PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic World gone mad

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Nahhh! That's not making a valid distinction. That's just letting a thief get away. I say if he steals from you then you have the right to take him out. Oh give him/her a chance to halt and put the stuff down, then leave. But to just let a person steal your stuff? That's just plain idiodic to me. First of all, if a person broke into your house, that means he/she most likely broke a window or kicked the door in. That means he damaged your property. I'm one of those who believes in God's law. Read Deuteronomy 19.

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Hey, nice to see you guys are still friends.

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Swanman and I have had a few conversations on the PG forum and most of the time we've been in agreement. Just because we disagree about news channels or presidents doesn't mean that we can't be cyber friends. We've never met, but if we did I'd bet that we would slam a few beers and play a few tunes.

We all need to to get past the thinking that if we disagree, then we can't be friends.

That's what humanity is all about! We all are different. That's okay! Actually it's good. The world would be a really boring place if we were all the same.

We just need to accept each other and at times, we agree to disagree. It doesn't mean that we don't treat each other with respect.

So "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night".

Bob

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American culture is still completely caught up with its frontier myths of summary justice and rights gun ownership and this complicates the matter by tacitly encouraging vigillante style reactions that bypass the legal process and the rule of law. If America truly feels that the right to kill any person that intrudes on ones property whatever the circumstances or level of personal threat, then why does your legal system not reflect this? Could it be because the majority of people in the states actually feel this would be wrong?

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Yeah well maybe you should read the 6th commandment, 'thou shalt not kill' . Or why not try Jesus,.. 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Aren't you supposed to believe in that?

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Russ,
My definition of 'Gun Control'

Hitting what I aimed at! Repeatedly!

Gary

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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is right on TARGET!!!

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I find it sad that people should feel so unsafe that they feel they must carry weapons, concealed or not. Although as you point out you don't carry it all the time, it still amazes me. In Europe this is unheard of. If as you say gun ownership is on the rise, then some questions as to how a society can spiral out of control like that are allowed.

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On October 16, 1991, Hennard drove his 1987 Ford Ranger pickup truck through the front window of a Luby's Cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway in Killeen, yelled "This is what Bell County has done to me!", then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff with a Glock 17 pistol and later a Ruger P89. He stalked, shot, and killed 23 people while wounding another 20 before committing suicide. About 80 people were in the restaurant at the time. The first victim was local veterinarian Dr. Michael Griffith, who ran up to the driver's side of the pickup truck to offer assistance after the truck came through the window. During the shooting, Hennard approached Suzanna Gratia Hupp and her parents. Hupp had actually brought a handgun to the Luby's Cafeteria that day but had left it in her vehicle because laws in force at the time forbade citizens from carrying firearms. According to her later testimony in favor of Missouri's HB-1720 bill and in general, after she realized that her firearm was not in her purse but "a hundred feet away in [her] car," her father charged at Hennard in an attempt to subdue him but was gunned down; a short time later, Hupp's mother was also shot and killed. Hupp later expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person. One patron, Tommy Vaughn, threw himself through a plate-glass window to allow others to escape. Hennard allowed a mother and her four-year-old child to leave. He reloaded several times and still had ammunition remaining when he committed suicide by shooting himself in the head after being cornered and wounded by police. [1][2][3]

[edit] Victims
Fatalities from this shooting included:

Name Age Home
Patricia Brawn Carney 57 Belton, Texas
Jimmie Eugene Caruthers 48 Austin, Texas
Kriemhild A. Davis 62 Killeen, Texas
Lt. Col. Steven Charles Dody 43 Fort Hood, Texas
Al Gratia 71 Copperas Cove, Texas
Ursula Edith Marie Gratia 67 Copperas Cove, Texas
Debra Ann Gray 33 Copperas Cove, Texas
Dr. Michael Edward Griffith 48 Copperas Cove, Texas
Venice Ellen Henehan 70 Metz, Missouri
Clodine Delphia Humphrey 63 Marlin, Texas
Sylvia Mathilde King 30 Marlin, Texas
Zona Mae Lynn 45 Marlin, Texas
Connie Dean Peterson 55 Austin, Texas
Ruth Marie Pujol 36 Copperas Cove, Texas
Su-zann Neal Rashott 30 San Antonio, Texas
John Raymond Romero Jr 33 Copperas Cove, Texas
Thomas Earl Simmons 55 Killeen, Texas
Glen Arval Spivey 44 Harker Heights, Texas
Nancy Faye Stansbury 44 Harker Heights, Texas
Olgica Andonovsk Taylor 45 Waco, Texas
James Walter Welsh 75 Waco, Texas
Lula Belle Welsh 64 Waco, Texas
Iva Juanita Williams 64 Temple, Texas

[edit] Consequences
Reacting to the massacre,[4] in 1995 the Texas Legislature passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (Texas's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the Luby's massacre where both of her parents were shot and killed. Hupp later expressed sadness for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person.[5] Hupp testified across the country in support of concealed-handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996.[6] The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush and became part of a broad movement to allow U.S. citizens to carry concealed firearms.[7]

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Gary,
I find it sad that people should feel so unsafe that they feel they must carry weapons, concealed or not. Although as you point out you don't carry it all the time, it still amazes me.

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In Europe this is unheard of. If as you say gun ownership is on the rise, then some questions as to how a society can spiral out of control like that are allowed. Is it a real threat or are you being bombarded with newsreels 24 hours a day in a sort of brainwashing? All one sees on TV these days is violence either real or acted. I'm not saying that TV and film are the root cause of violence, but they play a major role in spreading its acceptance. In a country of over 200 million there are bound to be some evil people around, so could it be that the threat is out of proportion?

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Unfortunately in Europe the trend toward more violence is becoming apparent with the influx of immigrants from Eastern European countries. Maybe it is because they were recently at war with each other, but the level of violence in some of the Balkan and ex-Russian nationals is quite discerning. I doubt whether Europeans will arm themselves as Americans do because we don't have a tradition of carrying guns. Mind you I can't speak for the next generation. I must admit I wouldn't feel safe anywhere if I thought that the guy on the next table had a gun.
Maybe the world has gone mad.

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