|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
The way I have my cerebral cortex wired for the piano there are basically 2 things
1] Scale fragments. These include the whole scale - eg. perhaps a run at the end of a song
2] Chord fragments (inversions, voicings)
From these two bags of bits I fashion all my impro.
For a long time the 'standard' Alt chord (sometimes called C augmented, also writtne 'A+' has been thwarting a comprehensive pin down in my brain, but I am getting nearer figuring out why.
It's a peculiar beast, this post is helping my brain sort this out.
Of course there must be other ways of looking at this chord, but here is mine:
The conventional spelling for an augmented chord is root, major third, augmented fifth.
Let's think of it in a function or setting. Let's consider it at the end of a blues in F where plain old 'C7' would play the dominant role and 'C(7)alt' would be a dominant substution.
If one were to play a C7 alt as a chord, I think the usual thinking would include the root, major third, and the raised fifth (which I understand to represent the + bit of the chord symbol). Anyways that's what I am going with here.
The flat 7 remains the same in botha C7 and a C alt.
Now if one were to what is the most common scale used for this chord, my guess is that this would be the C 'Altered scale' (aka the super locrain scale, diminished whole tone scale).
Basically this is C 'major' with everything flattened except the root. (there are other ways of speeling this scale but I won't explore them for fdear of adding even more confusion. Some people think this scale has both a diminished and a raised fifth for example).
Let's write it out:
1st - C
2nd - Db
3rd - Eb
4th - Fb
5th note - Gb
6th - Ab
7th - Bb
8th C
Another way of finding this scale fingering is to think of it as a scale built on the Locrian mode of the melodic minor scale. This gives us the correct fingering, but sometimes not the correct function. What I mean here is that the altered scale can function as the Locrian (called superlocrian) of the melodic minor but it also functions elsewhere, in other contexts - particularlty as a chord sub for the dominant chord.
Note the presence of both E and Eb in this C scale
Some also say that it has both a diminished and a augmented fifth. It also has no perfect fifth.
Now looking at the chord the first note is the the Root - thats the easy bit. No controversy there.
Now the next note in a standard first inversion chord (major or minor) would be the 'third' least this is how I normally think.
Well, lets count it pout. The second is Db and the the third note is Eb - on other words a minor third in contrast to the major third used in a C+ voicing.
The next note of a typical major or minor chord (triad) is the fifth. This is Gb (in this spelling) which I frequentlly think of as the diminished fifth, again not present in the C+ (C aug) which raised 'fifth' which in this reckoning is actually the sixth note of the scale.
So my conclusion is this:
A C+ chord is Root, fourth and 6th note of the Altered scale
note of the Altered scale
What sounds Good?
Now, when I play this chord, I find I can get away with all sorts. I can even get away with imposing a perfect fifth (which would technically be G sandwiched between f# and Ab) and often this sound sonorous and firm. Try playing a straight dominant 7th chord andd see - it works IMO.
I find this to be an intriguing musical thought. To me I think this is because the fifth is sonorous over any chord - even when sandwiched between two notes a semitone down and a semitone up.
Rule: (my rule) where you can play a note you can probably get away with the fifth above.
Now, taking the alternative approach, can you play the actual root third and fifth of the Altered scale?
Well, this gives a 'minor diminished chord'!!! You don't hear them mentioned often!
But, to my ears this works too - maybe up an octave. Its true though, the lack of the 'flat sixth' make a difference
.
Thw role of the alt chord functioning as a dominant seventh is to add extra tension so breaking rules is OK
So, you see for this chord, (in my weird brain) thirds are really fourths and fifths are really sixths !!!! ???
It's a strange Alice in Wonderland world! The Altered reality of the Altered chord.
Last edited by ZeroZero; 01/23/13 03:35 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_chordHere's one explanation of the X alt chord. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
For a long time the 'standard' Alt chord (sometimes called C augmented, also writtne 'A+' has been thwarting a comprehensive pin down in my brain, but I am getting nearer figuring out why.
Stop right there, the ALT chord is kind of like a "your choice" situation.
ALT chord can contain the b5 OR the #5 in it, sometimes even the b9 or #9. The dom7 can be used as well in certain instances.
It is not always simply an Augmented chord, if that was the case, why have the ALT designation, you could simply go with Aug or X+ and be done with it.
If you open some BB songs with the ALT chord designated, and watch what the keyboards play or what the notation shows, you will soon find out what's going on here.
Use of the BB Scale Generator can also show you some ways to do scale work over the ALT chords in those songs.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 191
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 191 |
The article Ray put up is really good and as Mac has pointed out the altered note could be a semitone up or down.
ZeroZero, C aug or C+ chord will only ever be spelt as C, E and G#. I understand your way of thinking of C+ is the root, fourth and fifth of the altered scale but it only sounds the same, enharmonic equivalents that's all.
yjoh
[i]Music...a joy for life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,662
Posts735,544
Members38,532
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean