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OK, see, that is the problem with forums. Sometimes it is difficult to get someone's true demeanor from reading static text. Now when I read jazzmammal's post again, I see that my initial understanding of his demeanor might have been wrong. It is possible to read his post as if it has a sarcastic undertone (does it?), which is how I initially read it. If you were not being sarcastic, then sorry for my strong response, although I still stand by my point that you did not understand the original problem and immediately assumed I was clueless. One of my pet peeves is if someone tells me I am clueless while the reality is that they don't fully understand the real problem. I may not be a RB expert, but I have been working with MIDI/audio for many many years, in addition to developing software for a living and I think I can recognize a bug when I see one.
BB+RB 2014 (3)
Windows 8 Pro 64-Bit
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RealBand
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cool 
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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OP
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Quote:
cool
LOL, you were probably responding to my previous post... 
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RealBand
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Yep.
I appreciate your diligence in this. Forums can indeed be frustrating.
Thanks
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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I mean the attitude "go away".
We are a pretty friendly bunch here and not your typical forum. We are like family. Sometimes we disagree but always kiss and make up. Our intention is to help and we will all go the extra mile for you and anyone else. This is a small company and I think most of us here feel we are truly a part of it. Peter Gannon acts that way and makes us feel truly welcome. Don't come in swinging "cause we'll take your head off.
That said I'll look at your post and see what I come up with. I have close to 200 songs down in RB and as of yet have not noted those issues however I will look specifically at them.
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Looks like you 2 have it covered.
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RealBand
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OP
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Just want to add...
I think both RB and BiaB are pretty amazing products, and they do things that still amaze me. For instance the chord detection feature that I have used a few times. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have done some of my own DSP programming (including detecting the pitch of a singer in realtime), so I am aware of the complexities that must exist for something like detecting complete chords and timing info from a song. That is an amazing feat. And the RB generated tracks do sound really good too. I have a friend who is a pretty hardcore, oldschool guitar player and his jaw dropped when I played him a BiaB song (I used BiaB to work on a song idea before I started working on it in my main DAW).
But the reason for my initial post and its annoying undertone has to do with the fact that I just ended a very frustrating session with RB where I tried to do something but these bugs kept interfering. After I finally got close to what I wanted, I lost the RT due to the mentioned bugs earlier. I feel RB and BiaB has the potential to be truly awesome products if the bugs can be brought under control. Also I think most will agree the UI suffers from feature overload, inconsistencies, outdated concepts and years and years of adding features without doing any spring cleaning. Obviously the developers are really smart, judging by some of the powerful features you find throughout both programs (and often those features work really well, like the chord detection - diamonds in the rough if you will), but a complete UI rewrite is required. And maybe an updated development model where unit testing is added (or improved) to test some of these features more thoroughly to get the bug count down.
Also, once again apologies to jazzmammal if I misunderstood the tone of your post. The first time I read it, it really seemed to me that it was sarcastic and mocking me for being a "noob". That post can really be read in different ways.
BTW, I am more than happy to help with beta testing since for some odd reason I always seem to find obscure bugs in applications.
BTW 2, I also filed a bug report for the bar settings not shifting properly when deleting bars in RB.
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RealBand
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BitFlipper
please allow me to comment , i hope in a friendly way re the UI.
heres the issue. for me lots of ui's these days are too flashy imho.
some apps seem to use it as a marketing tool.
i'm more intersted in what lies underneath.
now..as you know software engineering, youll also know that
codeing for the pc with a slew of different configs out there is a challenge.
one user might have an old clunky ancient pc while another might
have a i7 with all the toys mate.
for example some people have said to me that the powertraks ui needs an update.
to which i reply...it was prolly designed to even run on old clunker pc's.
the other prob is prolly pg have a large user base thats used to the ui as it is.
so a learning curve might be involved in a redo.
there are those that might say..heck let the user do the ui n customise it anyway he/she sees fit..
but once again...in software engineering there is no free lunch.
to do such means more source code to handle this user flexibility.
ive sen first hand the results of doing such...more bloat is the result mate.
(ps i'm just a user, n got no links to pg cept as a past customer.) .
its the old software engineering catch 22 mate.
the software ballon pops out a problem bulge in one part of the balloon,
which the software engr solves only to be replaced by another prob in another part of the balloon.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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RealBand
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There are indeed a few buggy features, but as mentioned by Bitflipper there are features other software can't touch. The ACW chord and beat detection is awesome. The whole realtrack concept is exceptional. Little things like the scrollbar in the edit window can be annoying, but are happily traded off for the other features and results.
It would be nice if they could fix those little things. A couple things you'll hear about often here are the VSTi support for plugins requiring time code and the odd time support of the notation. These have been on the block for a while.
The GUI is indeed dated, soem new color and neater look is due. When I show people the program for the first time they of course comment on the aged look.
However when I show them a couple key features it becomes much less of a topic. Eye-candy traded off for features.
I truly hope you can be involved in testing, good eyes help catch these things before release. It wasn't too long ago we did testing on this version and all of us must have missed those things you found. We caught some stuff, but obviously missed some. Your programming background may help with suggested solutions.
They don't seem too anxious to upgrade the UI, so I'm not expecting that any time soon, but they have surprised us before. That ACW, when I first saw it just amazed me. Being able to get the chords and the tempo map just right was really cool. Then they threw in the coup when the realtracks were released; the reason for the ACW became apparent and its power was multiplied with what it could help you do. I'm glad you like the program overall. I turn to RB quite often, more than most other DAW software I own, and I do have a few.
Being a programmer though you know you should be saving often, always a good idea. I hate losing data I had worked on! So I can relate to your frustration when you posted.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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I just came back and read this thread and initially I was going to jump in and maybe say something but it's cool, you sound like a good guy so lets just chalk it up to typical internet forum misunderstandings.
I now have my own problem. I just tried to run Real Band to check your point about generating a midi part on top of an existing Real Track (I would have never thought of that one) and discovered my Ultra Pak hard drive won't work. I haven't used it for a while, been very busy. It runs, I can hear it spinning but it won't light up and my desktop system won't see it, my laptop won't see it and I even ran Easy Recovery Pro and it won't see it either. I didn't copy it to one of my other externals when I first got it like all good noob's should thinking I'll get to it later so how stupid is that? Oh yeah to add insult to injury, for years now I also had everything on my C drive all the downloads, all the beta's and everything else but a couple months ago I deleted it all because with all the new stuff I was running out of space on my C drive, the external hd was running fine, so now I can't run squat. Dead in the water. I distinctly remember thinking you're going to regret this, I haven't backed up the Ultra Pak yet but my system was really running slow and I discovered I only had like 4 gigs free space left and that's barely enough to run Windows. I had over 40 gigs of various beta's and RT's on my C drive, I was jammed up I had to complete a project so I deleted that stuff.
I contacted support, we'll figure something out. Some expert, eh? Man o man o man. How many times have we all said to each other to make backups immediately?
I'm a tax accountant in my day job and every year I have to put stuff off during the first quarter and when tax season is finally over and I can come up for air, I do all the housecleaning both literally and with my computers. I had it all planned to do the updates like the new RT pushes and holds I downloaded but haven't installed yet, copy the hard drive and all that kind of stuff. Oh well.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Have you tried double plug USB cable?
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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#2 I've tried and I get a message" can't generate a midi track on an audio track that has data."
# 3 can't reproduce
#1 can't reproduce. I originally had all of my songs in BIAB. When RB came out I loaded them into RB and all the bar settings stayed the same.
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Ah yes #3 just came back to me as I was doing a song. I've gotten so used to it I actually forgot that it MAY be a bug and not intended. Once you generate the MIDI part take note that the MIDI channel is 0 . That needs to be changed to something. You also need to select the synth and patch as well even though something is visible in the track view.
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Yes I tried using both usb plugs, I can hear it spinning but it won't light up.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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OP
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jazzmammal, yea it definitely sounds like the drive went bad. Did support say they had some sort of replacement program for such cases? Maybe you can get a replacement for the cost of the drive plus shipping, or something like that. Quote:
silvertones
#2 I've tried and I get a message" can't generate a midi track on an audio track that has data."
# 3 can't reproduce
#1 can't reproduce. I originally had all of my songs in BIAB. When RB came out I loaded them into RB and all the bar settings stayed the same.
For #2, make sure to first select the RT with a left-mouse click, then use a right-click to bring up the context menu for the MIDI track. Also, I think the RT type should match the MIDI type of track. For instance, left-click on the bass RT. Then right-click on an empty MIDI track and choose to generate the bass track. In my case, the RT will now be converted to a MIDI track with MIDI data.
For #3, I suspect what I was seeing was a symptom of #1. I have BiaB set to 0 count in bars, but RB was set to a bar offset of -2. Maybe this mismatch added to the problem (I think RB should account for differences in offsets when importing). Also, I believe I deleted a few bars in RB that was before some of the bars that contained bar settings (you modify bar settings by selecting a measure in the Chords view and pressing F5). Those bar settings were muting some instruments. So what happens is that the MIDI data is generated on the track, but areas that have been muted in the bar settings were muting the MIDI data (which is the expected behavior I guess). I would probably have caught this except that due to the fact that RB got the bar settings mixed up and applied it to the wrong bars. For instance, a bar setting might be set to mute the piano on bar 10, but internally RB applied this to bar 8 (for example) and at that point the MIDI notes will be muted/unmuted at the wrong locations. So what you see visually and what you hear doesn't match up.
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I just tried to repro #2 with a blank project and it is really easy to do:
1. Change track #1 to an Audio track.
2. Select, then right click track #1 and choose "Select and Generate RealTrack".
3. In the dialog, choose any bass style and click on Close. The audio is generated.
4. Left-click on track #1 to select it.
5. Right-click on track #2 and select "generate MIDI track -> Bass".
Notice that track #1 is now converted to a MIDI track and contains MIDI data.
6. Select Edit->Undo.
Notice that the name of track #1 is reverted back to the previous RT value, but the track is still a MIDI track and still contains the MIDI data (iow, the Undo is only done partially). The RT is now lost, and there is no way to get it back to its state prior to step #5.
Also notice that if you right click on a selected RT and choose "generate MIDI track", you will get a warning that it is an invalid operation. This warning is bypassed if the steps are followed above.
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OK I can replicate #2 the way you say however it's not something you should ever do except by accident. If I want a MIDI part on track 2 I would first select track 2. Now I'm not saying I agree with the way it works. Windows convention in other programs would automatically select the track whether it's a right click or an intentional left click thus preventing this accident. This is their choice and not a bug.
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Apprentice
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Quote:
I just tried to repro #2 with a blank project and it is really easy to do:
1. Change track #1 to an Audio track.
2. Select, then right click track #1 and choose "Select and Generate RealTrack".
3. In the dialog, choose any bass style and click on Close. The audio is generated.
4. Left-click on track #1 to select it.
5. Right-click on track #2 and select "generate MIDI track -> Bass".
Well, umm, programmers don't need warnings, they have experience in troubleshooting. Just kidding. 
It does indeed generate on the selected track. Which is what I would expect it to do.
And maybe it was intended that actions would be performed on selected tracks.
However, there is a simple solution, if you don't want to select another track.
After generating audio on your track 1 that is still selected, when you want to generate a midi track somewhere below, just right click to the right side of the new track where the track data is going to be, instead of on the left side where the selections are highlighted.
Now, when you right click, the new track for the midi will automatically be selected on the left, and a new midi track will generate with the audio track left in tact.
I haven't programmed in twenty or so years, but as an electronics technician I used logic to troubleshoot. 
Hope this helps some, until RealBand is perfect. Good luck. May the force be with you keywalker. LOL
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BlueTurbit, I really don't think this is the intended behavior. I would say the expected behavior should be exactly as if you selected and then right-clicked on a RT and selected generate MIDI data (you get a warning saying the operation is not allowed). Since RB prevents you from changing a RT (with data) into a MIDI track in all other cases, I would definitely see this as a bug. Especially since you cannot undo the change.
The UI designer/implementer has to assume that the user might be able to do things that they did not anticipate. If the user is able to get the program into an unintended state using a slightly different set of steps, then it should be considered a bug. I was bitten by this bug because I assumed RB followed the standard right-click convention and this coupled with the inability to undo made me lose the RT. As I said it is not a really big deal since it is possible to recreate the RT track on an unused track but you will lose edits and settings you made for the RT. Also the work-around is simple so I'll be careful not to make the same mistake again.
Oh and BlueTurbit, thanks for the tip about right-clicking on the data part of the track. I think it would be easier to change my habit to right-click on the data part of the track than it would be to change my habit to first left-click the track to select it (since this is the usual convention and I am just too conditioned to doing it that way).
BB+RB 2014 (3)
Windows 8 Pro 64-Bit
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1. Very little of a communication between humans is verbal. The vast majority is non -verbal thus the constant misunderstandings of the written word, forum or not.
2. The attack mentality however, comes across just fine.
A) I moved my computer, ie shutting it down, and changing floors. It's band in a box vista. I was a noob. Stuff changed. I had to spend 4 hours getting things back right. Error messages, midi not working, unbalanced sounds. I feel for the new users. The machines and soundcards are all different, we have different sound cards, mics, and mixers.
It would be easier to go the Mac only route, then you'd just starve to death on the sales but have almost no frustrations with changing hardware. A lot of good work is being done by many with this software, people I see out playing, but they never visit here, or lurk, and don't complain.
It is rare to see the pit bull in the room, but it's not hard to hear the 'tone' change from "I have these problems and they can't be my fault and I demand an immediate re-write, fix with this stupid buggy software, to "I won't put up with you pro-pgmusic idiots defending a piece of crap."
You catch the fish of your choice with the bait of your choice.
As for me I'm going back to wallowing in self pity for the wife is going to work and I'm home alone again and not feeling so hot...
Of course I demand the evangelicals fix this cancer with prayer, or else. Buggy religion. Can't even extend their own average life span, despite having a pipe lne direct to God.
At least my Mom has an hour a day she's devoting to something other than complaining about he 83 yr. old body shutting down....
I'm going to get a 1/2 coffee 1/2 boost with an ice cube and ruminate. Ruinate. Wish I ate.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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