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Win 7 ultimate, 64 bit, Core i7 12 gig RAM Focusrite Liquid56 sound, latest 'saffire' drivers.BIAB andRT2011
Everything works including BIAB (with forte) Cubase 5, standalone VSTs, B4, TruePianos, NI B4, Absynth BUT.... RealBand
it seems I am cursed. For some reason only known to PG they did not equip BIAB 2011 with the ability to host bog standard VSTS.
Consequence: I cant play my piano VST and record it with a track. Insteade I have to run a standalone independently from BIAB and do without recordnign anything
BUT! you say... use real band!"
My Saffire Asio does not work,even though this is a top spec company (focusrite) the sound drivers are the latest (and work with everything else including BIAB. When I use my piano the sound sounds like its in a long glass tunnel - distorted, Buffer changes have no effect.
I contacted technical support and they suggested Asio4All this crashed RealBand altogether.
Asio4all shows up as a driver but without outputs if you selec t it you get a crash.
MME gives too much latency
technical support have given up and say they wont test as they have no focusrites
seems like real band is completely useless for me and biab cannot be used for recordning my piano (TruePianos).
Any ideas
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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RealBand
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Somewhere in the focusrite control panel there should be a place to set buffer size.
That is the usual culprit.
Takes experimentation to find the right setting for your computer system.
Sometimes it is listed as Latenchy in mS, other times as buffer sizes such as 128, 256, etc. plus there may exist a few other nomenclatures, consult the manual for your focusrite.
Also may need to unlock the focusrite in that control panel as well, such that any host program is allowed to access and control bitrate and samplerate.
Finally, if trying to do drag and drop, you can't always have two different sound programs open at the same time addressing the same unit's ASIO drivers. ASIO wants to be a "one man dog" by design. Answer for that is to switch one of the two programs over to MME/WDM Windows Sound Drivers and only use the ASIO on the one in which you intend to record with the low latency advantage.
--Mac
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RealBand
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Zee, I am sure you have tried MME, and it really does have too much latency. I ask because where BiaB says MME it is really using WDM, which in many cases is just as fast as ASIO. Try MMe again and try using different buffering setting and see if it does not work.
True Pianos is the paid version of the old 4front piano is it not? If so then that never worked on PG products for me, I could never get the volume to work. I ended up with Sampletank2 and a few others. I also can never get good results with my ASIO on PG stuff and only use MME, but i do not get much latency.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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RealBand
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Set the buffer size to max in both the SaffireMIxControl and the Application - the sound has changed, my piano now sounds like ping pong in an echo chamber, it did sound like a paino in a glass tunnel.
cant change the synch status its fixed.
I really do appreciate you input Mac - you have helped me out of a few jams now and I value your knowledge. Bear in mind that I run Cubase on this machine too and a host of other music apps - they all work faultlessly at low buffer. I have updated the drivers. TruePianos works in standalone even with small buffers. The PC is zip fast its a core i7 920 with 12 gig running in 64 bit so buffer is not really an issue any more - i think, at least with everything else.
Last edited by ZeroZero; 12/07/10 05:09 PM.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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RealBand
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Mac also mentioned 'unlocking' the Focusrite. Important point.
Most drivers allow unlocking so the host application can take control of the settings.
Otherwise, the software is trying one thing while the hardware (card) is trying another.
*Edit-
I see you posted while I was. Using max buffers in ASIO is often not the solution. Eats up other resources instead. There is usually a workable range. With your system, maybe max buffers won't matter, but many systems have a 'too much' point as well as a too small point.
Also- your sig says Delta1010, but you are asking about Focusrite. Had to change with the new system?
Like it otherwise?
Last edited by rharv; 12/07/10 05:16 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Thanks Rob
when I try MME I get no sound at all. I think there was sound earlier on MME but somhow its vanished - it was slow though about 15 msec - unuseable. I do get activity on the virtual keyboard and I do have a VST selected
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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RealBand
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For some reason the card wont unlock
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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RealBand
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Is a program running that may be using it?
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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I dont mean to be rude but I have to go... other business
I hsall read tomorrow thanks for the input folks.
its annoying that both 'accompaniment' programs cant record a simple VST I do hope that Peter Gannon sorts out VST hosting in the next update for Biab
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Zee, both are not accompaniment programs, RB is a DAW it just includes many helpful features of BiaB. That asside, I also hope they work out the VST issues, but still there are a ton of VSTi's that work well in RB, and BiaB for that matter. I use Sampletank, and some others a lot. I also had a nice one called PS fretted that did some nice guitar and bass samples. Have you tried a solution like a VSTi mino host or something that will allow you to use it in RB, and BiaB. Someone posted some info on that the other day.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
Set the buffer size to max in both the SaffireMIxControl and the Application - the sound has changed, my piano now sounds like ping pong in an echo chamber, it did sound like a paino in a glass tunnel.
Try other settings, one at a time. ASIO is not the case where the fastest setting doesn't perform well, so you try the slowest - and come to a conclusion. Often it is a Timing Issue and one or two of the settings in between the two extremes will indeed work. I'd try moving up incrementally from fastest towards the slow end, one at a time. And don't forget that you may have to shut down the host program in between settings changes on some ASIO sound devices.
That said, buffer size typically demonstrates itself in audio dropouts, clicks and pops and the like, and not in weird sounding music, which does happen when the bitrate does not match between host program and asio card.
Since your focusrite is working fine with a number of other appliations, I'd be trying any and all of the different settings inside RealBand prefs - one at a time - to see if there were any differences to be found, good bad or otherwise. If I changed a setting and no joy, I'd change that back to where it was before trying another. And so on.
--Mac
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RealBand
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I, too, have had innumerable issues with getting ASIO to work acceptably, but it is never BIAB, nor RealBand's fault alone.
Try downloading SynthFont and SynthOne. These are simple freeware (last time I checked they were still free) applications that pass through MIDI input to a soundfont-generation sound output. I find that the issues I have with BIAB are identical with this simple application. If I fix one, I fix the other. It is definitely ASIO acting up, and yes, it usually comes down to some application contention issue.
Joel
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OK So I have taken the advice above (and thanks for the support guys)
Using Saffire or Asio4All dirvers under every buffer size setting (I tried all setings for both) the sound is strangled.
Soud card will not unlock. TYhis is a Focusrite Liquid Channel56 I am using wich uses the Saffire MIx control.
All versions of BIAB and RealBand are up to date 2011 build 2. Saffire dsriver is up to date.
Everything works on all other programs including Cubase, Absynth, TruePianos, Hammond B4,East West Play, Sibelius and a lot more.
All I want to do is to be able to play my favorite VST, through a quality set up/sound card and record it
No other apps are open
Asio works in BIAB under 128 buffer sizes and above
The ONLY problem is RealBand
It seems that neither real band or BIAB are capable of this.
requests for proper VST support (from many users) are being ignored or put on the back burner again (I was hoping that something would come in this update!)
PG are not interested in pursuing my persojnal problem through tech support and insist its my drivers even though I have tried two different drivers (Saffire and Asio4all.
Its a very simple thing to ask these prgrams to do
Why is this too much to ask PG?
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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The fact that the soundcard will not unlock is a clue. Something has the ASIO driver and is not letting go, it seems to me.
You should always be able to let the host contol the driver; part of ASIO design. Since you can't, maybe you need to check bit rates closely in RB or figure out WHY you can't unlock it.
16 or 24 bit?
44.1, 48, 88, or 96 kz rate?
They must match to work.
But still, since you can not unlock the driver something else appears to be interfering.
Maybe Cubase is locking it, or another program.. windows even!
and in my opinion it is not a very simple thing to ask a program to do; it's pretty demanding actually.
What is puzzling to me is that it works in BiaB and not RB.
The developers of the two work pretty closely together, there shouldn't be a major difference in how they work with VSTi, except that RB is a multiple driver DAW and BiaB is single driver.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I would suggest that first off un install ASIO4all. I never could get it to co-exist with my Delta ASIO native driver. Even though ASIO4All is a Wrapper for WDM it still emulates a ASIO driver. And can not run when another host has another ASIO driver open.
Next change BiaB to run with only MME it is not necessary to use ASIO on that program. Lastly setup RB to run the ASIO driver for the focusrite. Then close all the programs re-boot the computer and then open RB and see if it does not work better.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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OK thanks for continuing to help guys, my rant is not with you but weith an application that does not work in a typical modern environment.
RobH:
I tried all of the above sasme result - Real Band, with a jazz quartet loaded, sounds like its coming through the chimes of a clock filled with grains if I can put it that way. I tried a couple of buffer size settings
Rharv
From a fresh start up the driver is locked and cannot be unlocked, with no apps running at all.
24 bit 44.1
With respect I still hold that it should be simple for RealBAND to all me to play a VST and record it along with a track - many free sequencers do this the technology is out there and part of many music apps.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Is realband set to 24/44 also?
Check the bitrate being used by windows by right-clicking the speaker icon in bottom right. Is this where the focusrite is getting the bitrate from?
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Rharv: RealBand is set up for 24.44
Windows volume control is set to the same
I dont know how Windows could 'grab' the sync status in my Saffire driver
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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From what I read that is a feature of the new saffire drivers. In some models they even removed the 'lock/unlock' button because, as they say, the driver can determine when audio is used and handle the adjustment on its own.
Did a search on asio lock at saffire support this morning.
I was thinking of getting focusrite device, but now not looking so good to me. If it doen't play nice with RB I don't need the headaches. I was hoping we'd find a fix for you. I realize it may work here and not there, for some mystery reason, but I'm not sure I like the way the drivers work after reading up on them a little.
Exact same drivers and bitrates being used in both RB and BiaB? Or is BiaB set to 16/44?
If so, try RB at that rate.
Last edited by rharv; 12/12/10 07:57 AM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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This of course has been beaten to death.I'll ASSUME you need ASIO?
It isn't RB or BIAB. I don't need ASIO in RB & BIAB however I've tested it quite extensively.
It works fine with:
1. Creative Audigy 2 ZS Notebook with KX asio.
2. My internal soundcard with 3rd party ASIO drivers
3. IKMultimedia guitar interface that is ASIO only.
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