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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61 |
Hello,
when the conductor feature came up in one of the former releases of BIAB, I was really happy: Live playing with BIAB could be realized so much more real now. I used it a lot, It's great!
Then the RealTrack feature came up. This is great also! So much more real than mere MIDI-tracks!
The problem I face since then is: The conductor feature and the RealTracks don't work together!
When using the conductor with a song that has one or more RealTracks, I still can jump to the predefined bar - and the MIDI-Tracks are following as they should; but the RealTrack(s) follow any other chord progression. I'm not sure what which progression they are really following - from which part of the song -, but they are not doing what they are supposed to do! For example, when I jump to the end of the song early - by pressing "6" - the MIDI-tracks go to the end - but the RealTracks keep on playing several seconds; until they come to a sudden end - somewhere and somehow - but not in tune with the right key.
I tried several things to solve this:
I used different settings for the conductor. Normally my default setting is "Next bar and stay in time). Other settings lead to a total pausing of the song for 1 to 3 seconds before the song is to be heard at the new bar again. (That's a problem even with the MIDI-Tracks!)
Then I used the (new) freeze feature for the song. But the problem(s) persist.
The notebook computer can't be the cause of the problem; it's new and fast enough. (i7-processor and 8 GB of memory).
Can someone help me please?
Thank you very much!
Greetings from germany
Ulrich
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975 |
Hello Ulrich,
What exact version and build of Band-in-a-Box is this with, what are you using as your MIDI driver/synth, are you using MME or ASIO drivers, and what operating system do you have?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Yes, the questions Andrew asks are important, I'm thinking that you have a softsynth latency compensation problem going on there. Need to know that info to help,
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61 |
Hello Andrew,
hello Mac,
thanks for your concern!
Well - I'm using Windows7 now and BIAB build 313. (But the problem occured already with WinXP and previous builds of BIAB).
I'm using the ASIO-Driver of my Edirol PCR controller keyboard.
And - Mac, you may be right that the problem may be here - I'm using the Native Instruments BANDSTAND synthesizer.
It would be so nice if you could give me some hint how to find a solution with this configuration. (I like the sound of the BANDSTAND synthesizer so much. I would rather abstain from the conductor feature than from BANDSTAND (with ASIO).)
Thanks again and
Greetings from germany
Ulrich
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm not familiar with that Edirol controller.
Are you saying that it has the equivalent of an audio device built into it?
Is it USB connect?
What does the Latency figure report for it in the BiaB Midi/Audio window?
Is it set to be unlocked and run from the host program or is it set to a certain bitrate?
If it is set to anything else than 16/44.1, that might be the problem.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 179
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I have same experiences as Ulrich, and have had ever since I started using Real Tracks. I've reported it several times here publicly as well as in private in communications direct with PG support. The only response I ever got was that they could reproduce the problem. I recently upgraded my laptop from a Dell Inspiron 600 to a high end Sony Vaio running Windows 7 (so different OS and different soft-synth). Hoped that would fix it, but no joy. The Sony renders the Real Tracks in about one third the time and works flawlessly - except that the Conductor function still does not work properly.
Consider what you'd like to do in a "standards-based" gig, which is to sometimes (on the fly) add more middle choruses or jump to the last chorus at the end of the chorus being played. I don't have time at the moment for a long email, but it's easy to reproduce the condition by loading or creating a song with a standard 32 bar chorus with multiple repeats. Let it play past the first chorus then use Conductor to change the order of choruses - say maybe repeat a middle chorus. That usually seems to work -- until you come the end of the song -- which will not end properly. For instance if there's a tag ending the audio will play the tag, but the visual bar position indicator goes to the beginning the song. Then the song starts over, on it's own (all this makes me suspect software pointer problems).
I'm a ten-plus year, every-year faithfull upgrader and am a strong advocate for BIAB among all my friends and the people who come to the gigs I use it for. It's a great program, PG's a great company. Every upgrade I hope and look for this fix.
Thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
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OP
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Hello Mac,
what would this forum be without BIAB experts like you and others?! Thank you for your concern and for your help in sharing your deep knowledge about BIAB with the other users!!!
Here are some short answers for your answers:
--- Are you saying that it has the equivalent of an audio device built into it?
- Yes! The correct model type is: "Edirol PCR-A30"
--- Is it USB connect?
- Yes. For Data and current.
--- What does the Latency figure report for it in the BiaB Midi/Audio window?
- It says: "Driver Latency: 40ms"
--- Is it set to be unlocked and run from the host program or is it set to a certain bitrate?
- I don't know how to answer this question correctly.
I can't change the Latency directly. It is linked to the ASIO Buffer Size in the ASIOs Driver Setup.
I set it to "1920 Samples." This is considered to be "Best Quality" in the driver setup.
This is very demanding for the computer, I know. But my machine still has reserves. Last year I invested a lot
of money for a new laptop computer. It was one of the fastest available at that time.
(Like John, I enjoy RealTracks generating really fast now!)
--- If it is set to anything else than 16/44.1, that might be the problem.
- I can't change that within the ASIO Driver Setup.
But this is the default setting in the EDIROLs hardware setup.
It would be great - for John and me - if you could give us some helpful advice.
By the way - like John I am a BIAB user since more than 10 years; still fascinated by the program; always upgrading the program since. Thanks also from me again to the developer team and staff!
Greetings from germany
Ulrich
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,975 |
Hello Ulrich,
I tested all the conductor functions with the default mode set to "now", and all the functions worked correctly. I used an all RealTracks song - the _JazzBop demo song. With MME drivers there was a slight pause when jumping around the song, however I was able to fix this by using ASIO drivers. I used ASIO4ALL, and Band-in-a-Box reported a latency of 5 mS in the Audio Settings window.
With this setup, jumping around the song using the default mode "now" was flawless. Try adjusting your ASIO latency/buffer size. You need to do this in your ASIO driver control panel. 40 mS sounds high and may be why you're hearing the hesitation.
I also tested the default mode "next bar", and with that mode I can duplicate a problem with the RealTracks not going back/ahead properly in some cases - we'll report that.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Yes indeed, 40mS sounds like a very high figure for this.
Try changing your soundcard's settings with BiaB closed, then reopen BiaB and take a relook at the Latency number.
As an example, mine reads out at 7mS here.
I'd say that you are shooting for a figure of 12mS or under.
Don't be overly concerned with that "Best" quality stuff, be concerned with it working right, matter of fact I don't think the difference could pass a true blindfold A/B test at all.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
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OP
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Hello Andrew,
Hello Mac,
thank you very much for your helpful hints!
Here is, what I could find out up to now:
I was wrong in my opinion about the default setting of my keyboards hardware. I forgot that I changed from the default setting to a higher quality setting years before: 96 kHz at 24 bits. (This setting worked fine - before the conductor feature came up; and the sound quality was really fine!)
So I changed that setting to 44.1 kHz at 16 bits now.
But then next problem came up: the computer didn't recognize the keyboard any longer. I had to deinstall the driver software and install it anew.
And the next problem arose: installing the driver failed with this setting. An error report suggested to install the driver with a hardware setup of at least 44.1 kHz and 24 bits.
So this is my dilemma now: My hardware combination of computer and keyboard needs the 44.1/24 setting, but BIAB seems to only work fine with the 44.1/16 setting; at least for the use of the conductor feature.
With the 44.1/24 setting, and reducing the ASIO buffer size I'm able to push down the latency to less than 12 ms, though. With this setting my original problem became smaller. Sometimes the conductor even works without any problems, but I can't rely on that. For using the conductor feature in live performances I have to be sure that it works fine.
But, thanks to your help, I know now that the problem is not (so much) BIAB, but my hardware combination, and, the ASIO settings. I will continue to work on that. Hopefully I'll find a convenient solution. I will let you know then.
Thanks again!
Greetings from germany
Ulrich
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Maybe someone more tech minded that I can look here and figure something out. BTW, Can you switch to midi cable? http://www.roland.com/products/en/PCR-A30/specs.html
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Ulrich,
The important number is the 44.1 KHz.
If your soundcard is 24 bit, no problem should occur if you set it to 24/44.1KHz, BB should run at 16 with some extra zeros for the bit depth.
The best solution is to see if your soundcard's control panel has a setting that allows the host program to choose the bitrate. It may differ in nomenclature from manufacturer to manufacturer, but look for "unlocked" or someting to that effect. Then whatever host program you open should be able to set the soundcard for whatever the bitrate and depth are for that particular program.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Shoot
I can confirm the conductor is messing up.
I'm using MME, and 448 latency But it worked fine in 2010
2011, latest patch installed and jump ahead or back 4 bars using Midi or computer keyboard doesn't work. Jump to the end also doesn't work. Moving 1 bar, seems fine.
If you start in loop middle chorus mode Ctrl-Keypad-2 and do any ahead or back, 1 bar, it takes you out of this mode and play the song as normal.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Over two years ago, I reported a problem with Conductor. RealDrums was not following the Conductor if I had it set to anything but "Now" as the option. Midi drums would work ok, but RealDrums just blindly played through the song without following the Conductor. Blake, in tech support said it appeared that the problem did not exist in 2008(257) but came up starting in version 2008.5 and he reported it as a bug.
Two years later, in December 2010, Rob from Tech Support emailed me: "As far as I know, no work has been done on the conductor in the 2011 version. Your issue has been reported multiple times however."
They can send a man to the moon but they can't fix Conductor? I paid big bucks for BIAB specifically because I wanted to use the Conductor. Even if it's fixed in a future version, I won't get the fix. Anyone want to buy my copy?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 134
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I should mention that it's using the conductor using MIDI in that messes up for me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2011
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Newbie
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Newbie
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Has there been any fix to this issue? I have BIAB 2010 and would consider upgrading to 2011 if Conductor could be used reliably with RealTracks -for live gigs.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2009
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WOW! It's been over 10 years that I reported my share of problems in this post. Sorry about reopening an ancient thread, but just was wondering if anything was ever done about the problems in Conductor? Hate to buy it, retest it, find the bug, get a refund. Does anyone use Conductor successfully?
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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