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I have 12 midi tracks that I want to volume fade at the end of my song. I can use the event list or the piano roll to fade each track seperately but is there a way to lock all 12 tracks to their pre-fade volumes and then fade them together?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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RealBand
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Often better to do the fades after doing a mix to stereo wave file. (or mp3, or mp4 or whatever)
Or you can position cursor at start of fade.
Open Mixer
Hit the record button on the mixer window to 'record mixer moves'
Then use the 'All fader to fade all the tracks out.
Hit Stop on main window
(you'll learn CTRL+8 keyboard shortcut to open mixer window again)
Set All fader back to full
Rewind to before the fade and hit Play
You should see all the track faders move with the same fade you recorded with the All slider.
It's weird to some, as on playback the fade happens per track (and the All slider stays put), but when you recorded it you used the All slider...
I like this solution as it allows resetting the main volume and the recording from the All slider just gets written to all the tracks.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Thanks Rharv, gave it a try but had a problem. I highlited all the tracks that I wanted to work with, hit the mixer record button and slowly pulled the ALL fader down. Moved the ALL fader back to full and rewound to the start of the fade. Rather than being a smooth fade across all track, its jerky, the fade is bouncing up and down on each track, independent of each other...rather than being smooth and gradual across all tracks. It does fade, just not smoothly. Wonder if its because I'm using a TrackBall rather than a mouse?
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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RealBand
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Maybe it's the trackball, dunno, works OK here.
How does it actually sound?
Maybe the video card is just displaying the sliders poorly (?)
the actual written MIDI should be pretty smooth though.
Keep in mind, they won't all be in line (unless they all started that way) as they fade, because 1 track may be fading from 80% to zero and another starting at 100% volume and fading to zero over the same time span.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Actually, it was very choppy across all the tracks. Individual tracks and their sliders, although decreasing in volume, were jumping up and down...perhaps as you mentioned a video issue. Nonetheless, found it frustrating, at least visually, and tried your suggestion on another tune...no problems on that one. So went back to my backup copy of the original tune and will be starting over with that and working your procedure into that one. Thanks for the help on this one Rharv.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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RealBand
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I too prefer to Fade at the Audio stage. However, I used to record directly to tape from Midi output in the early days and used the following method for fades.
Highlight the region you wish to Fade.
Select a Blank Midi Track and give it an unused Channel Number say 16.
Select Edit > Fill. The Fill Panel will be mostly completed.
Enter 100 for start value (this should avoid sharp increases in volumn at the start of the Fade).
Enter 0 for the End Value.
Press OK
Enter the Controller Number as 11 (Expression) or 7 (Volumn) - I prefer to use 11 so as not to overide the Mixer Track Volumn.
Press OK.
Highlight the whole Track, Copy and Paste (don't forget to use the Merge Option) over the main track and check to see that the results are suitable. If not try Undo and try again.
When happy with the Fade, Copy the Test track and Paste over all the other tracks.
This gives a very smooth linear fade. I hpoe this helps.
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RealBand
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This is an interestng method, more mathematical, which works for my brain rather than trying to evenly scroll mouse over 5 to 7 measures. Does raise a question:
1. When you do the final copy and paste, could you paste that into multiple tracks at the same time or do you have to do it one track at a time?
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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RealBand
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Here's another approach:
Assuming your tracks are audio (and if there are midi tracks, they are bounced to audio...recommended).
1. Duplicate your tracks (meaning copy just in case you can't undo or undo should fail) and mute the tracks you don't want to modify.
2. SELECT (using the mouse) region on the first track you want the fade-out on (e.g., the last 6 bars), then
3. SELECT the remaining tracks (this assumes you are either selecting the duplicate or original tracks, but not both)
4. From the Edit Menu, SELECT (Audio Effects, Gain Change, Fade-Out (from the pull-down menu), under the Variable Gain options to the right, SELECT Fade Out, or adjustable fade and set the Start Gain and End Gain percents as desired.). The Fade Out (non-adjustable) should give you a linear slope. You can also save the settings as a named preset and later use or modifiy to suit
5. CLICK Process (you can undo if you want to try different settings...but, I still recommend doing this on duplicate tracks ust in case).
NOTE: You can replace step 4 by RIGHT-CLICKING the selected track(s), scrolling down to Audio Effects, and then at the bottom you'll see Fade In and Fade Out (note the subtle division line just above these two options in this view, and that these options don't appear in the Edit/Audio Effects menu). Then SELECT the options you want as in step 4.
The benefit of using the Audio Effects method, is that you avoid inaccuracies introduced with human error interacting with the mouse/track ball.
What would be nice is to have a preset collection of curves (linear, forward slope, aft slope, etc., with the ability to see the line of the curve the ability to add nodes to the curve and pull/bend the curve as desired. I may put this in the wish list for Realband.
The reason I suggest bouncing midi tracks is that it reduces the processing overhead (which may not be a factor on many systems, but certainly reduces the complexity, since midi deals in velocity, while audio deals in gain, and the two fade Outs/Fade Ins must be handled differently.
Hope this is of use.
Richard
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RealBand
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I should have made a few clarifications in my previous post:
1. While I know you stated midi tracks, I don't know of a good way to accurately control the midi in Realband using presets, etc., when it comes to applying midi effects, such as fade in, fade out, and using envelopes (as in some other DAWs, such as SONAR). That's why I suggested bouncing (although for Realband, I should have refered to rendering the midi to audio, then importing the track(s) as audio tracks in the case of midi).
2. You can edit the events in the midi event dialog, but that would be pretty tedious and error prone.
3. Realband kind-of creates an envelope (meaning a when you select the region and apply in the case of audio tracks, the start and end markers are set for the effect).
4. The advantage of working with all the (audio) tracks as opposed to the stereo mix, is that you can control each track individually or as part of a group for fade out if so desired (e.g., gradual fadeouts of some instruments before others that eventually fade out toward the end bars)
5. In other DAWs, for example, you can record the movement of controls, such as faders, pan, etc., (record automation) for later playback (automation playback). In those DAWs, One can also edit the automation events visually or within the automation edit dialog.
Richard
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Hi MountainSide,
I can't remember, why not try that approach???
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Thanks guys appreciate all the help and suggestions. While bouncing to audio may help solve the direct issue, I prefer to stay in the midi world as the song is still in its development stage and changes are bound to come. Still evaluating the Rharv and LynB methods and looking for a way to streamline and address multiple tracks at the same time.
I tried to play around with midi event editing and although this was a good learning exercise, it's tedious beyond belief...would be interesting to be able to see multiple tracks at the same time in the editor rather than one track at a time. There you go, I'm right back at the same issue...looking to find a way to control the fade across multiple tracks at the same time. Rharv's suggestions solves that but relies on my ability to control the slope of the curve with my ability to move the mouse so much per unit time. LynB method addresses the slope mathematically but still trying to see if it can be "pasted" to multiple tracks at the same time.
Nonetheless, a good learning experience.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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If pasted to multiple tracks the MIDI channel may need to be Rechanneled. That's why I use the other way; done in one move and works here.
The Fill option is good sometimes but seems too tedious here. Besides, I may not want a mathematically perfect fade. I may want to start slower and/or end slower.
As far as seeing multiple tracks in the Event List, I think you can if you highlite more than one track before opening it.
Another method may be to use Piano Roll, selecting volume 'controller' in the first dropdown (Master Volume in second dropdown) to draw it in. Then I think you can copy/paste the fade to other tracks easily using right-click or CTRL+V and CTRL+C .. as long as you pay attention to the radio button selections offered up right away.
You'll want to 'Merge with existing' to keep the notes and add the fade.
Last edited by rharv; 01/27/13 11:26 AM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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I agree, using the event editor is tedious in its present form (see previous post) for the fade in/fade out type of edit. If there were some of the same functions for midi as there are in audio effects, that would be much better. Key fucntions would be the eequivalent of the audio fade in/fade out with presets/user presets. Section of multiple midi tracks (as in audio tracks) and region selection (e.g., last 8 bars, etc) is key. If not dedicated functions outside the event editor, then perhaps additional filtering with taper functions (i.e., fade) within the event editor dialog. There are times that I use (in other DAWs) a crescendo-to-decrescedno type of fade in other regions of a song. Perhaps a wish list item?
Richard
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I edited above; Piano Roll may be what you are after. ^^ (two posts up)
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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I've used the piano roll (mostly to check it out for some of the user related questions/posts), but (for me) it requires a steady hand with the mouse and/or multiple tries to get results (for me). Perhaps the biggest drawback to using the piano roll, is that it modifies the track data (as oppsed to applying a non-distructive effect, like automation would do). I was just trying to pose some different options for use with Realband, and perhaps initiate some wish list items. I really don't use Realband (longtime SONAR user), so I must admit I'm spoiled by the non-destructive edits/effects available there. Not knocking Realband, just trying to think of ways that users can do some of the automation or effects type functions using work-arounds. HB has however, come a long way.
Richard
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LynB....did run into an issue with your method while playing with it tonight....might just be me though....but perhaps this will help others trying to do this.....
1. I select the last 10 measures of my main trac
2. I set up a new unused midi track on track 16 and use "Fill" to setup an Expression CC fade in the same 10 measures of that track using data automatically filled in from the main track.
3. I then select the whole new midi track and hit copy.
3. Then I paste it, using merge, onto my main track.
In doing this, it adds the whole "new Midi" track onto the main track. In other words if the "new" midi track with the Expression cc fade in the last 10 measures is 50 measures long and I select the whole track and copy. Then I paste it, using merge onto my original track of let's say 50 measures...I end up with a new main track of 100 measures. Makes sense when I took the time to think about it.
However, if I just copy the last 10 measures of the "new Midi" track and paste with the merge function on any of my other tracks it works out fine. So the only difference then would be to not copy the whole "new" Midi track and trying to merge that.
Still, I find that I need to paste the CC copied event fade onto each track of my song but this is much easier than trying to do each track using the event list or, at least for me, trying to smoothly control my mouse using the record mixer function.
Guess I'm too much of an MS EXCEL spreadsheet user....sure would be nice to be able to highlite multiple track sections at one time and use the paste/merge function over all of them.
But really do appreciate your's and Rharv's suggestions, they'll save me a lot of time in the future and it was fun learning a new twist in RB.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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It sounds as though you did not select the START of the Sequence before Pasting - therefore you were pasting starting at the incorrect song position and consequently adding to the number of Bars in the song. Pasting to partial bars is OK providing you use the same start point for each track.
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Right...that's it. I was pasting to the area that I selcted in step #1: "Highlight the region you wish to Fade" rather than going back to the beginning of the original track. That clears it up....Thanks!!
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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