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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
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Yesterday I came back to BIAB. I was impressed and excited about how BIAB has improved since my last version. (It's been several years) Played with it a bit today and loved the new sound. Thought I'd purchase some additional RealTracks so I began browsing around and discovered RealBand. Wow this is cool. Got to have it. Finally discovered it was packaged with the PC version and I can't get it for a Mac. Wonder what the PC guys had to pay? To my suprise I found that yesterday, as I purchased BiaB, the PC folks were paying less for a new version, which also included RealBand, than I paid for the old version without it.
Suddenly my excitement was extinguished like getting slapped with a cold fish across the face. I called and talked to BiaB folks who were pleasant and let me vent...not too vociferously I hope. They explained that the discount resulted from the release of the new version and that Mac folks would also receive a discount when the new Mac version comes out. OK, that's great, but I bought yesterday, what good does that do me. (If the new version comes out within thirty days of purchase there will supposedly be some kind of an adjustment. And if pigs had wings they could fly.)
The bottom line is that a I went from being extremely pleased to feeling like the the customer on the TV commercial who's locked into a fixed rate after the rates have gone down. As he mentions the falling rates on the phone to the customer service rep she smiles and says "Yes, isn't that great!" "Not for me!" he responds.
I would hope that the PG decision makers would ask themselves this question, "No matter what rationalization or justification we might make, how do we expect a customer to feel when ,at the same time of purchase, they discover they have paid more than someone else pays for a newer version that also includes a great program which they can't have?"
The only logical answer is that they feel the small financial difference outweighs the public relations blunder created by this policy. Could be... but today I was pumped and prepared to buy several hundred dollars worth of additional RealTracks. Instead I bought none. Perhaps that's true financial impact of making customers feel like second class citizens.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 187
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 187 |
Hi.
The answer to the question you ask is... Yes, Mac users are valued (and not just by PG).
The issues raised may well have some validity, though you are perhaps unlikely to find much support, empathy or even sympathy with such an attack on a company which (in my experience) offers much more customer service / support than most.... let alone offering a superb product (BIAB).
I am a Mac stalwart, yet understand and accept (sometimes with difficulty) that Mac users make up less than 5% of global computer users. This must have an impact on production costs for companies making available products for both platforms. The vast percentage of income is going to come via PC users, therefore it is justifiable that most research and testing etc goes in that direction. As far bundles... again, so what. The extra stuff still needs deign etc and is made easier given that it is often an extension of existing PC based stuff.
Most folks use Macs because of the hardware... it is consistent, reliable and beautiful. For such traits we accept that we may well get software at a different time and at a different price to our PC counterparts. It is no use to anybody having a Mac and then complaining.... we know what the score is. We are in the minority but NOT second class citizens. Certainly not in the eyes of PG. I feel they treat us Mac users with courtesy and consideration.
I understand you are frustrated because you want to use a great product and also want value for money. You are most likely also going to be requiring support from PG and the Mac community on this forum... it might be more beneficial to be slightly less robust in how you express your views.
I hope your experience does not dissuade you from sticking with BIAB.... the 2011 version looks and sounds great, and I am certain it will enable your creativity to be fully realised.
Kind regards
Gilmore Greene
"It is the best of all trades, to make songs, and the second best to sing them" - Hilaire Beloc
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2003
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If the 'people' behind Mac had not constantly changed the operating system without regard to who was selling what, you'd have the exact same version at the exact same price.
But the bottom line is every few years, despite many companies trying to market Mac products, the brains behind Macs and anything Apple change everything. At one point, for many years there was no compiler to allow pg music to port their product to Mac. Just like the idiotic idea that an Ipad can't do any flash. I was at my son's yesterday trying to get theatre tickets for a film and because his Ipad could not view the website, all we got was a description. I ended up on the phone, whereas had I any other tool available I'd have been able to get the info on-line.
The beta testing (several weeks of it) and then the release of the 'windows' version, has just happened. Normally, after the sales that generates settle down and the shipments are done, and the Christmas vacation is over the product goes to the next step, which may or may not include a Mac update. Given that they added a server to the Ipad/Iphone/Ipad on the windows side in this version do you think that maybe this will happen on the 'mac' side?
As said previously, Macs barely have enough sales to justify any development, don't build any company of sales to Mac users, the product may change, they may not tell the developers, and they may not have the tools to port the application. Very nice.
PG music has a 30 day return no ask policy. You could send it back and wait.
In the meantime the Mac salesman told me that Garageband would do anything you want, and that all professional studios are using it. No other software is needed. And that indeed in the credo which scares developers away.
And to be honest if they asked ME what should be done next, as a former developer for Unix platforms I would tell them to build an app for Android phones and then QNX. You might think apple is 'unix' of a sort but it's not compliant enough to write code in Ubuntu and port it over. It's too locked down. Just like DRM and Apple. Don't even think of going there.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
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Great to hear positive comments about BIAB. Though I tried not to be too negative, perhaps my disappointment over not being able to get RealBand probably got the best of me. I was told that BIAB hasn't developed RealBand for Mac because Apple has Garage Band. Not the same thing. I have a pretty nice project recording studio and have run sophisticated recording/editing programs on the Mac (Pro Tools and Digital Performer) for years. If I just wanted to export from BIAB and import into a recording/editing program I wouldn't care about RealBand.
I understand why BIAB might not be able to justify development for RealBand for Mac, though Mac market share is rising rapidly.
However, I still feel that anyone who buys something and discovers they have paid more than someone else paid for a newer version of a product that also includes a great program which they can't have, is going to be upset. That's only human nature. I don't believe I'm the only person who would feel that way. Perhaps I'm just the only one obnoxious enough to say anything about it.
If after further investigation, if I feel RealBand would do what I need, I may decide to partition my hard drive and run Windows on my Mac. (Can PCs run both operating systems? I don't think so.) That might be a great solution. Hadn't thought about it earlier.
Last edited by inzoney; 12/19/10 09:54 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 63
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 63 |
Don't forget the available emulators out there that don't require dual-booting. I've not tried one with BIAB but I don't see why it should not work just fine. (Heck, if they can do stuff like accelerated OpenGL, BIAB should be no problem.)
With a Mac, you do have to come to terms with the fact that you are indeed in a niche market desktop-software-wise. There are not nearly the number of games released for mac, for example, and that's not likely to change soon.
<My opinion only>
Regarding Mr. Conley's post - As far as Mac changing the environment every few years, coming from 15 or so years in professional software development, that's kind of the nature of the game. Anybody out there spend time learning MFC? How useful is that now? I have tons of esoteric knowledge of various real-time operating systems that are no longer supported or in use. Technology moves quickly, so the landscape changes as well, for Mac, Windows, hardware development, you name it. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just commenting that it's hardly a mac-only thing - It's the nature of the beast.
</My opinion only>
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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It is pretty much a proven fact that your Lisp, Cobol, Fortran, or C software has always been, and is now possible to port to any Unix or even Windows box. Not so for Mac, and it's why it's stuck as being a pretty thing for playing with pictures, and has not been in use as a enterprise wide system, say for a bank.
Pretty soon, with the advent of cloud computing, we are going back to the days where the software is elsewhere and your computer is a display. Google has done this with the current version of google docs. The day the entire suite of office software is available and you are pretending to be a vt100 terminal but with today's graphics capability, apple or Mac can take off, however it still will need to compete with cheaper systems that do the same thing.
So if you want to develop software to run an entire sawmill, and hope to keep it in shape and running for 10 years, which platform...?
I have software written in 1984 for a unix system that is still in use, line for line, running 10 million transactions a month to operate a chain of 300 fitness clubs. I've retired but my wife, who I sold with the company!, is still there.....
They've spent millions to replace my code and software, for which I got about 40k, and they still can't get it to happen. I remember some guy who got 50k and said he could do it only to find out that one pass of the database to pick a membership list in dbase took 12 hours and locked the system, and with 50 clubs at the time times 12 hours it took 25 days of all day to run membership lists, let alone key updates, sales, new members etc...and he ran away.
I don't know everything about Macs or Apple, but they have treated developers very badly, because they want you to use their software and apps. And if they don't like your app, the apple store is going to freeze you out.
So much for being open...drm...wow.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Mr. Conley, regarding your comment about Macs, "Not so for Mac, and it's why it's stuck as being a pretty thing for playing with pictures, and has not been in use as a enterprise wide system, say for a bank." I can only say thank God and I hope they never change that.
I have worked professionally recording/editing video and audio on computers (Macs) since the mid nineties and I think lots of folks would agree that Macs have historically, though PCs have made great progress in that area, been the primary platform for professionals "playing with pictures" not to mention "playing with audio". Not sure what you mean by "pretty thing". I suspect you are referring to the interface which I believe is much more aesthetically appealing. When I use windows it's like watching black and white TV. But that's just my opinion and I'm sure lots of folks would feel the opposite. But yes, I accept my Macs (I think I currently have five) as pretty things for playing with pictures and sounds. It's just that I think that's a good thing and you seem to look down on those creative and artistic endeavors.
I wouldn't recommend Macs for my accountant or banker (which it seems you hold in higher esteem than us artistic types) because PCs are obviously better for crunching numbers, as in your application above. Nor would I belittle my accountant or banker because they "play with numbers", which would be extremely boring to me.
Each platform has it's place, it's strengths, and it's weaknesses.
Look, I think BIAB is a super program and is so much better than it was years ago when I was using it. I apologize if I offended anyone by stating my feelings. I was encouraged by BIAB reps to post in the forum when I spoke to them on the phone.
However, I stand by my statement that I feel anyone who buys something and discovers they have paid more than someone else paid for a newer version of the same product, which also includes a great program that they can't have, is probably going to be upset and I don't think that's good PR for any company. Please understand that it's not the money...it's just the feeling, right or wrong, of being somehow treated unfairly.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Well, the last 6 years I worked I purchased a large Avid workstation, 2 huge monitors, 14 chained DVD writers, 3 commercial Sony video cameras, tripods, lighting gear, all to shoot, make, and edit video. We explored "apple" but for commercial video they had no 'end to end' solution, nor could we render our finished product to enough dvd's to distribute them. There were 3 systems purchased by the same corporation, and we took 14 months with a 3 person committee to meet with all the players.
The local TV stations were using Avid. The University was using Avid.
I found out a couple of Mom and Pop outfits were using Macs, beyond that...not much.
As to looking down on people with artistic blah blah, you are just a bit off base there. Despite the fact I am now retired, and I owned several companies, I play 5 instruments, play in a Brass Band, a 'horn' band, 2 trios, and with my wife who has several degrees in music so she can keep me 'grounded', though I dislike too much ground bass. (see...Pachbel's canon ground bass)
If you happen to be in France the 1st week in May I will be working on a retrospective of 1750 to 1770 the French Artistic community, though I am hoping to have completed the same retrospective of England during the same period. I expect to be in the archives at the Musee d'Orsay, perchance you might like to assist, unless you don't speak any foreign languages. I admit the ability to quickly photograph documents and show them on a screen during a presentation will make my new Playbook with the HDMI port a very viable teaching tool.
I would note the following from the Final Cut Pro wiki, and note there is a huge difference between Bob and Doug making home made videos of weddings and people making Documentaries for the Nature Channel....
Quote Wiki:
A published Survey in 2008 by the American Cinema Editors Guild placed their users at 21% FCP (and growing from previous surveys of this group), while all others are still on an Avid system of some kind.
It's a tad premature to say that Apple has the market cornered at less than 7% of the 'PC' market and about 20 some percent of the video editing market. They also have about zero percent of the news, sports market etc., which from my experience is just straight Avid. Familiarize yourself with their products, maybe someday you can 'graduate.'
Gotta run, the wife and I are getting ready a duet for horn and flute based on "In the Bleak MidWinter and I'm sketching out the harmonies for horn and need a few minutes to transpose it for a Bb instrument. I'll look down on the wife, I think she's a closet artist, especially if she plays the bassoon.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2010
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You are exactly right, Mr. Conley, certainly the Macs aren't on the level of the Avid systems. I thought we were talking about Macs and PCs. And my work might be perceived as being small time in many respects, though not at the level of doing weddings etc. Having just retired myself I have no desires to "graduate" to an Avid system.
But once again, we have strayed from the point I was hoping to make with my original post, which was never the superiority of Macs.
Let me try once again (for the third time).
After purchasing BIAB I was excited about using the real tracks and revisited the website to purchase additional RealTracks. When I did I discovered RealBand and was really pumped. I then realized it was only available for PCs so I wondered what they had to pay for it. Keep in mind I had just purchased the program. When I found that PC users received the new version with RealBand included for a price lower than I paid for the old version without it, my excitement over my purchase diminished instantly. I called and spoke to BIAB reps, stated my case and expressed that I felt this situation was not a good policy from a PR standpoint. I don't think any company would want their customers to feel as I did when I made that discovery. I asked that if my comments might be passed along to the decision makers. They suggested I post my case in the forums.
My emotions probably got the best of me and I came on a bit strong. But that's exactly my point. I don't believe PG Music or any other reputable company would want to have a policy that would generate those feelings to new customers.
Though I was a loyal BIAB customers for years, I had not used BIAB for quite some time, in fact I couldn't even load my old version on my computer so in essence I was starting over.
I believe a much better policy would be for PG to offer the current Mac version, once the PC version has been released, for the price at which the new Mac version will be sold. Sort of a pre-purchase of the new version, and allow the buyer to use the current version until the new version is released. Otherwise the options for the buyer are to wait until the new version is released or face the possibility of having to pay twice. There is another thread in this forum dealing with this exact issue (see "When does the 2011 version for Mac come?) That just doesn't seem like good business to me.
Who wins with the current policy? Not the customer considering purchasing who decides to wait and certainly not the one who does purchase unless the new version is released within thirty days. And not PG Music if the potential buyer waits and then cools on buying. It's a lose-lose situation. Why not make it a win-win situation and create positive PR vibes for PG Music at the same time?
Last edited by inzoney; 12/19/10 09:52 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2003
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1. RealBand is Powertracks Pro,(Beefed up) and Norm, who wrote it was not really a pg music employee, but sold his software for a few bucks and eventually his software was included for free. This was in the era that there was no compiler to update or change Band in a Box for the Mac. And as the code was years of work, in a language of development that they had no desire to ditch, it languished. To my knowledge Norm never saw the need to spend the time to port his software, I stand to be corrected on the issue.
2. Given the market, (check the number of users each time you come on and where they are it's like 60 to 2, or 80 to 4..I've never seen 10 people at a time on the Mac forum.) I believe Norm, who controls those products, has decided that given the lack of help from Mother Apple, who contend that Garage Band does what RealBand does probably are not interested in having him port his product. Remember that unlike writing an application for a PC where you can go buy a compiler and development environment from Amazon, you need far more to be able to port to Mac. And your chance of sales are?
3. PGmusic has NEVER in all the years from Atari up, announced the next version is in the works. You can guess, you can pray, you can spy, but you don't know. Imagine a small company with a dozen employees hoping to finish development, alpha testing, beta testing and poduct release for March 1, but having last minute problems that take a month or two to solve. Now imagine the cash flow problem. That's not good business. I doubt you'll find any company in the end user software business, with the exception of games, ever does that. And in the gaming industry they have tallied up the present version, discounted it, and started a marketing effort to ramp up the new product, which is already done testing, is working, and is waiting for some fools to line up 2 days before launch while the company pays media people to send cameras to the stores to see some flunkies in New York who are probably paid by said company to sit in a tent awaiting the version they have to have. Trust me, I ran the media manipulation (I mean education) program at work, you don't think the $20 a piece half sandwich and trip to the bar after were a fluke eh?
So
1. It costs more to make a Mac version.
2. They don't get development help,but rather the opposite.
3. The Mac version may not work at all on the next Mac system, which might be granddaughter of Lisa.
4. PG Music is playing catch up on the Mac issue, while trying to stay in business selling to the larger market.
These, being user forums, are often not read by the management of PGmusic, unless it's the wishlist forum. That being said, Peter and Oliver Gannon, along with some of the staff, go through the wishlist every few months and post comments on suggestions.
As far as corporate policies, Pg music has stayed in business since the first platform was an Atari. Millions of others have fallen by the wayside.
As to the cost of producing the Mac version, supporting it, and developing it, we must imagine the margins are pretty slim.
I have not tested the latest version for PC on my wife's netbook. I see that same netbook for 229$ with Win 7 now. I ran fine on the previous version, and was better than that on jukebox with frozen tracks.
Now, back to evaluating video editing software (free) for Linux on my old Sony Laptop. Just some minor sync issues with the audio, and I need a title editor. (or move it at this stage to Pinnacle..)
NOTE: At 7 a.m. Sunday, 40 users..1 in the Band in a Box Mac forum.
Note2: Avid resellers sold HP boxes with dual monitor cards, Raid Hard Drives, running Windows 2000. To have a working system they built it, tested it, delivered it, and did the initial training. The aftermarket thing we did was to chain the DVD writers so we could render a batch of training videos for weekly distribution to every fire station in the city. Leave it run overnight.
But for fun I was at the Tv station and they let me edit my interview and were blown away by the fact I figured it out on the fly. I never told them that their system looked the same as mine, but I know they paid about 250 k for it, and that it ran on some 12 machines in the production studio. Some higher end graphic stuff, but the same basic system. I confessed later.
Last edited by John Conley; 12/20/10 05:16 AM.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116 |
I can't argue that because there are more PC users out there, us Mac dudes are always second in line. You gotta let the market be your guide right? But you know, as much as I love my band in a box, the user interface is from the 70's, and it LOOKS like it was built to run on an Atari. There are so many things about BIAB that get on my nerves, I don't even know where to start. For one, I'd like to know what chorus I'm on without having to switch to the notation window. Anyways...
As long as no one else is writing nice play-along software, PG is safe. No competition for you, eh? But remember, that whole "let the market be the guide thing" can backfire. The only reason we stick to BIAB is that no one else is writing this cool kind of useful software for musicians. Garage band is sort of in the neighborhood, but not really. If anyone else did, I'd jump ship FAST! I'm sick of being #2 to PC users and having to put up with a non-intuitive user interface from the 70's, then watching the PC dudes getting all the fun stuff first.
Are mac users valued here? I say NO!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Check the forums when you log on. 2 users in the Mac forums, and 40 in the PC forum. And if you were a developer, remember, the whole Mac environment is likely to change and there will be no compiler for your software. It's happened to PG music, I have suggested they ost the frustrating history of how Mac treated them, along with others, however that might just get them blacklisted and then they couldn't sell the new iphone ipad ipod software on the Apple app store.
For that matter, I demand, after all these years of being a loyal customer, that they stop treating me as a second class citizen and port the iphone, ipad, and ipod app to Android and Blackberry, NOW. I'm tired of being a second class citizen.
I did think that it's time for the organ in the loft that plays those pipes needs a huge update too. The interface and knobs are so freaking out of date, pushing and pulling stuff when a nice keyboard and 500w speakers with built-in reverb would out do that old pipe organ by a mile. I even know where to get good midi footpedals that are not almost 100 years old.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815
Expert
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Expert
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Posts: 1,815 |
I use the PC version, so I never really visit here too much. But I was intrigued by the thread title. I was pretty surprised to see a PC user berating mac users. Seems like if you are a PC user and didn't know what PG music was planning, you would stay out of a thread that you had no knowledge about. If you you want to support PG music, there must be a better ways to go about it, then trying to run down other folks' choice of platforms. Interesting spin on Mac vs PC: In 2009 MAC's were winning big on high-end computer purchases. MAC is just not interested (at the moment) is selling $500 computers. http://techcrunch.com/2009/07/23/the-mac-versus-pc-debate-has-never-been-clearer/
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Quote:
I'm tired of being a second class citizen.
I'm not sure what the point of the post is, since you mock his complaint, but at the same time validate it. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Life is full of that. What goes around comes around.
hê eis to adunaton apagôgê...which sums up as...
Reductio ad Absurdum
ergo..never mind..
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Yesterday I came back to BIAB. I was impressed and excited about how BIAB has improved since my last version. (It's been several years) Played with it a bit today and loved the new sound. Thought I'd purchase some additional RealTracks so I began browsing around and discovered RealBand. Wow this is cool. Got to have it. Finally discovered it was packaged with the PC version and I can't get it for a Mac. Wonder what the PC guys had to pay? To my suprise I found that yesterday, as I purchased BiaB, the PC folks were paying less for a new version, which also included RealBand, than I paid for the old version without it.
Suddenly my excitement was extinguished like getting slapped with a cold fish across the face. I called and talked to BiaB folks who were pleasant and let me vent...not too vociferously I hope. They explained that the discount resulted from the release of the new version and that Mac folks would also receive a discount when the new Mac version comes out. OK, that's great, but I bought yesterday, what good does that do me. (If the new version comes out within thirty days of purchase there will supposedly be some kind of an adjustment. And if pigs had wings they could fly.)
The bottom line is that a I went from being extremely pleased to feeling like the the customer on the TV commercial who's locked into a fixed rate after the rates have gone down. As he mentions the falling rates on the phone to the customer service rep she smiles and says "Yes, isn't that great!" "Not for me!" he responds.
Oh geeze. As a mac user, you get Garageband FREE with your mac. That is easily as good if not better than RealBand. Couple it with Band in a Box and I don't see what you are bitching about.
Quote:
I would hope that the PG decision makers would ask themselves this question, "No matter what rationalization or justification we might make, how do we expect a customer to feel when ,at the same time of purchase, they discover they have paid more than someone else pays for a newer version that also includes a great program which they can't have?"
The only logical answer is that they feel the small financial difference outweighs the public relations blunder created by this policy. Could be... but today I was pumped and prepared to buy several hundred dollars worth of additional RealTracks. Instead I bought none. Perhaps that's true financial impact of making customers feel like second class citizens.
WTF.....second class? Good god man, so they include a program that is similar to Garageband for the PC users. BFD. Deal with it. I'm totally happy with the Mac version of Band in a Box. Works perfectly on my 2006 iMac.
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335 |
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Well, the last 6 years I worked I purchased a large Avid workstation, 2 huge monitors, 14 chained DVD writers, 3 commercial Sony video cameras, tripods, lighting gear, all to shoot, make, and edit video. We explored "apple" but for commercial video they had no 'end to end' solution, nor could we render our finished product to enough dvd's to distribute them. There were 3 systems purchased by the same corporation, and we took 14 months with a 3 person committee to meet with all the players.
The local TV stations were using Avid. The University was using Avid.
I found out a couple of Mom and Pop outfits were using Macs, beyond that...not much.
As to looking down on people with artistic blah blah, you are just a bit off base there. Despite the fact I am now retired, and I owned several companies, I play 5 instruments, play in a Brass Band, a 'horn' band, 2 trios, and with my wife who has several degrees in music so she can keep me 'grounded', though I dislike too much ground bass. (see...Pachbel's canon ground bass)
Maybe that is true in Canada, but I don't know of anyone using Avid systems over FCP. This includes TV stations in the SF Bay Area which is sorta Avid's backyard.
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If you happen to be in France the 1st week in May I will be working on a retrospective of 1750 to 1770 the French Artistic community, though I am hoping to have completed the same retrospective of England during the same period. I expect to be in the archives at the Musee d'Orsay, perchance you might like to assist, unless you don't speak any foreign languages. I admit the ability to quickly photograph documents and show them on a screen during a presentation will make my new Playbook with the HDMI port a very viable teaching tool.
Oh, a Playbook huh? To go with the Zune player you have?
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I would note the following from the Final Cut Pro wiki, and note there is a huge difference between Bob and Doug making home made videos of weddings and people making Documentaries for the Nature Channel....
Quote Wiki:
A published Survey in 2008 by the American Cinema Editors Guild placed their users at 21% FCP (and growing from previous surveys of this group), while all others are still on an Avid system of some kind.
It's a tad premature to say that Apple has the market cornered at less than 7% of the 'PC' market and about 20 some percent of the video editing market. They also have about zero percent of the news, sports market etc., which from my experience is just straight Avid. Familiarize yourself with their products, maybe someday you can 'graduate.'
Funny, I know several people who have done work for Discovery Channel who use FCP.......though not quite in the league of the Nature Channel......who watches that anyhow? Is it a Canadian thing perhaps?
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 335 |
Quote:
After purchasing BIAB I was excited about using the real tracks and revisited the website to purchase additional RealTracks. When I did I discovered RealBand and was really pumped. I then realized it was only available for PCs so I wondered what they had to pay for it. Keep in mind I had just purchased the program. When I found that PC users received the new version with RealBand included for a price lower than I paid for the old version without it, my excitement over my purchase diminished instantly. I called and spoke to BIAB reps, stated my case and expressed that I felt this situation was not a good policy from a PR standpoint. I don't think any company would want their customers to feel as I did when I made that discovery. I asked that if my comments might be passed along to the decision makers. They suggested I post my case in the forums.
My emotions probably got the best of me and I came on a bit strong. But that's exactly my point. I don't believe PG Music or any other reputable company would want to have a policy that would generate those feelings to new customers.
Though I was a loyal BIAB customers for years, I had not used BIAB for quite some time, in fact I couldn't even load my old version on my computer so in essence I was starting over.
Sigh......you can run older versions of Band in a Box on Mac. Version 12 still works fine on mine. Versions that require OS 9 though, no. Take that up with Apple. Though honestly, it's like trying to use the old tires you had for your 1965 Caddie with your 2010 Mustang......
And if you have the PC version, there is NO REASON why you cannot get something like Parallels and use it on your Mac. I used BinaB 2007 for PC for a while on my iMac under Parallels until PG Music came out with their new version 2009 for Mac. At that point, I ditched Parallels as the 2009 version had most all the features of the PC version.
Still, I don't see why you are having a hissy fit over RealBand. It's not that great. Honestly, using BinaB with Garageband is more powerful. True, you don't get Garageband able to load up a BinaB file and play it right off the bat, you need to use the ingenious drag and drop to drag the tracks over, but once in there you have access to all of Garageband's plugins and sounds, editing and recording abilities. Oh, and the plugin's that Garageband has.
I'm not moaning about RealBand......and you shouldn't either. Maybe they can ship you a candy cane or something.....
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I believe a much better policy would be for PG to offer the current Mac version, once the PC version has been released, for the price at which the new Mac version will be sold. Sort of a pre-purchase of the new version, and allow the buyer to use the current version until the new version is released. Otherwise the options for the buyer are to wait until the new version is released or face the possibility of having to pay twice. There is another thread in this forum dealing with this exact issue (see "When does the 2011 version for Mac come?) That just doesn't seem like good business to me.
Yeah.....good business to you. PG Music is one of the best companies I've dealt with. Period. This goes back to when I was a mere boy using the Atari version of Band in a Box. Their upgrade policies are very fair.
Look, if you want to buy it now or need it now, then get it. If you think they are coming out with a new version, then hold off buying it. Would you expect Apple or Dell to offer what you suggest for computers? Or maybe cars? No. If you buy it now, and they come out with a new version next month, then I'm sure that PG Music would have a very reasonable upgrade policy for you. Perhaps even free. But if you get like 3 months out of something and then they release a new version........should you expect a free update? I don't think so. Regardless, PG Music has always been very fair about upgrades, and I've never had to "pay twice".
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Who wins with the current policy? Not the customer considering purchasing who decides to wait and certainly not the one who does purchase unless the new version is released within thirty days. And not PG Music if the potential buyer waits and then cools on buying. It's a lose-lose situation. Why not make it a win-win situation and create positive PR vibes for PG Music at the same time?
Geeze. Seriously? There is absolutely nothing BAD about the current version of Band in a Box. 2010.5 is a great product. Your reasoning is rather flawed sir. One does not have to "pay twice"......where do you come off thinking this? Have you looked at the upgrade pricing from 2010.5 PC to 2011 PC? It's $100. Totally fair for all the features included in the new version. Hardly the paying twice......geeze.....
Keep up the work PG Music. And for anyone wanting to buy the Mac version of Band in a Box, get it. It is totally worth it and their upgrade pricing is very fair.
Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu.
M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini
https://musician.social/@ericdano
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 63
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 63 |
+1 ericdano.
For what it's worth, I use BIAB 2010.5 with GarageBand and Logic Express. The limitations I encounter in making my music are exclusively mine, not BIAB or my computer.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 512
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 512 |
Quote:
I found out a couple of Mom and Pop outfits were using Macs, beyond that...not much.
well maybe for video editing but don't underestimate Mac for pro work...
For audio for example head to Avid audio forums: total post in HD MAC section of the Digi User Forum: 331,895
HD WIN section of the Digi User Forum: 23,284
These numbers speak for themselves... Most of the biggest studios in your country are using Mac as their DAW
As for software developing MAC vs PC... I have licenses for several softwares (several thousands of $ also...)and BIAB for Mac is THE only one to be left behind.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Forums66
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Jan 19th, 2020
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