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Here is my good friend and teacher, George Bellas chatting about Counterpoint. You can image how this can liven a party  . But it is all good when George picks up the guitar and plays. By the way, Guitar Pro is a great leaning application.  http://blog.guitar-pro.com/2012/08/learn-counterpoint-with-george-bellas/“In Classical Guitar Etude in A Minor I used the multi-voice feature in Guitar Pro 6 (video) to compose a 2-part counterpoint piece in an 18th century style. Measure one commences the piece with a tonic chord that is embellished with an upper neighbor tone in the lower voice and then imitated by inversion in the upper voice at a time interval of one quarter, followed by two passing tones in the lower voice on the 2nd eighth of beats three and four respectively. Measure three progresses through the supertonic, tonic, dominant and tonic, with the voice leading staying true to period resolutions; 7th resolving down and leading tone up by step in the soprano. At measure four we arrive at the neapolitan resolving regularly to the dominant which is then followed by an imperfect authentic cadence. Measures four through six proceed through a simple diatonic harmonic progression, and then on beat three of measure seven the secondary dominant of the dominant is used as a modulatory device to lead to the dominant key. In measure eight we tonicize the new key and then progress through a series of harmonies that revolve mainly around the tonic and dominant. In measure thirteen what appears to be a picardy third is functionally used as the dominant of the home key to modulate back to A minor. The second to last measure is to be played with a ritardando and alternates between the tonic and dominant before finally resolving to the tonic with a perfect authentic cadence.”
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I think that counterpoint is one word.
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You just had to counterpoint that out, didn't you? 
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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And not at all pretentious.
ROG.
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I don't know if it's good or bad that I knew what "supertonic" meant.....
Let's see if I remember.....
tonic
supertonic
mediant
subdominant
dominant
submediant
leading tone
tonic
Whew... that took some brain cell mixin'.....
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Quote:
And not at all pretentious.
Ya, I can certainly see how it can come across this way. Music theory (or any theory) at its extreme can sound like a real geeky thing. But what is one to do who has studied an art for their entire life to a level of mastery which few can appreciate or comprehend. And by the way, this guy has over 20 albums of his material on label (and he not only writes this stuff, but also plays it on multiple instruments).
So I know you are not dissing him, and I certianly don't have to defend him. I just post this as a example of how far out this stuff can go.
Aren't we glad we have our day jobs.
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Quote:
I don't know if it's good or bad that I knew what "supertonic" meant.....
Let's see if I remember.....
tonic
supertonic
mediant
subdominant
dominant
submediant
leading tone
tonic
Whew... that took some brain cell mixin'.....
I am still at:
do
ray
me
fa
so
la
te
do
...and not entirely sure I even got that right. it it do or doh?, ra or ray?
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Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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And just to point out, George is not the only one who speaks in musicgeek ; "..The submediant is also in the same relationship to the supertonic as the supertonic is to the dominant, resulting in a descending series of perfect fifths known as an extended dominant relationship. And for Submediant voice leading: the third may be doubled, while the submediant is usually preceded by the mediant, tonic, or dominant and succeeded by supertonic, dominant, or subdominant..." - a simple google search Which brings me back to the house party where a group of these guys are chillin. There are a million musican jokes which come to mind. 
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Like when the tourist lost in New York asked the jazz musician "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" and the jazz musician answered "Practice, man. Practice."
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Quote:
Like when the tourist lost in New York asked the jazz musician "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" and the jazz musician answered "Practice, man. Practice."
This may be old, but always makes me laugh...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SURma5PlfGs
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Quote:
So I know you are not dissing him, and I certianly don't have to defend him.
Dan. Didn't mean to offend, particularly if he's a good friend of yours. It's just that when someone talks way over my head I wonder if they believe that I understand, or if they know I don't but are trying to impress? Hence, pretentious.
Having said that, the guy's obviously talented and I am impressed!
ROG.
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Your folks are so far out, its simply a privilege to
read and listen to your conversations. And be a tiny
part of this bigger picture.
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Some twenty years ago, when I did work for certain universities, I found myself having lunch with a group of music lecturers and an eminent visiting professor. This in itself was unusual for me, because anything to do with Music Technology was regarded in the same way as something which might have got stuck to your shoe - to be got rid of quickly.
The conversation, which was way out of my league, concerned Schenkerian Analysis of a student's composition. After listening politely for about ten minutes, the visiting professor said, "But was it a good tune?"
At the end of the day, isn't this what it's all about?
ROG.
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Quote:
...concerned Schenkerian Analysis of a student's composition. After listening politely for about ten minutes, the visiting professor said, "But was it a good tune?"
At the end of the day, isn't this what it's all about?
ROG.
Well yes, but! 
Yes, at the end of the day it needs to be a good tune, but the day is long and whats to do but study and analyze; WHAT good sounds like, and WHY does good sound - well good, and HOW can we make the next tune sound good.
I left the university many years ago, but a part of the academic approach still remains in my heart.
That is why I so appreciate the analytical study of music including the unique language (geekspeak) which is necessary to communicate between studiers of the art.
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Quote:
... Didn't mean to offend...
No offense taken.
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Interesting read. Scarery, I actually understood and enjoyed reading the analysis,(better count me in as a "theory geek" as well).
Seriously though, I enjoy the analytical side, it helps me understand why something doesn't sound quite right. I try to encourage students to compose so it helps to know how a piece evolves. Their composition tend to sound better if the progressions etc are good ones.
All knowledge is good, although it's been a while since I was heavily into Bach's counterpoint & harmony. (The ol' brain gets rusty if not used). A lot of students these days seem get to about grade 4 or 5 theory before it gets "too hard".
It's all music and isn't it great!
yjoh
[i]Music...a joy for life.
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I know I come across here as a bit of a philistine, or the archetypal rock musician, but in truth this is only part of the story.
I think being able to understand how something works is great and I like to do it myself wherever possible, but I don't like to see knowledge being confused with talent. A colleague who was heavily into esoteric theories, used to write music which was considered by all who heard it to be unsurpassed in it's mediocrity. Basically, he became so involved in the process, that he lost sight of the end product. When he was being honest, even he would admit to not liking it.
I like to walk the middle ground. Use the theory to good advantage, but don't let it detract from why we learnt it in the first place.
ROG.
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Journeyman
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Tonic?
May i have a Gin and tonic while you're busy?
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2022W + RB
M-Audio FastTrack C600, Rode NT2-A
Digitech VoiceLive 4
Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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Apprentice
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I suppose I can come across as being "pretentious" but it wasn't my intention. I teach theory so I guess it's a part of my mindset.
I do agree that, just because you know how it works in theory, it doesn't always translate to a great composition. It does help, but you still need to have the "talent" or the "gift" so to speak. You only have to look at Beethoven, knowledge and talent. Oh, if only...(sigh)
I went to a pre-exam meeting for teachers and the examiner for that year commented "just because a student can play a whole bunch of scales doesn't mean they are a good musician".
Says it all really!
yjoh
[i]Music...a joy for life.
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