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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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OP
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Again we have more Jazz then Rock and roll. We need more 60s, 70s 80s, rock music for the baby boomers. I know people in bands that like the layout of PG but there is nothing to support the music. Mason and Wilcox are good but don't fit styles for rock and roll. PG could recruit a lot of business if they would start thinking of the boomers coming now......I hate to say that jazz for boomers is not there. Let's bring some real rock into the PG world............Please no negitive opinions, I have a habit of getting testy. Thanks. 
Critter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi critter, You should post this under the Styles Wishlist forum found at the below link. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7PG Music have often introduced things into BIAB because it was in the Wishlist forums. Worth a shot  Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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A few years ago, I started requesting Bluegrass and Gypsy Jazz styles be included in the next round of RealTracks and that is exactly what I received on later updates.
Requesting new styles does work, though I am sure it takes awhile to get any new RealTrack styles ready to be released.
Give it a try
BIAB2024
Windows 10 Pro
WA6NCB
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I totally agree with this request but there are problems with it. So many classic R & R songs from that era are full of song specific licks that PG cannot include because of copyright issues. Just off the top of my head, Hotel California, Satisfaction, anything by Steely Dan, Long Train Runnin, Suzy Q, the list goes on and on. There's not too much there that PG could put into a style without running into legal problems. The basic rock beats from those songs to jam over we already have, it's all the cool parts that are missing. Notes has the same problem. He has some great styles that fit certain classic songs without those specific well known instrument parts. Those you have to play yourself.
There have been so many threads about copyright I certainly don't want to get into it again but the basic rule of thumb is if there's an instrument part that when you hear it you instantly can identify the song then that's covered by copyright and you can't use it like the intro to Satisfaction for example.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
I totally agree with this request but there are problems with it. So many classic R & R songs from that era are full of song specific licks that PG cannot include because of copyright issues. Just off the top of my head, Hotel California, Satisfaction, anything by Steely Dan, Long Train Runnin, Suzy Q, the list goes on and on. There's not too much there that PG could put into a style without running into legal problems. The basic rock beats from those songs to jam over we already have, it's all the cool parts that are missing. Notes has the same problem. He has some great styles that fit certain classic songs without those specific well known instrument parts. Those you have to play yourself.
There have been so many threads about copyright I certainly don't want to get into it again but the basic rule of thumb is if there's an instrument part that when you hear it you instantly can identify the song then that's covered by copyright and you can't use it like the intro to Satisfaction for example.
Bob
I hear what you're saying loud and clear but there are ways around almost everything. Satisfaction, for example. The "signature opening lick" EE E GbG etc. was Richards playing a single note "melody line" which makes it POTENTIALLY subject to copyright protection and the "signature" nature of that riff pretty much ends all arguments.
BUT....I don't think there could be any assertion of infringement if there was a CHORD PROGRESSION such as E E EE G etc. while letting a live player play the lick including the EE EGbG etc. slur type lick over it.
So, there could be a "satfac" style with CHORD changes that would fit the tune...for all intents and purposes without running afoul of copyright issues.
Ditto for Hotel California's 7 chord progression which famously coincides SO closely to Jethro Tull's "We Used to Know" a band that the Eagles toured with BEFORE Hotel was written!
If there ever was going to be an infringement suit over a chord progression that would have been an ideal candidate.
It is the EMBELLISHMENTS of the HC progression that would land you in a federal court if you wrote a song based on BOTH the changes and the single note embellishments.
I haven't looked into the relative proportions of the BIAB styles but the poster is right in the sense that the latest data show thar rock albums outsell the next genre )R&B 2-1. 1.4-1 for Country and 10-1 compared to jazz, "electronic" and classical.
So, if the rock style proportions don't fairly closely resemble actual album sales then I would agree that PG is making a marketing error.
Here are the 2011 sales by genre stats for anyone who is interested.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/188910/us-music-album-sales-by-genre-2010/
Regards,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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av84fun,
Thanks for the info on JT's "We Used To Know". I call myself a Tull fan but have never heard this song until tonight. Great Song. It was interesting to hear Ian (I think) speak about how they should be compensated by the Eagles in their Cardiff 1996 YouTube video. Good stuff indeed.
BTW, more R n' R styles would definitely be appreciated by me too.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It seems to me that there already are "Stones" and "Eagles" Realtracks styles available. OK, I grant you that there are no styles that specifically sound like "Satisfaction" or "Hotel California" - but...
But yes ... post some ideas in the Styles Wishlist. It could be that Rock is being ignored because it is the "elephant in the room" - being the biggest selling musical style over the last 40 years or so - and maybe most people haven't thought of asking more Rock styles (thinking them to be too "obvious" or something).
Maybe I can think of a few suggestions myself. Be nice to have a drummer who could play in the style of "Ringo circa the White Album" or "Charlie Watts" just for starters. Or maybe some pseudo-Hendrix guitar styles...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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OP
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I thought that graph was very interesting, I realize Pg has to offer a wide range of genre to entice all would be or potential buyers but seeing the chart I think rock needs a fair shake. I have written original songs and have played them for people I know in bands, all are cover bands, and they all like the PG format and how it puts it together. Problem is there is not enough rock real styles to perk the interest of the band members. These band members are from four bands that play Milwaukee and surrounding areas. Right there you have at least 20 new sales. these bands are picnic and larger function guys, in the summer at picnics the average pay for the bands are $3000.00, and also draw large crowds. For me the main problem is the lead guitar, which nine times out of ten I have to use a very old lead guitar player, I think it is "422" which is really for blues but for some reason it plays the rock leads very well except every song basically sounds the same, kinda like having Slash play all the time. Brent Mason never fits without some sort of country vibe to it, Wilcox always sounds too bluesy. I posted on wishlist but I doubt anything will come of it, I've done it before, but I still think it's time to add a lot more rock based realtracks.
Critter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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I am replying to my own thread so if anyone is interested they can look up the bands I am talking about. these bands have cds etc. with cover songs, so how do they get away with that? Anyway..........remember they are all Milwaukee Wisconsin bands, so when looking for websites make sure that is included.... The Doo Wopp Daddies The Toys Road Trip Oil Can Harry After being in bands for years I know a lot of people from them and at one time or another played with them. 
Critter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
I thought that graph was very interesting, I realize Pg has to offer a wide range of genre to entice all would be or potential buyers but seeing the chart I think rock needs a fair shake. I have written original songs and have played them for people I know in bands, all are cover bands, and they all like the PG format and how it puts it together. Problem is there is not enough rock real styles to perk the interest of the band members. These band members are from four bands that play Milwaukee and surrounding areas. Right there you have at least 20 new sales. these bands are picnic and larger function guys, in the summer at picnics the average pay for the bands are $3000.00, and also draw large crowds. For me the main problem is the lead guitar, which nine times out of ten I have to use a very old lead guitar player, I think it is "422" which is really for blues but for some reason it plays the rock leads very well except every song basically sounds the same, kinda like having Slash play all the time. Brent Mason never fits without some sort of country vibe to it, Wilcox always sounds too bluesy. I posted on wishlist but I doubt anything will come of it, I've done it before, but I still think it's time to add a lot more rock based realtracks.
Those are some great picnic gigs pardner!!!! In Nashville, LA...Austin and LOTS of other places, there are world class musicians playing 3 hour sets for a hundred bucks a man...sadly....TONS of them.
$3k is for fairly large weddings and corporate events. Things gotta be hummin' in Mwaukee!!!
Regards,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
It seems to me that there already are "Stones" and "Eagles" Realtracks styles available. OK, I grant you that there are no styles that specifically sound like "Satisfaction" or "Hotel California" - but...
But yes ... post some ideas in the Styles Wishlist. It could be that Rock is being ignored because it is the "elephant in the room" - being the biggest selling musical style over the last 40 years or so - and maybe most people haven't thought of asking more Rock styles (thinking them to be too "obvious" or something).
Maybe I can think of a few suggestions myself. Be nice to have a drummer who could play in the style of "Ringo circa the White Album" or "Charlie Watts" just for starters. Or maybe some pseudo-Hendrix guitar styles...
I'm sure you're right (I don't have BIAB booted up on my other puter right now.) But I would assume that there are enough that with the right chord changes and the use of dots and muting certain instruments in certain measures a TON more rock "styles" could be cobbled together by us users.
Heck...Keith fell asleep in a Chicago hotel room after he "toyed around" with the now iconic signature lick in Satisfaction...which HE intended to be a horn section!!! In the studio, he used a Gibson Maestro fuzz box into God knows what amp (a Champ????) because he was just "sketching" the line for horns. (-:
But he got out-voted by the other band members and the producer...and the rest is history!
A really interesting book could be written about how acts of "genius" in the arts and sciences were actually either blind luck... pure accident or aggressively fought AGAINST by the "genius" in question!!
George C. Scott (I happen to know for a fact) was AGGRESSIVELY OPPOSED to the inclusion of the now legendary opening scene of Patton with him standing in front of the American flag!!
He felt the scene was SO powerful that the film would have no place left to go. How wrong was THAT!!!!
(-:
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't think that pg is going to put a lot of resources into rolling a style file that is actually only good for one cover song. That may be my take on it, but think about that for a minute.
On the other hand, BiaB has had the MIDI to Style Wizard available for several years now, consider finding a good MIDI file of your target cover tune, convert to MIDI style and then load into your songfile, try adding a few RealTracks to that as well. I've noticed from the beginning of RealTracks that one or two RealTracks and RealDrums can make a MIDI style sound much more "realistic"...
--Mac
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Now that there's an on-line marketing department I can sleep at night.
On the other hand, sure I want ? and the mysterians to get pgmusic to make me 96 tears cover style, but I only play 3 of those summer gigs. I donate the money, it's usually a fund raiser anyways.
But I can play block organ chords with a G triad and then C7 triad 8 to the bar and everyone on the planet over 55 knows the song.
I think a few guys ought to google Oliver Gannon and Peter Gannon to see that this is not a rock and roll family. There is cross over, sure, but really.
It would take a very large business case to determine if the rock guys open the wallet, and then decide what happens then. In my experience a guy with a guitar shows up and wants you got give him a cable(s) extra for the floor do dads, and then retune the darn band to his axe. Then all night it's turn it up up up, drives me nuts.
Anyway, I don't need a huge rock band to play "Which way you goin' billy", or "Blowin in the Wind."
I don't get the business case. I just see struggling guys with old pickups and a guitar showing up at someone's farm for a 'party'. They keep every nickle of the 100 if they get it. Spend in on Band in a Box?
Maybe your upper middle jazz cats are a better market. I never spent a lot of time thinking about it.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
In my experience a guy with a guitar shows up and wants you got give him a cable(s) extra for the floor do dads, and then retune the darn band to his axe. Then all night it's turn it up up up, drives me nuts.
John, you obviously had the wrong guitarist for the job! We are not all like that, trust me!
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I, too, would like to see more classic rock RTs. I have asked for this in the wishlist a couple of times but so far no joy. I'm particularly interested in some 'Psychedelic' styles like early Jefferson Airplane, The Byrds, Jimi Hendrix etc. I hope that we get some soon.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Quote:
In my experience a guy with a guitar shows up and wants you got give him a cable(s) extra for the floor do dads, and then retune the darn band to his axe. Then all night it's turn it up up up, drives me nuts.
John, you obviously had the wrong guitarist for the job! We are not all like that, trust me!
Never even met one of those dudes. The only "problem" I had a while back was when we hired a sound guy to pull a "live" 10 song album off a gig...where the CDs would ONLY be sold at gigs (with Songfile licenses) so REALLY small quantities.
The guitar player who had played in the band a LOT of times...waited until a few minutes before downbeat and announced he wanted "master scale" for the gig.
He was a key player for the gig that night so I had to agree...but that was the LAST gig he ever did with us so he ended up a loser big time.
(-:
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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I too would like to see some more good rock realtracks. On the other hand, as earlier stated in this thread, for a great majority of the classic rock songs, the signature riff defines the song. I have found that in most cases (at least according to my ear) I can arrange for example a CCR tune, say "Born on the Bayou" using realtracks and being a guitar player will add that signature riff that runs throughout the tune and wah lah, a very nice rendition of that tune (now if I could only sing like Fogerty!)
Todd
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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This is the classic point we try to make about Biab. It comes up continually. Biab is not for creating covers, it's for creating backing tracks, not the lead tracks. It's for you the player to jam with and it's up to the player to play those specific licks. The people who keep referring to classic rock songs are either not good enough players to do that or play the wrong instruments like me on keyboards. I can't play those great guitar licks but they're readily available if I want them badly enough.
Cover song backing tracks are available all over the internet as midi files or karaoke live instrument audio tracks. My sister does a lot of karaoke contests and I've heard some of those tracks. They sound exactly like the record, extremely well produced. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some of those karaoke parts were done by the same people who recorded them on those hit records in the first place, they just don't want us to know about it. For the cost of the Ultrapac you can buy a hundred of them and jam to your hearts content or do a cover band bar gig by yourself if that's what you want.
If you really want Biab to do this then all you need to do is spend the 5-7 bucks each or less in quantity, and buy the song you want either audio or midi and insert those parts onto either a Biab instrument track or the solo or melody track. What some of us did a couple years ago in Real Band was to insert the live recorded funky parts to a Christmas song by Spyro Gyra, can't remember the name now, into a RB generated version of the same song. It was all audio and using the pitch shifting and tempo matching abilities inside RB and some crossfading I was able to insert a great solo from the original recording right in the middle of the Biab tracks inside RB plus a really hot intro they did. This can all be done and it's not that hard.
Hip hop remixers have been doing this for years now and they've been doing it live. I did it as a studio recording but with a live DJ setup you can crossfade using your mixer and have both versions playing at the same time. Actually using live DJ software you can have many different versions of the same song playing at the same time but you're only hearing one at any one time by using either your on screen controls or a midi control surface. You can completely rearrange that song any way you want by creating loops of those parts ahead of time and punching them up at your discretion at the gig. Biab can easily be a part of that by creating some of those parts.
We already have the tools to do pretty much anything we just have to expand our thinking a little.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
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The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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