|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I call it, "being civil," Alan.
Freedoms come with responsibilites.
Maybe that's why we are losing them at an alarming rate.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598 |
@Allen
Coulda fooled me, bro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,342
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,342 |
Mac is the Voice of Reason in this discussion. And absolutely right.
There is only defense when there is an offending force. When the threat is gone you cannot continue the violence and still call it defense. You can however hold the (formal) offender until the law enforcement arrives to take over. Although it might seem like a good idea to beat or shoot the crap out of the bad guy, it is not the place of an civilian to be judge, jury and executioner.
And I feel the same as Swanman does when some stranger enters my house uninvited: That person is the enemy and a direct thread. He will be forced down and tie-wrapped asap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Does this mean I should contemplate locking my doors? I'd never find the keys. An insurance friend of mine convinced me last year to not put my keys for the car under the seat.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,342
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,342 |
Citaat:
An insurance friend of mine convinced me last year to not put my keys for the car under the seat.
And darned right he is! Your car will not start if you put your keys there 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280 |
Quote:
Not sure about over there, but over here its important that the body is back in the house .. means a lot to the law..
See when the intruder is in your house he is a threat
After chasing him down the street ; not so much of a threat. The victim became the attacker at that point
..I do understand your feelings though
Common myth about the body being inside your house. You can use deadly force to defend your life or others, no matter your location. Some states insist you must have no means of escape. True, chasing him down the street probably won't fly here either.
Like the man said, "ain't that a kick in the head!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280 |
Quote:
Unfortunately Danny, you would have plenty of time to do in depth bible study in jail.
A bad incident happened to a neighbor who lived right across the street from me in Hermosa Beach, California about 15 years ago. I heard a loud boom and shortly there were police all over the place. The residence is a big 2 story condo with a short driveway leading to the garage. Two armed guys broke in, tied up the wife, threatened them with a guns, took some stuff and while one of them went down to the driveway and sat in his Porsche, the other one was still inside but got separated from the husband. Somehow he went upstairs, got a shotgun he kept in a closet, went out on the balcony and shot the guy in the car through the windshield killing him and the other one ran away and was captured later. Being this is in very liberal California, there was a huge hue and cry about was this murder, self defense or what. It was all you heard on the radio for months. Finally, no charges were filed because the homeowner was still threatened by the other armed guy still in the house and the car was still in his driveway and the one in the car could come back in any time looking for his buddy. As I remember all the legal analysis, that was the key, there was still one armed perp in the house and the one in the car had his gun on him and could have come back in so it's justified self defense even in California. I remember all the bleeding heart types talking about the one in the car could have been trying to get away but he was in the passenger side, not the drivers.
That kind of talk is easy Danny, it's a very difficult position to be put in for sure, but you don't want to spend 20 to life in a nice comfy prison with these kinds of guys as roommates. I'm sure they would love to have some fun with a self styled vigilante. Not to mention, once the threat is gone or at least diminished then it is wrong, you're turning yourself into The Punisher.
Bob
But in the final verdict, seems the California court wasn't so "bleeding heart" after all.
Like the man said, "ain't that a kick in the head!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
It never went to court, he was not charged in the first place. I recall the DA's office was making noises that they really wanted to charge him but most legal commentators felt they would have a very hard time getting a jury to convict. The bleeding hearts were a collection of law professors, attorneys and others that were on all the talk shows, they really felt that the guy went over the line by shooting the one in the car from his balcony. I was leaning that way too until it came out that the second guy was still in the house with a gun at that point in time. That's a scary situation for a homeowner, no doubt about it. If the husband left the one in the car and went downstairs to confront the other one, now he's lost sight of the first one and has no idea where he is or what he's doing. I think he made the right decision by eliminating the threat he could see, then go and find the other one who wisely decided to flee the scene.
Now, lets say there was only one guy and he left the house and on the way out decided to check out the car. At that point, the homeowner is in a superior position with a shotgun on the balcony. He can just watch and see if the guy gets out of the car and takes off or looks like he's coming back into the house. If he heads to the street he has to let him go, if the homeowner shoots him anyway, that's a felony. If he made a move towards the house, he could let a blast go in the bushes and tell him to take off or the next one is his head. He would take off I think. The problem with killing him there in the driveway is proving in court he was coming back into the house.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 280 |
Quote:
It never went to court, he was not charged in the first place. I recall the DA's office was making noises that they really wanted to charge him but most legal commentators felt they would have a very hard time getting a jury to convict. The bleeding hearts were a collection of law professors, attorneys and others that were on all the talk shows, they really felt that the guy went over the line by shooting the one in the car from his balcony. I was leaning that way too until it came out that the second guy was still in the house with a gun at that point in time. That's a scary situation for a homeowner, no doubt about it. If the husband left the one in the car and went downstairs to confront the other one, now he's lost sight of the first one and has no idea where he is or what he's doing. I think he made the right decision by eliminating the threat he could see, then go and find the other one who wisely decided to flee the scene.
Now, lets say there was only one guy and he left the house and on the way out decided to check out the car. At that point, the homeowner is in a superior position with a shotgun on the balcony. He can just watch and see if the guy gets out of the car and takes off or looks like he's coming back into the house. If he heads to the street he has to let him go, if the homeowner shoots him anyway, that's a felony. If he made a move towards the house, he could let a blast go in the bushes and tell him to take off or the next one is his head. He would take off I think. The problem with killing him there in the driveway is proving in court he was coming back into the house.
Bob
I wouldn't stop firing until I was SURE everyone was safe.
Like the man said, "ain't that a kick in the head!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I just leave my car keys on the front seat.
Next to the Doberman.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
I kinda like the Texas law. Maybe you'll recall about 2 years there was 911 recording where a neighbor called and said there was someone breaking into his neighbors house and asked for the police.
He stayed on the phone the whole time and 20 minutes later the police still aren't there. He finally told the 911 operator that the thief was climbing out the back window with bags of stuff and that if the police didn't show up immediately, that he was going to shoot him.
The police didn't show up. The guy didn't hang up the phone. He just told the 911 operator that he was going to shoot the thief. He laid the phone down, (didn't hang up), and you heard a big boom in the the background. He came back on the phone, told the 911 operator that he had just killed the thief in his NEIGHBORS yard.
Turns out the thief was wanted for rape, murder, assault and burglary.
He was never charged. Deemed it a "righteous shooting".
Bob
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 12/22/09 05:15 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
Alan,
I agree with Swanman.
Your anti USA beliefs are shining through. Some of the reasons our forefathers fought and died were for the right to bear arms and to use deadly force to protect our families and property.
Bob
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 12/21/09 09:42 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
Alan,
Now's the time for you to make some kind of "cowboy" or "redneck" comment.
"Cowboys" and "rednecks" are part of what makes this country GREAT! Along with all of the other etnicites we have. Including Scottish.
LOL.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598 |
I do understand the premise of "proportionality". I mean, if i were to see some teenage kid running out of my garage with one of my stereo speakers, I'm not gonna hunt him down and shoot him. I'd report the theft and hope the kid gets caught. And , knowing me, I wouldnt press charges as long as i got the speaker back.
Unfortunately, those of us who were born here have grown up in a country that has been violent since it's inception. Because we have so many violent criminals roaming the streets, it stands to reason that the response is going to be similar for the sake of simple survival. I would agree in most instances, the doling out of punishment should be left to the authorities. But sometimes, circumstances come up that you have to make those brutal life and death decisions...for yourself and the bad guy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576 |
Taking the law into your own hands? If that's the case, where was the so-called law when the family was being attacked? Why was the perp allowed to go free? If he had not broken into those people's home he wouldn't have gotten hurt.
I see this sort of trash going on more and more in the liberal courts these days. Right is wrong and wrong is right, seems to be law now.
In Louisiana, we have the legal right carry a fire arm on our hip. Loaded. We have a shoot to kill law if we are being threatened. Even if someone leaves their car and comes at you then you have the right to tell them to stay put. If they don't then you have the right to shoot them, even if you don't have a witness. You still have to goto court. But these types of cases are usually closed.
If you believe that gun control is good then do you have a gun? If you goto purchase a gun you have to be finger printed and have a background check done on you. If a criminal goes to buy a gun he usually doesn't goto the local gun shop. he buys it off the street blackmarket. Usually stolen weapons. What good does gun control do for this sort of person?
Where do you suppose all this is going when states all over America are suddenly telling its citizens to arm themselves? What do you think they're telling them to arm themselves with? Paintball guns? Why are they telling them to arm themselves? Just for the fun of it? No. These stupid twisted laws that came into being after the 60's messed up everything. Now we're getting more and more central thinking people in office. Take the law into my own hands? Sure ... if there's no police around to protect me.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598 |
Last week, I think it was in Arkansas that a 70 old woman called 911 to report an intruder in her house and she was hiding behind her bed with a rifle speaking to the 911 operator saying how scared she was and can someone please come to her rescue. She was afraid she was going to die, as she heard the intruder comming up the stairs. The 911 tape was played on FOX ( which I usually cant stomach watching) and as you listen to her breathing heavily into the phone, trying to stay quiet, the 911 operator stopped talking too, as she was horrifyingly riveted to what might be about to happen. Just then, the old woman whispers into the phone that the intruder is about to come into the bedroom. ( this is at approx. 1:00 am) Then she whispers, voice shaking, that she doesnt want to kill him..and she starts praying into the phone over and over. Just then, you hear a loud "bang" and intruder dead.
Turns out the guy had been released from prison a couple months previous. He had done 15 years or so of a 25 year sentence for rape and murder.
Sadly, those stories are becomming more and more frequent. Happily, the bad guy got exactly what he deserved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 598 |
And, speaking of FOX, whatever happened to the good ole days when you could actually watch the news and what you got.........was news? I dont have a problem listening to someones political diatribes, ( freinds, bar aquantances, ect.) but it sure would be nice to be able to turn on CNN or FOX or MSNBC and get news as opposed to non stop political gamemenship. (" your guys are A-Holes"....."No, your guys are A-Holes") God love us Independants...."you're all A-Holes!!!" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576 |
Quote:
@swanman
The Inadequacies of your legal system are well known to most I suspect, but that in itself doesn't give anyone carte blanche to sidestep the law as it stands. The way to change it is to campaign for change. That's how the law evolves.
My 'diatribe' as you put it doesnt preclude the use of force and if you read it you would see that i'm not against self defence or even a pre-emptive strike in the case of being held captive and having to witness the extreme violence you mention. In an instance like that it would take a very hard-hearted jury or an extremely cynical and skilfull defence lawyer to successfully argue against mitigating circumstances.
Im only against the kind of indiscriminate use of force that can happen say when an intruder is making his escape having caused no physical harm or the kind of response that says any tresspass on one's property or home, armed or otherwise is grounds for killing someone. Is that so difficult a concept to take on board?
That's not pious equivocation, its called making a valid distinction
Regards
Alan
Nahhh! That's not making a valid distinction. That's just letting a thief get away. I say if he steals from you then you have the right to take him out. Oh give him/her a chance to halt and put the stuff down, then leave. But to just let a person steal your stuff? That's just plain idiodic to me. First of all, if a person broke into your house, that means he/she most likely broke a window or kicked the door in. That means he damaged your property. I'm one of those who believes in God's law. Read Deuteronomy 19.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
Quote:
He came back on the phone, told the 911 operator that he had just killed the thief in his NEIGHBORS yard.
Turns out the thief was wanted for rape, murder, assault and burglary.
Not quite, Bob. I know this is a simple music forum but lets quote the actual story, I followed this one closely too. You have it essentially right but here's the Wiki article about this: Wikipedia Note there were two guys, they were both illegals, they both had rap sheets and one had been deported but no rape or murder. Still, bad guys for sure. They did cross over onto Horn's property, he was watching them through his window or screen door and when he saw them come into his front yard, that's when he went out and shot them. I heard the 911 tape myself and the transcript presented in the Wiki sounds right to me. There is a "use deadly force to protect property law" in Texas as opposed to most states where deadly force is only allowed to protect life, not property. I thought this case was excessive and he should have been charged but that didn't happen. Horn has a large yard and he was watching them from inside his house with a shotgun. If they had turned and walked towards his house, different story but to go outside and shoot two people in the back who's only crime against him personally is trespassing? That's murder in my opinion. After he went outside, then the guys acted in a way that Horn felt in danger but he's the one who went outside and started the confrontation in the first place against the express opinion of the 911 operator. Common sense would tell anyone to stay inside but carefully watch those two.
I'm not afraid to shoot someone in self defense and certainly if they're in my house but this would be too much for my conscience. Even if I lived in Texas I couldn't do that but that's me.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Top story in our internet version of a newspaper is the DC cop who pulled his gun on kids having a snowball fight. Lots of kids. I'd have to start re-thinking my snow fort building skills if some one was going for a gun. Kevlar. He felt threatened. Kids in snow suits would be some easy shooting.
We were brought up that the only moving thing we could pitch snow balls at was the buses. And never the delivery horses, my bother threw a nice piece of horse## at the milkwagon horse when he was 5 and got a red backside. I still say that was a step up from eating it which he did for about a year....We kept the best pieces to use a hockey pucks.
Oh and the guys on other side of the pond might know this, but the cops in the US all have guns, not just staff sargents who keep it in the boot in a case with a lock. I think the even take the thing home, which is illegal here.
I am going to carry a gun (22 rifle) on Thursday night as we are having xmas eve and a few days in the cabin. No one will be within 20 miles or so, and there are lots of wolves. The rest of the family get long sharpened sticks, about 8 feet long. Leave here at noon so it will be dark when we get there around midnight. Should be able to shoot some partridge for lunch too. But no cell phone service, no power, no tv, and no fox news. (not that I watch it, we know they are organizing an invasion though).
Cultural differences....they do exist eh?
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,660
Posts735,521
Members38,528
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean