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Hi all. Recently picked up a couple of Roland JV-1080 external hardware synths.
GM Bank works great with BB 2011 - Really low cpu useage and zero latency, my main reason for adding harware synths.
Having problems accurately playing upper bank patches and expansion card patches.
If you're using JV-1080 upper bank patches and expansion card bank patches successfully with BB, please read and reply.
Have tried all the Roland .pat files for the JV-1080 - as well as .pat for Roland GM, JV-2080, JV-1010.
Have read through the .pat files for info and tried writing my own .pat for the JV-1080. I've read all the .pat help and tutorials I can find. No joy.
Reading through the forums, there was a problem a while back with BB playing upper bank patches (which was reported solved with a patch update over a year back). Is it possible this problem still exists for some synths (JV1080)?
I've been trying to work through this for several weeks without success.
I'm wondering, is BB 2011 actually capable of playing the upper patch banks and expansion cards or do I misunderstand?
If someone has a working .pat for the JV-1080 which accurately accesses upper bank and expansion card patches I'd be most grateful to receive a copy. Any advise is welcomed! Thanks
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Yes, BIAB should be able to play those upper banks once you have a patch map that includes them. I can address them on my Roland Fantom.
If you can find a SONAR patch map, BIAB can convert it.
Otherwise, if you have the manual for your unit listing the patches in the appendix, it is not that hard to modify a similar Roland unit's patch map to make your own. It is tedious work, but not difficult work. Many of us had to do it in earlier days.
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Thanks for the reply, Matt.
The cakewalk tip was a good source to google. I found the .ini files for my jv's and the expansion cards.
I'm away from my DAW right now, but I'll have a go at converting the .ini files to .pat files and try them.
I did manually modify/write some .pat files for the JV1080. Yea, tedious. When selecting the higher patches through biab, sometimes they changed and the instrument sounded as expected (GM and User), most often the instrument which played was obviously not the instrument selected in biab from the "+" pull down menu.
Reading through a sonar forum from a google hit, they were writing that - in sonar - one needed to create a default multitibral template on the first performance bank within the JV-1080 unit itself to access the higher banks. And making some sonar specific setting and some JV specific setting for the two to communicate.
Is this also the case with biab? Any clue what setting are needed in biab or on the Roland?
The documentation on GM with desktop daw in the Roland manual is sketchy. It states to place the JV-1080 on GM mode (shift > GM). I get all the familiar GM patches and (many, not all) GS patches selecting those from the "GS" button on biab gui.
Does the JV-1080 need to be in a different (Performance?) mode to access the higher patch banks and expansion card patches and select the instruments through the biab gui interface ("+" pull down menu)?
....I'm not even going to ask about getting the JV-1080 working with RealBand. Yet.
Thanks in advance.
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Since I don't know the JV-1080, I can just comment based on my experience with the Roland Fantom and the Edirol units I have used. If you are able to hear MIDI chords in GM mode, then you have set the correct mode for the higher patches as well. The other mode is for solo use (one voice alone). On my Fantom, the correct mode for BIAB is Performance.
In BIAB, I do NOT send GS or XG on startup (in the GM menu, Roland GS or Send MIDI Message). Nothing is checked for Send or Auto-send.
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The JV-1080 may indeed need to be set to a certain mode to work reliably. I'd try paying attention to that.
As for Realband -
You may actually find Realband easier for this. Some users appreciate the Classic Tracks window where it is possible to simply enter the bank and patch numbers in a box. Also, RB patchmaps are in a different format than BiaB (especially when converted to the actual binary file patches.bin). So it's also possible you'll see different performance in RB in this respect. The two programs share a lot of features, but they are quite different in the programming. Don't be afraid to try it.
I know BiaB is better for certain approaches to creating a song and in some other aspects. But RB is just as capable in many other ways. RB, for instance, offers a much more intuitive editing of MIDI and Audio, and many more routing and FX options. MUCH more intuitive mixing. More control over the tracks. More Flexible Realtracks editing and generation.
So they are alike in some ways, but very different in many respects. They work hand in hand to get you from creation to finished product. Create in BiaB, finish it in RB. Lots of us go that route.
The cool thing is you get them both when you buy BiaB.
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks, rharv, it's encouraging that using the JV-1080 with RB may be easier!
Matt, thanks again for your insights. Hoping for a JV-1080 user to come along with a little more specifics on how to get the 1080 to play nice with BB!
cheers
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I'm sure there are people here who have knowledge on this. Hopefully they show up. Accessing 1080 patches should be easy enough.
How (exactly) are you trying to access the patches now?
Last edited by rharv; 04/29/11 04:30 PM.
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Hi rharv. Yes, hopefully, someone that's using the JV-1080 with biab will come along. I have a hunch I'm just missing something very simple here. I've been using softsynths previously and have just recently ventured into the hardware synth realm.
The scant 2 pages of instruction in the Roland manual about using the JV-1080 with a desktop computer system states to initalize the GM mode (press >shift>GM) "to play midi scores". This works fine for selecting the limited GM patch bank - 128 patches - through the biab gui. Of course, I'd like access the higher bank patches and expansion card patches through the biab / rb gui for another 1000+ patches.
All the JV's bank and exp card bank patches can be "demoed" directly from the JV's headphone output (or the audio outs into an amp) and pressing the vol button on the JV. Every 4 note demo plays ok. So they all work.
As mentioned before, I've tried all the appropriate Roland .pat files in the bb folder and on pg's .pat file page without higher patch joy. Some of these .pat files are written for a different exp card configuration, so I've also dabled with editing these. No joy in GM mode.
Don't know if it matters, but in configuring the synth in preferences, biab asks to select a .dk file from the pull down menu. There isn't a .dk for the JV-1080, so I've used "Roland Gen MIdi", "JV-1010", "JV-2080" and some others.
Recently, I downloaded and converted a cakewalknet .ini file to .pat. Essentially, the same result in GM mode.
(The converted cakewalk .ini > > .pat doesn't match my expansion card configuration, either and looks to have been somewhat edited/customized, so I know it will need further editing. Also, opening the converted patch file in notepad, it is formatted differently than the .pat available in the bb folder. It appears that there are several formats used for a .pat file.)
BUT, in a "Performance" mode setting on the JV, I CAN select higher patches through biab gui ("+") and many of the patches change - some sound close to what is expected, others are obviously not correct and some change (by default, I guess, when there is no valid higher patch?) to a regular GM bank patch.
At this point, it appears that I need to have the JV in "Performance" mode to access and select the higher banks through the biab gui. There are 64 "performances" that can be scrolled through with the JV value dial. They're all preset with different patches but I CAN select and change the instruments through bb gui - except the drums - though many of them are obviously wrong.
If I am on the right track with this theory, then what I need are JV-1080 settings required and how to enter those settings on the JV.
Google returned hits from a sonar forum where they were talking about setting up a "default performance mode" on the JV itself to use the JV with the sonar gui patch selection. If something similar is required for biab (/RB), that's the info I need.
Again, any advice will be appreciated, especially from JV-1080 users.
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Hmm.
I would also like to know the answer to Bob's (rharv) question: how exactly are you trying to access the higher patches now?
I select an instrument button in BIAB and then click on the little plus sign to the left of the volume box. First, you load the .Pat file (once) and then you should be able to select the desired patch from the pull-down menu at left. Do the same for each instrument.
I do NOT set GM mode on in BIAB or the Roland.
I DO set Performance Mode (not Patch Mode) on the Roland, and it can be set to boot up that way.
I do NOT select anything special for the .DK in BIAB; I just let it use the General MIDI. Granted, it has been many years since I cared about MIDI drums when I have RealDrums.
The Roland JV-1080 was very popular but was last produced ten years ago, about the time I started using Roland synths, so my knowledge that is based on their newer units may not be applicable.
Hope that helps.
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Quote:
The scant 2 pages of instruction in the Roland manual about using the JV-1080 with a desktop computer system states to initalize the GM mode (press >shift>GM) "to play midi scores". This works fine for selecting the limited GM patch bank - 128 patches - through the biab gui. Of course, I'd like access the higher bank patches and expansion card patches through the biab / rb gui for another 1000+ patches.
That is probably old info on using it in GM mode. Most Roalands need to be in performance mode to access extra banks.
If that synth needs a special performance mode set up to work correctly, you'll need another JV1080 user to help.
Accessing higher banks is most reliable using the MSB LSB changes to 'force' the synth to change. This info will be in the MIDI section of the manual. It may not be fun to read, but it is invaluable info. Labor thru the MIDI section of the manual and find what you need to make it work. Like I said earlier, some users like using the 'Classic Tracks' window because you can enter the MSB LSB info there easily.
Reading the manual should help make sense of this. There are two numbers that call up a bank (MSB and LSB - most significant byte and least significant byte) then the program number for that bank.
For example a patch in Bank 22 may use MSB 22 and LSB 1 plus the program change number needed for that patch. All this info will be in the manual if it's a Roland (in my experience anyway).
You can also enter MSB and LSB using control changes in the event list ... but you'll still need access to the info on the numbers needed from the manual.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Quote:
How (exactly) are you trying to access the patches now?
Quote:
I would also like to know the answer to Bob's (rharv) question: how exactly are you trying to access the higher patches now?
I select an instrument button in BIAB and then click on the little plus sign to the left of the volume box. First, you load the .Pat file (once) and then you should be able to select the desired patch from the pull-down menu at left. Do the same for each instrument.
Good morning. As you do; select an instrument button in BIAB and then click on the ("+") to the left of the volume box. Selecting an instrument in the resulting dialog box changes the patch. Also, entering the MSB, LSB and patch numbers changes the patch.
They are just obviously wrong in with the JV-1080 in GM mode. i.e., selecting a wurly results in a helicopter.
Quote:
Most Roalands need to be in performance mode to access extra banks.
If that synth needs a special performance mode set up to work correctly, you'll need another JV1080 user to help.
Yes, got that now, many thanks to you both, Matt, rharv. On the right track, now. At least, no longer beating my head against a wall trying get a pig to fly, e.g. higher banks working in GM Mode.
No JV user help yet, but I did find some useful info on the web also suggesting the JV must be in a "Performance" mode during 'multitimbral sequencing' to access upper banks.
That info was about recording each part of a new performance from a controller keyboard and saving that performance to a user performance preset. The writer stated it was best to select an existing preset performance which already has one patch to each midi channel, no layers, and modify and save it to a user preset. PRA-12 Pop Set was suggested as an ideal preset performance to modify.
I was able to adapt some of that info to modify PRA-12 to create and name a user preset and save it to a user destination. By changing another setting, the JV now boots to that preset if it was the last one used at shutdown.
With this modified preset, patch selection was more successful. (The .pat file I'm using still needs editing to match my configuration.) Navigating through different songs, many patches were changeable through the ("+") dialog.
Very encouraged with the progress, but......
Unfortunately, after turning the JV off and back on, it didn't work.
I overwrote USER Performance 1 (Techno). When I turned the JV back on, it did boot to the modified User Performance 1 preset and it did display the name I had assigned, but the instrument patches playing were back to the overwitten USER1 Techno performance.
$%^#*!
Ok. Each patch/part may need to be saved individually on the JV before saving the performance preset (?). I'll try it again today. I must have missed something.
Question. When opening a new file, the patches playing are the old Techno. Once (if) biab and the JV are correctly set, opening a new file should send a control change for those instruments saved in the biab song file, right? I have just assumed this is so....
Is there a setting for this I'm missing in biab?
I'm getting dizzy.
Seems like this may work, eventually, but if anyone out there has another (*easier*)method, I'd appreciate the course correction.
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Quote:
Unfortunately, after turning the JV off and back on, it didn't work.
In case it matters, you must also restart BIAB after turning off and on the Roland. BIAB must 'see' the synth when it starts, to have it listed in MIDI devices available. If you turn off the synth, you must restart BIAB.
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Quote:
Quote:
Unfortunately, after turning the JV off and back on, it didn't work.
In case it matters, you must also restart BIAB after turning off and on the Roland. BIAB must 'see' the synth when it starts, to have it listed in MIDI devices available. If you turn off the synth, you must restart BIAB.
Thanks Matt! Yes, that does make a difference. Solved one issue. Still working on the others. Thanks again.
Still open for additional guidance.......
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Quote:
Question. When opening a new file, the patches playing are the old Techno. Once (if) biab and the JV are correctly set, opening a new file should send a control change for those instruments saved in the biab song file, right? I have just assumed this is so....
Is there a setting for this I'm missing in biab?
You likely will not see the patch changes on the synth until you hit 'play' on BiaB. This is when it would send the patch changes via the MIDI out, not when it loads the file.. which is standard for any sequencer/DAW/accompaniment software. Makes sense, you may be loading one song while playing the synth as a segue, or still using it for another song in a live setting, etc. You wouldn't want the patches to change until the new song starts. As an even more 'in-depth' reason for this read on -
Say the patch in the synth has a flange effect to the sound. If it launched the sound when loaded, the flange may start it's cycling then, and depending when you hit play the flange may be at the top of a cycle or the bottom. Having the flange start when triggered by the sequnce ensures the cycle is replicated as desired.. even more true when you use the sequencer to contol an effects module. Nice to know how that effect is going to sound when you need it. We used to 'time' the patch change on both a Boss SE-50 and Yamaha FX-500 effects modules for this reason when using a computer for the click (and lights and video etc).
Last edited by rharv; 05/01/11 10:56 AM.
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Quote:
You likely will not see the patch changes on the synth until you hit 'play' on BiaB. This is when it would send the patch changes via the MIDI out, not when it loads the file..
Right. So, just like using a vsti softsynth, it is expected that loading a saved biab song, then selecting "play" in the biab gui should load the correct instruments from the style (or the instrument presets previously saved in a biab song) into the JV? Same with "replay", right? (except that "replay" doesn't regenerate the biab arrangement) Thanks
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I do NOT set GM mode on in BIAB or the Roland.
I DO set Performance Mode (not Patch Mode) on the Roland, and it can be set to boot up that way.
I do NOT select anything special for the .DK in BIAB; I just let it use the General MIDI.
Check. Thanks Matt
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Quote:
it is expected that loading a saved biab song, then selecting "play" in the biab gui should load the correct instruments from the style (or the instrument presets previously saved in a biab song) into the JV?
If they were saved with the song, and in the performance mode of the JV, yes.
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Quote:
They are just obviously wrong in with the JV-1080 in GM mode. i.e., selecting a wurly results in a helicopter.
This sounds like there may be a numerical difference.
It might just be that your BiaB is set to send "Yamaha-based" Patch nubering scheme, which instead of the standard 001 (Grand Piano) to 128 (helicopter) uses 000 for the Grand piano and 127 for the heli.
If your BB is set to Yamaha or "zero based" patch numbers, it can be confusing as some patches will seem to be playing fthe right instrument but others will be as you have observed.
Inside Band in a Box, under the GM menu, make sure that you have it set to Roland based 1 - 128 and not to Yamaha Zero based. That might be what is happening.
BTW - the helicopter is part of the standard GM bank. If you have tried to invoke an Upper Bank and still are hearing the heli, that is a clue. Shouldn't be any heli on any upper bank.
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
They are just obviously wrong in with the JV-1080 in GM mode. i.e., selecting a wurly results in a helicopter.
This sounds like there may be a numerical difference.
It might just be that your BiaB is set to send "Yamaha-based" Patch nubering scheme, which instead of the standard 001 (Grand Piano) to 128 (helicopter) uses 000 for the Grand piano and 127 for the heli.
If your BB is set to Yamaha or "zero based" patch numbers, it can be confusing as some patches will seem to be playing fthe right instrument but others will be as you have observed.
Inside Band in a Box, under the GM menu, make sure that you have it set to Roland based 1 - 128 and not to Yamaha Zero based. That might be what is happening.
BTW - the helicopter is part of the standard GM bank. If you have tried to invoke an Upper Bank and still are hearing the heli, that is a clue. Shouldn't be any heli on any upper bank.
--Mac
Thanks for the advice, Mac. Yeah, the gobbedlygook that passes for a Roland Manual states to place the JV-1080 in "GM Mode" for midi score playback. Wrong. Wasted a lot of time following that instruction. The upper banks can't be accessed accurately in the JV's "GM Mode". The JV must be in "Performance Mode" for multitimbral playback from higher banks.
None of the .pat files or converted .ini files I found worked correctly in my JV (most appear to have been customized by their creators for their own patch / expansion card configuration). Some ZEROBASED, some "1" based. With trial and error, I spent much of the day yesterday creating a "1" based .pat file that works for my JV's 4 banks, and three expansion cards. I can now access all patches on each bank accurately from the "+" menu dialogue box. Finally.
A question for anyone - Matt, rharv, Mac - anybody.
Still apparently need to figure out how to correctly save the parts / patches in the default user performance I have created in the JV as a template for sequencing with Biab (Oh, NO! Back into the dreaded $#@%& Roland Manual).
When opening a bb song file and selecting "play" or "replay", the patches from my biab song file aren't getting to the JV:
Turn on the JV-1080 (set to boot to the "Performance Mode" template I created)>
Open Biab>
Select "Play"/"Replay =
The patches from the JV USER performance 1 play, not the patches I saved with my biab song.
I can select each instrument from the bb gui> select "+"> select the patch I need from the drop down> change the instrument patches manually one at time = plays fine.
I'm expecting the JV to receive and play the patch settings from my saved biab song when I select "play" / "replay". But it's not. Am I overlooking some setting in biab? Or some JV-1080 setting?
Thanks again, gentlemen. I very much appreciate your guidance.
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Take a look in BIAB at Alt+F2, which is File, Save Song with Patches and Harmony. Make sure all the left-hand column checkboxes are checked, and the Save All Settings With Songs checkbox in the upper right is checked.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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