Because that list is based on Spotify. Of everybody I call friend, maybe 2 use Spotify. And they are my age, 70-ish. A few use Pandora. Speaking only for me, I use none of them. Saying that just to say that not everybody listens to those streaming services. However, I am somewhat unique because I rarely listen to music at all. 50 gigs of music on a hard drive, 1000 CDs in binders... I rarely listen to music. I enjoy the silence far more than Snoopy Dog or Ed Sheeran or (gag) Justin Bieber.
I am also not among the number who kneel at the altar of Beato. He is extremely knowledgeable to be sure, but he has far too high an opinion of himself. Much like his pal, the self proclaimed guitar god Rhett Shull. That guy plays in a copy band and makes him money from Youtube. Beato continues to tout himself as a big time producer but has produced nobody of note. He talks about Parmalee as if he gave birth to them but produced one album for them before they became anything, He also produced some band called Needtobreathe. Shinedown. Crossfade. Seemingly a bunch of bands trying to become somebody who can't afford Dan Auerbach.
I point that to set up this analogy. I once hit 5 home runs in a game. That record has never been broken. I don't claim to be a notable home run hitter. I mean, that was high school. In 1969.
I guess he is highly regarded by mane, given the fact that his youtube channel has 2.76 million followers. He puts out great videos. Glitzy, shiny, perfectly edited... As far as being a producer, he isn't Rick Rubin, Linda Perry, Don Was, Max Martin, Jack Antonoff, Mark Ronson, Greg Kurstin... Remember that every kid with a laptop that knows how to make an 8 bar loop calls himself a producer there days. George Martin he ain't. Mutt Lange he ain't. Bob Clearmountain he ain't. He IS a guy who accepted that he wasn't going to be a millionaire from music and made his niche as a music educator on Youtube. It must work, as his net worth (depending on the metrics you believe) is about 2.9 million. My net worth... well, look at my signature file. My point is that he isn't the "prime time player" he seems to allege to be.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/26/2201:55 PM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
.................................... Seriously though, I don't think there ever will be a time that the top 200 streamed songs will outpace, ALL music from the all of the rest of time. Do you?
I would have to also say, it would be a complete reach to say old music is killing new music. Although, you may have additional information to change my mind.
......................
I think that the answer to that question and statement will be directly proportional to the age of the person answering. YMMV
I don't follow on this point. Why would it be?
I have a couple of reasons. 1-When I was a teenager old music was Lawrence Welk, The Andrew Sisters, etc. Now it is Elvis, The Beatles, the old blues players, Humble Pie, etc. Thus my definition of old has changed. If you asked a 20 year old they may think the grunge is old music.
2- If you ask me now I would say that old music is better than today's music. If you asked me when I was 20 I would have said today's music is much better. If you asked someone who loves rap they may say today's music is better.
Thus it is a matter of opinion and nothing else, i.e. what is old music and what is better music.
One last thing. Good music has no expiration date, regardless of what you call good music!
YMMV
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I'm taking a different approach to this by looking at the big cultural picture and not simply saying old music is better because...
The classic rock from the 60's and 70's was either directly about or inspired by the Vietnam War. It was all about anti-war protesting and was the single biggest thing influencing the whole country. That and the Playboy inspired free love and Timothy Leary with his LSD. Those things got woven into the majority of that era's classic music.
The reason it still has power now is they were written with a lot of sincere passion by all those bands. Passionate music wirh a clear message is what grabs audiences, and those songs inspired that whole generation. As an Air Force vet from that era I hated a lot of the lyrics but loved the music itself. As we all know it's hard to discern the exact words from listening to the record sometimes but eventually, I would figure it out and then discover that a favorite song was really a disguised protest song. I had to hold my nose about that several times while I loved playing the music itself.
The point is, there is no huge, single thing that galvanizes modern songwriters like the Vietnam War did. Eddie loves big bands and so do I. Same thing WW2 inspired them. The Great Depression inspired 30's music. The modern world is way too fractured for that to happen now.
This article mentions the Grammy's. The answer to that is obvious to me but I do not want to start a political argument here. All I'll say is modern Hollywood is turning off a majority of the country with their various political causes and they just can't stop themselves from inserting that into the program.
This article mentions the Grammy's. The answer to that is obvious to me but I do not want to start a political argument here. All I'll say is modern Hollywood is turning off a majority of the country with their various political causes and they just can't stop themselves from inserting that into the program.
Bob
I agree.
Last edited by MarioD; 01/26/2203:19 PM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I have a couple of reasons. 1-When I was a teenager old music was Lawrence Welk, The Andrew Sisters, etc. Now it is Elvis, The Beatles, the old blues players, Humble Pie, etc. Thus my definition of old has changed. If you asked a 20 year old they may think the grunge is old music.
I understand what you are saying. That's basically my opinion as well. That being said, it sounds as though the music industry, for tracking purposes, has deemed "old music" to be anything older than 18 months. It's not a preference thing. They have their definition of it for the sake of analyzing data. That's all I was trying to say.
Quote:
2- If you ask me now I would say that old music is better than today's music. If you asked me when I was 20 I would have said today's music is much better. If you asked someone who loves rap they may say today's music is better.
Thus it is a matter of opinion and nothing else, i.e. what is old music and what is better music.
I completely agree. Although, I frequently see people try to "prove" the music they like is better. For them, I'm sure it is. Many opinions are stated as facts. Of course that goes well beyond music.
Quote:
One last thing. Good music has no expiration date, regardless of what you call good music!
Right on!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
My parents listened to big band music, jazz standards done by orchestras. I grew up in the rock era. Their music was better than mine. More complex chord progressions, more intricate arrangements, and so on.
I liked my parents' music, but I liked mine better, even knowing it wasn't as sophisticated. So what if it only had the same three chords as the last song, it had the energy and passion that I desired.
I think rock music structurally was best in the psychedelic era with Yes, Moody Blues, ELP, Jethro Tull, late Beatles, and others. Complex arrangements and chord progressions with good melodies.
I also think a 4 or 8 bar loop with someone reciting poetry over the tip is structurally the worst music by definition, but a lot of people love it so it must be good in other ways, like the 3 chords of my youth.
But what is best for anyone to listen to, is personal.
There are only two kinds of music, (1) music I like to listen to and (2) music made for someone else's ears. And the music I like evolves through the years.
There is a lot of good music out there now, and a lot of trash. In that, nothing has changed.
I think the reason why old music is selling better is simply because music isn't as important and all-consuming to the current generation as it was to the older folks.
I think the reason why old music is selling better is simply because music isn't as important and all-consuming to the current generation as it was to the older folks.
The reason old music is "selling better" is because only old people still BUY music - whether that be CDs, vinyl or mp3 downloads.
And "music isn't as important and all-consuming to the current generation" is an opinion... based on what? Every young person I know owns a phone (no CD player or turntable or iPod) AND a pair of earbuds - which they seem to have in their ears most of the time. They have a music subscription...access to virtually any music that has ever been recorded. And every new release - the day it is released. They listen to music constantly. New music does not get BILLIONS of streams if that "current generation" isn't listening to music. (see HTL's Spotify list - and that is only one service)
I liked my parents' music, but I liked mine better..
Hmm ... for various reasons I never knew what was my parents' music, and I listened mostly to "Classical", but I never considered it my music.
I wonder if that made me a sort of homeless musical traveller. I was probably in my late 30s before I concluded that the common themes through most of what I actively liked and sought were jazz-ish. I've always imagined that it was the engineer in me that made me forever seek new territory, but maybe that's only a part of the story.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
In days of old, I would sometimes buy a CD, listen to a track or two, maybe play it all the way through once, then never play it again.
Great point. How many CDs do we all have with 2 songs we like and 9 that are "filler" tracks? The kicker there is that word "filler", because 10 of us could all buy the same CD and like 2 different songs.
My big turnoff to streaming is this. First of all my only exposure to streaming is Pandora. Years ago when they started. I got it, listened from time to time but quit because of this.
I typed in David Sanborn. I got two songs by Sanborn and then started to get other sax players. I don't WANT other sax players. I want Sanborn. If I want Grover Washington, another idol of mine, I will ask for Grover Washington. That same concept is why I will NEVER listen to the radio. 2 songs, 8 minutes of commercials, then 2 more songs that THEY choose for me. I have many gigs of music on a thumb drive in my car. My radio allows me to search by song title, artist, genre, etc. So when I feel like hearing Dr Dog, I can listen to the 15 Dr Dog songs I have. Then maybe Dawes. Then maybe Willie Nelson. On days I just want music of any kind I set it to random and it can randomly pick songs from those many gigs.
Does Spotify play JUST a selected artist? I hear people talk about their Spotify playlist. I don't know what that means in context. Do you have to add songs one at a time when they play? Do you specify artists? Also I don't live on my cell phone. I use computers for almost everything but phone calls. (Of course when I am away from home I use it for other things, but so many people use their cell phone in lieu of a computer and I don't know why anybody prefers reading that tiny screen and pecking on the screen like a chicken eating grain.)
I also don't like having to create accounts for everything. Every time you do that exposes you to the inevitable security breach where your information is stolen, or as often happens, greedily sold to mass emailers.
Floyd also made a good point about young people not buying music because they stream 24/7 and sales is one of the major metrics used to form a perspective of old vs new. What is selling and what is not.
A lot factors into it. Bands now make so much money so fast that after a few years they consider that they may have milked their audience to the point where they are dry and then branch out into new projects so they can start the milking process again. They (sometimes thankfully) don't stay together long enough to get old and put out weak reinventions of their former self and play the nostalgia tours. (see: REO Speedwagon, Journey, Styx... there comes a point to let it go.) So music doesn't have a chance to get "old" anymore. A lot to consider in this discussion.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/27/2206:35 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Your experience with streaming is unrecognizeable to me.
I use Apple Music.
If I want to hear an album, I play it. If I want to see what an artist's albums are, I look. If I want to see what recordings there are of a classical work, I look.
Apple has its own DJ'd feeds I can play, but I don't. I can also ask Apple to create a "radio station" to play stuff it thinks I will like, based on my listening history, but I don't do that either. I just listen to my own playlists, which are usually collections of entire albums. No ads, no forced listens, just what I want to hear, and I download all this stuff to my phone so I'm not dependent on a constant Internet connection.
Streaming music for me is like having a nearly infinite music library available wherever I go. On my Mac's external sound system at home, in my car via my phone, in my ears while walking if I want to listen with pods. If I want to hear Dvorak's 8th Symphony right now (and I never have, and I do not have any recordings of it) I can. For $10 a month.
Yes, I have to subscribe to Apple Music, but if I were downloading files I'd have to buy them online, and if I were still buying CD's I'd be handing a store clerk a credit card.
Apple Music changed our entire music listening experience in a very positive way. Years ago I uploaded our entire 400+ CD collection to iTunes. When Apple music was introduced it had an obviously huge sample of what we liked and from the get go we were offered many curated lists that we enjoyed. Now after several years Apple still plays new to us songs that are almost invariably (new or old) close to what we like. We have been introduced to a world of artists that were new to us and that we now listen to regularly. Walk in the living and tell Siri to play some music and we might skip two songs in an hour. Get in the car and continue...rinse and repeat. And all for 30 cents a day. I love our cloistered Apple world. Have at it.
Bud
PS And their catalog is a paltry 50,000,000 songs.
Apple Music changed our entire music listening experience in a very positive way. Years ago I uploaded our entire 400+ CD collection to iTunes. When Apple music was introduced it had an obviously huge sample of what we liked and from the get go we were offered many curated lists that we enjoyed. Now after several years Apple still plays new to us songs that are almost invariably (new or old) close to what we like. We have been introduced to a world of artists that were new to us and that we now listen to regularly. Walk in the living and tell Siri to play some music and we might skip two songs in an hour. Get in the car and continue...rinse and repeat. I love our cloistered Apple world. Have at it.
I kind of do that same thing with Amazon Play. I have Alexa Auto in my car and I can give those play commands that are likely similar to Apple. "alexa - boop - Play Willie Nelson Poncho and Lefty - boop - Playing Poncho and Lefty by Willie Nelson"
So with Apple can you upload songs to "your" space on Apple and play them through your car sound system when you drive? Like if you have some obscure album I'll use "American Noise", a local Cleveland band from the 80s, and Apple doesn't have it (Amazon doesn't either) in their inventory, can you put it there in Mark's Space?
We are really kind of spoiled if you think about it. With my thumb drive, I can press a button on my steering wheel and say "Play song After The Rain" and it searches my thumb drive and either plays it if I have it or says it can't find it. Similar to Amazon Music, similar to Apple Music...
And this is why I LOVE technology. Think about what you can do when laying in bed if you have the right electronics. I have a computer connected to a 50 inch Android TV with a lot of HDMIs. One for the computer, one for the Roku and one for the DVD, one for the Firestick (Which I don't really use because I can do everything I can do on the Firestick on my Roku), with a sound bar and sub woofer, with a wireless keyboard and mouse on the nightstand so if the mood hits me to suddenly check for something on the computer I can do it. I have a bunch of concerts and movies on that computer on 2 SSDs of 1TB each... What a great time for a nerd like me to be alive!!
I wonder if Amazon Music contributes their streaming data to those kind of reporting situations?
One thing I can add is this. My friend Andy, who is 56, has an Alexa Auto in his Silverado (beautiful truck!). When we go somewhere he plays Aerosmith, Van Halen, and AC/DC almost exclusively. So back to I think it was Mario who suggested this is all generational, I vote yes to that. I remember having my niece in my car in like 1980 when she was 14. I put in a Beatles cassette tape and she asked me "Who is this?" With a mother 5 years older than me, she didn't recognize The Beatles. So I asked my sister what she listened to around the house, and she said "Big bands. Just like when we were kids." So that niece wasn't really exposed to The Beatles.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
Your experience with streaming is unrecognizeable to me.
eddie's experience is what you get when you are not willing to pay for the service. The services that offer a "free" version will let you hear one song that you want and then they supply the rest of the songs in your "playlist" (from "similar" artists that they are pushing).
Of course, when you stopped listening to new music 40 years ago (or ANY music for that matter - by his own admission), why WOULD you pay for a streaming service?
Like Mark and J&B, I pay for Apple Music. Until I made that decision, I was still buying CDs that I heard and liked (when I could find them to listen to). That amounted to about the same amount of money in a year that I now pay for the service. The difference is I can now hear ANYTHING I want. And I listen to almost EVERY new release that hits the Country genre. The ones that I like, I add to my Library and will listen to again - sometimes as the whole album again, but more often as a shuffled playlist of all the records in my Library. It's GOOD music.
So with Apple can you upload songs to "your" space on Apple and play them through your car sound system when you drive? Like if you have some obscure album I'll use "American Noise", a local Cleveland band from the 80s, and Apple doesn't have it (Amazon doesn't either) in their inventory, can you put it there in Mark's Space?
Yes. I forgot to mention that.
I have all my own music (i.e., music I have made) on my Mac, in my music library. This is sync'd to Apple's cloud, so I can access all that stuff from anywhere. If I'm driving along and I want to hear an old recording I made, I push the button on the steering column and ask Siri to play whatever by moi, and she does.
Also, if I have an old MP3 I ripped from a commercial CD, and I sync that to Apple, and Apple has a higher quality version, it will stream me its better version.
I hate to sound like a fanboi but it really is a life-changing experience.
Fanboi away, Mark. Everybody is a fanboi of something or other. Music, firearms, sports, cooking, painting...
As a now old man who was born around the turn of the century, I only need to look back one generation to my father (1917-1990) and what HE saw change in his life. When he was born air travel was just a baby, and there was not yet commercial television. And just in his generation, in 1969, when he would have been 52, he saw television from the moon.
PCs as we know them were the brainchild of Eckert and Mauchly who developed the ENIAC just before I was born. PCs were first readily available in 1981. It's now 2022 and we have had a computer in our shirt pocket for about 15 years, and they get better and better. When I first got my current 5G ready phone I looked at a tower map and parked right by it, and ran a speed test. I got 137 mpbs down. On a phone. My home internet over a cable sends me 230. People with fiber (Billy) can get up to a gig. I go back as far as 300 baud dialup where you had to dial by phone and quickly switch to data if you got a carrier tone.
So fanboi all you want. Even the Bay City Rollers had fanbois! I enjoy all this great technology just like you do, and everybody on the forum does too.. Software that makes my backing tracks. Wow! I didn't even know this existed until 2009 and I bought it immediately upon hearing it work.
EDIT: And I just checked. I can upload music to Amazon in my own account.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/27/2210:21 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
For reasons of my own I went with Google Play Music which is now YouTube music, but the same thing. I can think of an album or artist and presto, listen to all their albums (mostly, there are some out of print things not available anywhere I look), in any order I want. I have playlists of one artist with basically all their songs and can do a random play that skips all around. It is fun to hear things you haven't heard in a while, or stuff you want to hear. Works great for me.
I am sure this didn't start out to be a my music is better discussion as some have taken it. I don't think there is a way to ever win that anyway. Everybody is different and has differing opinions as to what better means. Notes has it right, music I like, and music I don't really care for. There isn't much that will make me turn off a song.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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