish to perform.
Now, without sounding demoralising, most of the old country standards are only 3 or 4 chords, so not difficult, but I notice that the band, although they know the song very well, still keep there eyes on the chord charts.
Similarly, the performers have their words on a music stand, and their eyes are glued to them right throughout the song. They have maybe sung or played these songs a hundred times before, and they know them off by heart, but they still like the security of having the words/music in front of them.
They would be better off ignoring the words/music and interact with the audience instead.

Just my gripe.
I feel better now.

My perspective is a bit different.

I know a few thousand songs including shows and opera roles. If I learned something before April 2009, chances are very good that I still have it memorized. There are Broadway shows, operettas and operas that I can still conduct from memory.

Unfortunately, I had a major stroke that month that crippled my left side and have not been able to memorise a song since. I did not lose my ability to sight read on the few instruments I can play one-handed. Likewise, my abilities to sight-sing and conduct from a score are undiminished. I wish that I could say the same about my stamina.

I use a 12.9" iPad Pro for live performance. I can turn pages with my good foot freeing up my good arm for everything else.

In my experience, its all over the board... some can hear a tune once or twice and play it perfectly, some can play it 1,000 times and still need to look at a something written out. And for some its a combination of the two.

Then there are situations where playing in a band or combo you have to play a specific arrangement a specific way and its a bit different from what you've done in the past. Its a new or different arrangement. In that case, having the written part in front of you might be the best; even if only to remind you... look out! remember... changes HERE, HERE and HERE. You have to do your job and play what you are supposed to play the way you are supposed to play it. Looking at a piece of paper to do it does not matter at all.

Even a pro with decades of experience will flub lyrics from time to time. There's a very famous live recording of Ella Fitzgerald flubbing "Mack the Knife" (I think that's the tune)... totally forgetting the lyrics. She recovers wonderfully and its a terrific performance.

Memorizing a tune or lyrics? There's no magic answer or nifty trick I know of.

My own experience is to listen to the original song or someone's cover version over and over. Sing along with it, and viola, just like that it is memorized. I listened to Sinatra's Ultimate collection release so many times, when one song ends, I can hear in my mind the first notes of the next song before it starts. I don't think there is a secret method. It really is just repetition. The big acts are all using teleprompters. You just never know when you are going to forget a lyric so better to be safe than sorry. Most local people I see use iPad or some version of written music as a guide or reminder. Just like playing guitar instrumentals once it is in the muscle memory it becomes almost automatic. Then you can focus on the emotional side of it and improvisation etc.

I don't have a problem with the music and chords. I can count on one hand the number of times I screwed up a song by forgetting the chords over my live gigging musical career.

Lyrics however, presented more of an issue. Not always but often at the most inopportune time.
I had a choice to stand there like a blithering idiot or fake it. I've often made up words on the spot.

Another thing I started doing, especially with songs that were new to the set list was to write a prompt. When I was in the house band we had the same audience practically every weekend so new and current hits were required. Often, we had the music together but not always the words. So I would write the first line of each verse as a prompt. Sometimes it was just a key word. That was often sufficient to remember the full verse. I'd write it on the set list sheet in large enough print to see it on the page.

Just because you have the music on a stand, whether it's sheet music or just lyric sheets, doesn't mean you have to read it. I have done that. I just put a large 1...2....3....CH .... Next to the verses so I can glance quickly and find the correct verse. I always sang and performed from the subconscious and only reference the written prompt when I needed it.

I played in bands for years, nothing was written, we learned everything by ear, and it was all memorized. Without the music in front of us, there was no choice.

Then I started this duo with Mrs. Notes when I was 40 years old. We needed to work in a hurry, and I was making my own backing tracks (bass, drums, comp, etc.) so I did a lot of note-taking, bought sheet music, and made little word/chord charts for myself.

There was just not enough time to memorize close to 100 songs in a month or two and make the backing tracks.

So I brought charts to work. First in a loose-leaf binder and, as digital technology allowed, on a computer screen.

I find that if I read them, I never memorized them. But — after I've played them a bit, if I look at the first word, chord, and/or note, and then at the audience, I can play or sing the line.

As time progresses, the first word chord and/or note and I can play/sing the entire A or B section.

And after I've played the song enough times, I don't need to look at all anymore. Although, sometimes I have to look at the first word/chord/note to get started.

The songs that we don't play often, and songs that are new, require more eyes on the screen than ones we play a lot.

So for me, it's memorization without the work of memorizing. But then, I play music for a living, so I'm on the gig 10–20 times per month.

After all, if you can't practice on stage, where CAN you practice?

I don't know if this will work for you. Try playing something for a while, then simply look at the first word, chord and/or note and see if you can play 4 bars of the music or more.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Hey Joe, I may be able to come at this with a different possible solution but first, where are you playing these songs? Is this just you doing this or a band? Are backing tracks used at all? Just need a little more info

Hi Hear-to-Learn,

I am a bedroom musican playing on and off since 14 (I'm 57 now) - and I'm hoping to be able to do these songs in all 3 of the ways you mention - solo with an acoustic guitar, along with backing tracks, or with a band : )

Cool! I'm not saying this would be the answer you're looking for but would actually work for all three. Have you considered using a click track? Most people think of a click track as being a literal click track only but it can be SO much more than that.

Without going to much into right now, you can have your click track include ANYTHING you want. You can literally say something like "here comes the chorus. Chords are C, A, G. I'm gonna tell her..." Those would be what part of the song, the chords you will be using, and the first words to remind you. You can say "here come the three hits." You can even put extra instruments in that the audience never hears but can be ques or help you groove better.

Basic, surface response for now. I can expand if you would like me to.

Try this:

Phase 1
- Listen to the song a lot.. to the point you can go through one verse and the chorus in your head. Concentrate on the words and the melody.

Phase 2
- Write down the words to one verse and the chorus (yes, write them yourself on a piece of paper). Write the words real big so you can see them easily. Leave a big blank line in between the lines of lyrics.
- Over the words you wrote down, write the chords real big, over the word where the chord is played.. make a lead sheet.
- Go through the song real slow and play easy chords, simply voiced that you don't have to struggle to play, looking at the lead sheet you wrote and singing the verse and chorus in your head... always sing along in your head as you play. Don't worry about the tempo... play slow.
- Gradually bring the song to speed and while doing so you can play around with different voicings of the chords or different patterns (if you are finger picking). Also you can play around with passing or alternate chords (for example if the thing goes D7 (4 beats) to G, try D#7 (2 beats) to D7(2 beats) to G... or a D9 instead of D7... that kind of thing).

Some things will work, others won't. Throw away the things that don't work and keep the things that work. (If it sounds good to you then it works.)

Gradually stop looking at the lead sheet. You'll find you don't really need it after a while.

And always sing the verse and chorus in your head. If you stumble on a change or part, keep going, don't ever stop. Fix it on the next go around.

You may want to set up a simple backing track to help you get up to tempo. Whatever you do, do not let that become a crutch. If you find you are depending too much on the backing track... turn it off and get a metronome or tap your foot instead.

Phase 3
- When you get it to tempo and can play it the way you want to, play it a lot like that... until its second nature. Then play it slower or faster then again at the "right" tempo. Always sing the words in your head every time you play it.

When you can play it the way you want you are ready for a real backing track. By now you should have memorized one verse and the chorus lyrics. If you haven't then you haven't played the song enough times.

Phase 4
- Set up a good fun backing track. Make sure it has an intro and an ending. Practice to that (and sing the words in your head every time).
- Once you are really good at the song, change the tempo and/or the key and practice some more.
- Put a space for a solo for you and include a solo for a BiaB player in the backing track. Now you really have to listen when you play because you don't want to miss your solo and don't want to step on the BiaB "player's" solo.

If you can play it the way you want to in different keys and different tempos with and without a backing track and solos, you are ready for a band, a solo performance or a cold beverage and a congratulations... whichever you prefer.

Why different keys and tempos? Really knowing a piece is also having flexibility.
You may need to alter the key because your band's singer does not like the key you learned the song in or the keyboard player knows the song in a different key. You may need to alter the tempo for the similar reasons... maybe the singer thinks the song has more "expression and emotion" if its slower. Be flexible.

That's about it. Questions? Just ask. Otherwise, good luck and always have fun.

Thanks to all of you for your detailed, insightful concepts - some even 'out of the box' (especially the click track one lol), and some quite new to me. Some are things you think might be helpful - but you just never bothered to do. And unless you have an unusual talent - the amount of time and repetition it takes to memorize a good number of songs is much longer than anyone would like to admit to themselves....when the goal of the quantity of songs in your repertoire overtakes the joy you find in committing them to memory and practicing them (something that happens to this perfectionist all the time) - it's time to rethink the very reason you are playing. I'm at best a hobbyist that would like to be able to perform once in a while for friends and family or at a public bar or restaurant - I really should accept that and work on 5 or 10 songs instead of 30 or 40 - but hey, as popeye says "I am what I am..."

If I just take this thread, pull it apart, and list each item without duplicates - we'll have no less than 10 to 20 outstanding approaches. And of course, some will work better than others depending on the individual and their current musical experience.

For me - as others have mentioned, writing the first words of the verses down is as important as memorizing the verses, because I find it much easier to memorize a verse than to memorize what verse comes next. I actually have hand-written this out for my target repertoire songs of the Kinks, Simon and Garfunkel, Top Petty, Grateful Dead, the Eagles. If you might find this of any use - I'm happy to share it. I also memorize the progressions by number, which sometimes helps me - but for this to work for someone, they need to have really committed the major, minors, and the common mode sequences and be able to find the chords in that mode pretty easily. When that approach doesn't work for me - at least I'm reviewing the keys and chords within each.

Thanks again everybody.

This is an interesting thread but I notice there is an important concept that hasn't been mentioned . . . Quality.

I see:
I have memorized xyz number of songs
I know abc number of songs
I can play this or that song
I have learned this or that number of songs
Etc.

But what about the quality?

Some rhetorical questions:
How well can these songs be played with the aid of lines on a page vs what is memorized?
When we say any of the above are we saying we can play the songs perfect? What is perfection?
Can anyone play the same song back-to-back multiple times exactly the same? If you are reading this and are flesh and blood I doubt it. A machine, perhaps.

Who decides if perfection is reached; the player? The band? The audience? The marketplace? Your instrutor? No one?

I would say that at a minimum the song would need to be recorded and then analyzed by someone/something in order to judge the level of quality. We all may think we are better than we really are.

As a novice, I set the bar at "is it good enough for me"? [Sometimes not a very high bar].
If I'm playing to tab, and I miss a note or play an incorrect note, I will know it immediately, otherwise if the "feel" is "good" I claim good enough. If I wrote the instrumental, then I judge it by the feel.

But for any song played by anyone, could it be improved with say a little more swing? Or a little less swing? Or more push or less push, or more emotion in the vocals or less emotion? Or a different voice inflection?

This in part, is why I'm captivated by music; it's infinite and perhaps an unobtainable and shifting emotional goal in the clouds of our minds that one can only strive for but never obtain in the truest sense.

Good question.

The "who decides" is typically seen as:
If doing it for money... the marketplace
If doing a live performance... the audience
If doing it for a class ... the instructor

But those are situational measures. You can't please everyone. I think the only opinion of your playing that really counts for anything is your own opinion.

• I do it for the money: so I choose what I play by what will sell
• I do it for the audience: In addition to choosing what songs I will play, I choose when I play them to give the audience the best experience that I can
• I do it for the entertainment purchaser: If a commercial establishment, I want the customers to have a good time and come back again and again. If a private party, I want them to tell the host/hostess that they had a wonderful time.
• I do it for myself: I really enjoy playing music, I enjoy entertaining the audience, and I enjoy the dialog I have with the audience. It's the most fun I can have with my clothes on.

I gig for a living. It's both a business and a pleasure. So while one part of me is just getting lost in the music, in that place where there is no time, no place, no me—there is another part of me that is making sure I'm doing the right thing so I can gig again next week, and the week after that.

I don't do it for my instructor anymore, but I carry the lessons all my teachers generously gave me and when I can, pass them down to the next generation.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

That's because it's not an issue.

No two of us are alike. I never tried to memorise a song. Like sight-reading, it came naturally to me. If I had heard or read it and payed attention, it was in my head. Transposition, likewise, was never a problem. If playing a show, I watched the performance with one eye while looking at the conductor with the other—never the book as I had it memorized after the second or third rehearsal.

I didn't know it was a talent till others told me they couldn't do it—just how my brain worked. I never studied for tests in school nor kept a calendar.

Of course, I took it for granted till, one day, it was gone. I lost that ability completely along with the use of my left arm and leg. I don't miss my memorization skills that much though it pains me to keep a calendar. I can still sight-read anything and still get gigs. I really, really miss playing guitar and bass but there's not a thing I can do about that.

Oh well.

It's either all "quality" or none of it is. I vote for "all".