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Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? #99249 12/26/10 02:22 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	The BIAB interface seems like a holdover from the DOS days of the 1980s. The manual too. When might we expect an interface that actually takes advantage of the drag/drop, point and click, soft-key enabled interfaces of this century? Plus, any chance that the manuals will ever be re-written by user-literate people and not simply rehash the arcane structure of 20 years ago?

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? #99250 12/26/10 02:31 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	No. I suggest we get an interface whiner's forum. What am I supposed to drag and drop. The Play button? Most of the computer manuals I have were written in a far eastern company, perhaps they should contract that out. First post out of the gate, and you don't even say you own the program. Or ever used it. Or paid for it for that matter. I still claim there should be the requirement for people to enter a valid user id, as in yes this is my bank account, and another option for registered users to ignore those who don't admit to a country, don't have any profile except 1 post, who joined today. Some sort of etiquette should abound.. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? John Conley #99251 12/26/10 07:16 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Boston D dah55 Newbie
dah55 Newbie D Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Boston	I'm glad to see someone else post about this topic. This is not my first post and I do own the program. Before I comment on the subject of this string I have to say that I find John's reply to be shockingly unprofessional and unacceptable. Even if he feels that way I can't believe he would post it for PG customers and his boss to read. I totally agree with BIAB_FRED. Fred's criticisms are highly valid. They are pretty much the same as my fellow Berklee faculty colleagues except theirs included much stronger language. When I spoke with support staff about the manuals they seemed to have no interest in hearing comments or suggestions as simple as, how about using standard musical terms in the index.

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? dah55 #99252 12/27/10 06:39 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Whoever dah55 is, from some unknown place or places, I should inform you that I have no boss. None. I am the boss. There is a comprimise in music. Some of it is very poorly done. Missing information. Just get the 10th edition of the Norton Scores, especially the Gregorian Chants to Beethoven, and you'll be shocked. The professional way to lodge a complaint is 1. Not on the users forum. 2. Not behind some faceless nameless pseudonym. 3. To those who develop the product. Therein you should outline the fact that the product does not meet your expectations, why you are returning it as it does not do what it purports to do, and then find something that you like better. There is a cash back 30 day guarantee. I do NOT work for pgmusic, but have participated for years in providing feedback. For a very small company, with limited resources, they have worked hard at providing value, and the interface may not be pretty, but it's remained constant, whereas as I look in the mirror I've aged very poorly and some features are missing. I'm sure when someone comes up with an elegant front end for Windows7 there might be a change. I'd also point out that you can purchase an Ipad and get an interface written for that device that will allow you to view some websites and play Band in a Box generated tunes with chord display. I'm going back to retirement now. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? John Conley #99253 12/27/10 11:04 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Boston D dah55 Newbie
dah55 Newbie D Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Boston	Mr. Conley-"Team PG" clearly implies that you work for PG. I'm relieved to hear that you do not. David Hollender

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? dah55 #99254 12/27/10 11:43 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 13 J JPSoper Newbie
JPSoper Newbie J Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 13	I disagree with the notion that an anonymous critical post of any aspect of PG's software has no value to PG. I'm confident that, however scathing, unprofessional, or nonconstructive a post might be, the folks at PG are not crying themselves to sleep after reading it. In fact, they might actually be able to glean some growing sentiment from the community of BIAB users and would-be users alike, that would help shape the future releases of this product. I think that if the moderators want to separate the anonymous flame-snipers from the PG-can-do-no-wrong-fanboys, they'll do that. Until then, they'll moderate their own forum as they see fit, modify their terms of service as they see fit, and hopefully listen to the comments of the most critical posters - I think it's highly likely that the guy who finally goes to the effort of creating a profile and posting a critical comment, is potentially a future customer waiting in the wings, essentially giving free, unsolicited marketing data to PG, expressing why they have not yet chosen to purchase BIAB, or why they are reluctant to purchase an upgrade. The PG staff are most certainly grown-ups that don't need to be protected critical posts.

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? JPSoper #99255 12/27/10 01:35 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	The names under the poster are assigned by he forum software based on the number of posts. Thus if you find a way to automate posting "I agree" to every post using a bash script you too can become an 'expert', I think you need to loop your script about 5000 times. In the mean time, there are many of us who have designed and submitted ideas for the 'interface' yet every year we get enhancements that are worth more to the end user than pretty drag and drop buttons. By the way, the note entry function utilizes drag and drop. I have had some pretty software interfaces on totally useless software, the underlying value of a program has nothing to do with the outward appearance. Were that the case we would have never listened to Einstein, he's very homely. You can then perhaps get your basic physics from some starlet in Hollywood. To register as nobody, from nowhere, then say you have a Phd from Berklee is a really cool thing. I don't care. Give us some great insights and musical knowledge. BTW, you can find me, phone me, email me or drop by my house, I'm not a secret. The first post implied that Dr. Gannon was illiterate and a hold over from another century. If you were an internet entrepreneur you'd listen to someone calling you illiterate and from another century? Give me a break. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? #99256 12/27/10 02:53 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,665 Sacramento, California dcuny Veteran
dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,665 Sacramento, California	Without specific suggestions and examples of why change is better, you seem to be advocating change for the sake of change, rather than to obtain a measurable improvement. Changing an interface for the sake of changing an interface is not necessarily progress. For example, the core interface of BiaB is the "chordsheet" - a spreadsheet-like interface used to enter the chord progression. It's not particularly "fancy", given that the primary way to enter information isn't a popup menu, but typing. The basic design hasn't changed since the days of DOS, and a constant complaint seems to be that it's some sort of eyesore. But it's a very fast and effective way to enter chord information, and it's not immediately obvious to me in what way it could be improved. In fact, it even allows commands to be entered into the cells ("begin" to set the beginning of the chorus, for example) which is a lot faster than using a mouse. All complex software has a learning curve. I've found that, despite the amount of clutter in the interface, BiaB has a pretty low level of entry. Once the software configuration is complete - unfortunately, always fraught with issues on a PC - a beginner can quickly find success by entering a chord progression and choosing a style. Using this core idiom, BiaB leverages very little work on the user's part to create substantial results. Did you have any specific ideas in mind for using a more modern UI to create results better than BiaB currently does? -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? dcuny #99257 12/28/10 07:29 AM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 618 US redguitars Journeyman
redguitars Journeyman Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 618 US	The current interface is still fine by me. Very functional, why fix what isn't broken? Wayne, "My Music Page"

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? redguitars #99258 12/28/10 12:32 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 9 J jag5040 Newbie
jag5040 Newbie J Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 9	was going to weigh in there to say what a glib, facile and smug response mr conley had to biab freds post. happy to see someone beat me to it. i DO OWN bb. windows versions 2008 and 2009 mac version 5, 7, 12 AND 2010.5 ultrapak plus. there are issues. to name a few scrolling hideous exporting midi used to be able to import a midi file into protools (or was that the windows version) as separate tracks. it now imports as one track, making it more or less useless. hits still too loud. songs often open at the wrong tempo rendering to wave files crashes the program would be great to declutter the tool bar as the windows version and toggle the annoying yellow note OFFFF very happy to continue to support this great program in the hopes that these issues will one day be addressed. also very pleased that you mr conley DO NOT represent current company policy. were that the case it would be definitely time to jump ship. please enjoy what is left of your retirement. youre not helping. yours sincerely john glance

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? jag5040 #99259 12/28/10 01:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	What is left of my retirement? Did my oncologist tell you before me? Oh dear. You are entitled to your opinion, I see you do not think I'm entitled to mine. We all hope that someday you see the light and the little button that says Shift or Caps. Now you've upset me so badly I'm going to call someone to help me upstairs.. I suspect the staff at pgmusic are in tears over the fact you dislike the program so much. Rather than suffer the angst you can play with Garageband, I heard it's the best. Really up to date. Does everything. Lady Gaga is using it I bet. And Justin Be-bear. Can't beat it. I should visit the forum there, probably full of "listen to the new #1 hit I just made with Garageband..." I'm just too old to change. PS. The type of poster who's first post is a rant, slam, and whine gets treated like a person who comes to your door and yells, "Hey I'm a professional property designer and when are you going to get your house up to date and looking like some thing from this century?" I'd slam the door in the SOx's face. So I did. Ease into it. Show us you actually are a person, not a 12 year old on your Mom's little old Mac with the disk drive on dial up. Read some, figure out what is being done, make some music. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? #99260 12/28/10 01:23 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 335 United States E ericdano Journeyman
ericdano Journeyman E Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 335 United States	Quote: The BIAB interface seems like a holdover from the DOS days of the 1980s. The manual too. When might we expect an interface that actually takes advantage of the drag/drop, point and click, soft-key enabled interfaces of this century? Plus, any chance that the manuals will ever be re-written by user-literate people and not simply rehash the arcane structure of 20 years ago? Honestly, for entering chords, how else would you do it? Its simple and fast and musicians know how to spell chords....right? When you get into the all the things you can do with individual bars.....perhaps there might be some room for improvement. And there are a lot of buttons.....and picking and finding styles is still a total nightmare. That really needs to be completely overhauled. For other aspects of the program, like the recording abilities, I can see perhaps doing more like what say Garageband does. Make it more GUI. But then you get into an area where its like......why bother? Macs come with Garageband........and PG Music came up with a drag and dropping of tracks to DAWs which pretty much takes care of that. Why divert resources copying something that already works and is free? I'd rather PG Music put resources into what it is doing. So.....perhaps you can point out some ideas instead of bitching? Maybe suggest something other than the chord sheet format that would work quicker and easier? I mean, there are a lot of things that can be improved in the interface, like the style picker, but the basic interface is fine by me. Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu. M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini https://musician.social/@ericdano

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? ericdano #99261 01/08/11 02:24 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space w Expert
w Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space	If it matters at all ihave owned and upgrade BinaB ( Mac version ) since version 5 to the current version for intel iMac. The interface is a wee bit out of date however having said that i do feel at home with it. I am not a regular user of BinaB but when i do fire it up either from any one of my legacy Macs or any of my intel iMacs i don't have to re-learn the program to figure out the interface or how to "create" or "play" music. Mr PG created a great program and did an excellent job when he ported it over to the Mac OS. Albeit there have been some version upgrades that seemed to take for ever to get to market. Now, what the heck is that icon all about in the middle of the interface ? Never mind, i forgot to turn on the Help tags ON. Is there a hot key toggle for that ? Oh, did i mention, i like the BiaB interface. Last edited by w; 01/08/11 02:42 PM. Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions macOS Mojave - 10.14.6 @ Aug 16, 2019 iMac i3 3.6 GHz 8GB RAM 4K with Retina display some examples @ sound cloud done with Mac Band and DAW's : https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? w #99262 01/10/11 02:16 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 335 United States E ericdano Journeyman
ericdano Journeyman E Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 335 United States	Again, mr. W, you say it's out of date. How so? What could be done to make it up to date? I can't think of anything. Musician, Polymath, Google Jedi, Apple Master, Windows Wrangler and Digital Wizard. High ratings in Nerd-fu & Geek-fu. M1 Mac Mini, MacBook Pro Touchbar 15", Intel 27" iMac, M1 Mac Mini https://musician.social/@ericdano

Re: Will there ever be a better BIAB interface? ericdano #99263 01/10/11 03:05 PM Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space w Expert
w Expert Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,082 somewhere in outer space	Take a look at that interface and take a look at other DAW interfaces such as Digital Performer, Logic Pro or Cubase. BinaB has the dual keyboards and a plethora of icons that for the most part their equivalents can be located from the BinaB menu bar. For example that "Pref" icon. Although i do understand that most of those icons are similar to using "quick" hot key access. ihave lived with this interface for many years and it might be a disaster for me and perhaps others to modernize the look. However i am not posting to get into a war over the interface. The interface is OK for me because i just accept the quirks and the odd blend of window/mac interface. It's been a while since I've worked with the Window version but i seem to recall the interface was just about the same which offers some benefit if you have to bounce between the two versions. Never the less there is room for a better interface which is possibly what the author of the subject was asking. Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions macOS Mojave - 10.14.6 @ Aug 16, 2019 iMac i3 3.6 GHz 8GB RAM 4K with Retina display some examples @ sound cloud done with Mac Band and DAW's : https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks

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