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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm a brand new BIAB user. I have no training or eduction in MIDI or acoustic recording. The closest thing I have ever done to the technical side of that is plugging a guitar into the correct jack on a 10 channel PA.
I just bought and installed the Mega Pack BIAB 2010. When I play YouTube videos or other sound music related thins online or play MP3 files with Windows Media Player they sound great as the computer is plugged in through a USB Audio adapter, which is plugged into two channels of a 400watt Peavy PA system with 2x15's and horns. My Boss JamStation JS-5 is also plugged into the PA and sounds great. Karoke tracks played with a CD player, or on the computer going into the PS System sounds great.
The only thing that does not sound great is the new $200 Mega bucks worth of Band in a Box, which sounds like a little kid playing on a $37 keyboard at WalMart. The melodist on the tracks I have tried sounds like a toy flute or a kazoo depending on what song I'm trying. I hope this is just a matter of my not having the settings configured correctly, but with all the other sources of music there were not even any settings to configure.
Would some of you experienced people take pity on an old guitarist and help me get this Mega Band sounding like a band, rather than a kazoo and cheap keyboard demo?
Thanks - I'll take all the help that I can get...and will be eternally grateful.
Ron Vermillion
1-29-10
Senior Guitar Player - New BIAB User
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Welcome to the Forum. Things will get better.
First of all tell us about your computer and your sound card. A lot depends on your soundcard and/or the Synths used to create the midi voices. More info please.
Ian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB has no sounds,except the RTs of course. The sounds you hear from a MIDI arrangement is dependent on the synth you're using.You're probably using the MS gs wavetable. Try the VSC DXi or the bundled demo of Forte. Better yet buy a good sound module like the Ketron.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Ron, BIAB can indeed sound pretty spectacular too. From what you have written, it sounds like you might have: (a) loaded a full MIDI style; (b) not engaged VSC/DXi. First thing I'd try is to load in a Realstyle. To do this... - On the far left of the screen beside the song title, click Style.
- The style selector dialogue box with appear. In the Category column on left, click on either Realstyles or Styles with Realtracks.
- Now, under the middle column called Styles, select one of the many styles with a single-click of the mouse.
- Above the Style column, there is a button called Load Song Demo. Click that.
- Click OK to exit back into BIAB's chord view screen.
- Click your mouse on the green arrow labeled Play. Depending on your system, it may take 20 seconds or so to generate the Realtracks before the music starts playing.
From what you say about the "tinniness" of the sound, it suggests that MIDI is running through the soundcard's synthesizer. Employing a software sythesizer will enhance this greatly. To do this... - Select Opt. on the top menu bar.
- From the drop down list, select MIDI/Audio Driver Setup.
- Over on the right hand side of the pop-menu, put a checkmark beside Use VST/DXi Synth. NOTE: If you run a 64-bit operating system, you will not be able to activate the VSC/DXi until you get a software syntheziser (usually called "soft synth") like Coyote Forte ($59 from PGMusic). This is because the soft synth that ships with BIAB only operates in a 32-bit software environment.
Regards, Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 01/29/10 01:22 PM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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The problem is not Band-In-A-Box, but the MIDI sound synth on your computer. I suspect you are using the built-in Microsoft Wavetable MIDI synth. That's where the cheezy sounds are coming from. BIAB (assuming you are not using RealDrums/RealTracks at this point) generates commands telling the MIDI synth what to play, but has no sounds of its own.
I would try installing the Forte DXi synth that [I believe] came with your BIAB package. It comes with a 30-day free trial, after which you much purchase a license code to continue using it. There is also the VSC-DXi which ships with BIAB, but don't install this if you are running Windows VIsta or Windows 7.
There are also hardware synths, such as the Ketron SD-2 (many of us on the forum have that unit), that sound much better, but they cost much more.
But even with the better synths, it's not going to be the same as live players. It can get close, but not quite. That doesn't mean it's bad, and most people often can't tell the difference. Mixing live instruments (such as your guitar) with the MIDI instruments goes a long way to creating a realistic performance.
I'm sure others will chime in with their favorite synths. I definitely would only use the one that comes with Windows as a last resort.
Of course, with RealTracks and RealDrums, you get a much more realistic sound, because they are truly phrases of live instruments.
Last edited by jford; 01/29/10 01:15 PM.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am not a BIAB expert but I'll try to help. The midi sounds you hear coming out of your 15" Peavy speakers is only as good as the midi sound module you are using. Not all but most stock sound cards that come with a computer sound like you have described, especially older PCs. One cure for this is to use a software synth that probably came as part of the Mega Pak you purchased. That is the Roland VSC3. PG Music also sells the Forte soft synth .
Yet another fix is to use an external hardware module like the Roland Sound Canvas. Another good hardware synth I can vouch for is the Roland XV-2020. There are many good general midi synth modules out there . You will have to so some homework.
Another option that you have is to utilize the Realtracks and get away from midi entirely. You can render a midi track to a real Tracks instrument or you can pick a Realtracks Style and most of the instruments in your midi or BIAB file will sound great.
I hope this gets you pointed in the right direction.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I'm a brand new BIAB user. I have no training or eduction in MIDI or acoustic recording. The closest thing I have ever done to the technical side of that is plugging a guitar into the correct jack on a 10 channel PA.
I hardly know where to begin if you really know nothing about midi or computer based digital audio recording. Biab is simply a midi command generator that triggers a midi synthesizer. If you know squat about midi, then this would not be obvious to you. Biab has no sounds of it's own on the midi side. Real Tracks are a different animal. Midi can indeed sound like a kid's toy if all you're hearing is the el cheapo sound ship on your computers motherboard. Synths can either be software ie a "softsynth" or hardware like a keyboard or desktop sound module. The quality of the midi sound you get is entirely dependent on the quality of the synth you play it through. The other thing is General Midi or GM. Biab works easiest with a GM synth or soundbank. You can download a free fully functioning GM softsynth called the Forte DXi off this website. It costs $40 to buy but it's free for 30 days. It's not as good as the Ketron SD2 that PG Music sells for $389 but not bad either. Way better than what you're hearing now and once it's installed it will simply play with Biab with minimal tweaking. Try to get that installed and working and come back. You may also have the Roland VSC DXi included with your Biab package depending on which one you bought. It's not too bad either but may not work depending on what operating system you have.
Also, go to this website and click on the tab at the upper left "Getting Started" Audiominds This site is run by one of the forums resident experts, Mac. You need some basic training and that site is a good start.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You guys have defined my homework tonight. I know the package had all the "Real" things included in it and the Roland V?? . I certainly appreciate all the suggestions. If you are reading this and have something else to offer I will check the thread out tomorrow and report in on tonight's work. Off to the woodshead (basement)
Ron
1-29-10
Senior Guitar Player - New BIAB User
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hope that 'chicken pickin' is going well! Besides all the other good advice and homework assignments, 'The Guide at Tweakheadz Lab' is in my (not so humble) opinion the single best resource for a comprehensive, up to date over view of digital audio, including a primer on midi (of which there are also some good ones on this site.) http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htmPrado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Don't stop now.
The Forte DXi installation made a world of difference in the tone and body of the instruments. I also found a website with about 3,000 songs that could be downloaded and put in folders for BIAB which I did too.
Now I am just randomly playing demo songs and songs from that list and songs that evidently came with the program, and everything is probably going about 85% well. Now it just seems like (to my untrained and semi uninformed ear) that we have a group of musicians, the primary of which is a guy on a keyboard that can play anything. When they change songs even though they change tempo, beats and instruments somewhat it sounds like the same guys just trying to play a different song. I wish I had a more technical way to describe this. It's as if you found a band in a local hotel that has been there for 5 years playing the same routine night after night and even though they switch from Bossa Nova to Blues it sort of sounds like the same guys. I can't explain it any better than that.
The ideal would be to have Hendrick's band play Red House and Buddy Guy's band play Sweet Home Chicago, and Count Basie's band do One O'clock Jump. But as I pull up different songs the guys at the Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge play them all.
Am I searching for something that is not going to happen with BIAB or am I incorrectly playing different songs with one style set not to change or something like that?
You guys did so good the first time I thought I would try again. Meanwhile back at the ranch, $40 for Forte DXi isn't bad but I couldn't spring for the $399 or $799 Ketron gizmo - no way!
Thanks
Ron Vermillion
Last edited by Ron Vermillion; 01/29/10 07:19 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Don't stop now.
But as I pull up different songs the guys at the Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge play them all.
Ron Vermillion
Ron, thats a very interesting perspective. I guess you could call BIAB the "house band". 
Here are my thoughts on the subject. If you want the variety you described, with no effort on your part, simply listen to the radio. BIAB is accompanyment software and in my opinoin should not be used like Musac (or a Radio). What BIAB needs in order to breath life into the music is YOU. Weather you sing, play guitar, or cowbell you need to join the band. It could be simply arranging will get the band up and rockin. In my opinion the RT's which have over the past years been added offer a tremendous amount of varity - when arranged properly!
So how about it?, are you ready to join the Band . The rest of us here at the Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge are having a ball!
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge?!?
Man, I resemble that remark! 10 months at the downtown Holiday Inn in Houston in 1974. From Harrah's in Reno to the Holiday Inn, such is the life of a road musician.
Anyway, yes the Real Tracks are very generic because literally one style has to fit all kinds of different things. The trick is to mix and match parts plus adding your part. Many times just adding one Real Track to a midi style makes the whole thing sound much better. The midi styles have much more variety because midi can be precisely programmed but and it's a big but, your midi synth becomes very important. A good sound module like the Ketron can be just as good as the Real Tracks but...more money. Welcome to the G.A.S. club. That's Gear Acquisition Syndrome. We all have it. Bad.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Well, I never finish a mix just with BIAB. It is where I start, and of course the Real Tracks and Drums help a lot. But you need to take that midi file and put it into a sequencer, where you can really start to edit the way the tracks play, and add other instruments. Knowing how to Record and Mix audio will also help a lot.
I have had tons of conversations with musicians who listen to BIAB with the MS wavetable sounds say "Man, that sounds like crap, it's a terrible program". Then I take that same track, add Real tracks and some very high quality VST instruments, change the arrangment, and all of a sudden their eye's light up and they say "Wow, that sounds great, what program are you using now"? BIAB is a great tool, but you if do not use it correctly, you will get lame results. As Mac says'>It's another instrument man, just like a horn, you have to spend time to learn it correctly".
I agree!
Ed
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Don't stop now.
But as I pull up different songs the guys at the Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge play them all.
Ron Vermillion
Ron, thats a very interesting perspective. I guess you could call BIAB the "house band".
Here are my thoughts on the subject. If you want the variety you described, with no effort on your part, simply listen to the radio. BIAB is accompanyment software and in my opinoin should not be used like Musac (or a Radio). What BIAB needs in order to breath life into the music is YOU. Weather you sing, play guitar, or cowbell you need to join the band. It could be simply arranging will get the band up and rockin. In my opinion the RT's which have over the past years been added offer a tremendous amount of varity - when arranged properly!
So how about it?, are you ready to join the Band . The rest of us here at the Holiday Inn Nugget Lounge are having a ball!
Ditto, one cannot emphasis enough as to how much your personal input, whether it be in your style of arranging or participation via instrumental or vocal wise or a combination of all three can make the final output "yours". Every band needs a front man, and in this case it is you.
Good Luck,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I like to mix and match a bit. For instance, I might start out with a basic style, but then add flavor from other styles to bring it to life.
For instance, you can take a straight ahead slow jazz ballad, that might feel kind of turgid by itself, and add a blues piano solo to the entire track using "Soloist", and suddenly, the phrasing introduced by those piano lines makes the track feel more lively and "cool".
Variations on this "mix and match" idea can give you endless variety. You can get even more specific. For instance, you can choose a style that emulates Bill Evans' left hand on piano for the "Piano" track, then add something that sounds more "Harry Connick" for the right hand in the Soloist track.
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I suppose the problem is here on day 3 or so as a BIAB owner I don't yet know how to do the things that are being recommended and seem somewhat second nature to experienced BIAB users. I posed my question the way I did in case someone out there would come back with an answer like "Be sure that the [v] "Load Style for Song" switch is checked. I pretty much assumed most of the other answers were headed my way.
I do appreciate the helpful suggestions and will continue to work with it and refine it. I have no intentions of setting up a professional recording or music manipulation system. I just wanted a backing track system that I could easily program for "my" versions of songs.
Thanks again for all the suggestions. Now where did I put that old crystal set I built in Boy Scouts.
Ron
1-29-10
Senior Guitar Player - New BIAB User
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Ron, just noticed your posting count number, I should have said "..Welcome to the forum". BIAB is the swiss-army-knife of music software programs. Work with it long enough and you will discover all it can do to help you with your "backing track" needs. Here is a suggestion, keep it simple at first - Drums and bass only. Personnally, I would suggest you focus on the real tracks (RT) rather than the midi if realistic backing is your initial goal. Then slip in the piano player as a rhythm accompanyment. I think the RT pianos are super. Keep in mind that the quality of the melody (since it will likely be midi at firat) is not only dependent on the synth you use (you've found Forte so you got a good start), but just as importantly on the talents of the guy who recorded/wrote/programed the midi lead. Simply put, some midi is good and some is crap. But down the road, when you want the bass player to start walkin in the bridge and the drummer to switch from sticks to brushes, and the tempo to jump 20% with a doubletime feel, and you want to trade fours with your horn section, you are going to have to move into the realm of "arranging" the tracks, then you will start to really hear how the backing can come to life. Good luck.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Final thought,
When you select a Style. look for the - "Classic" Real Styles - and start there. These are a special category of styles with only RTs and are comprised of backing instruments only (no lead instruments).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In light of all the excellent advice and information given, and from your responses, the best piece of advice I can possibly offer is to read the PDF manual. BIAB is not a plug and play system you have to learn how to best use it.
Start at page one, and work thru every section, not only reading, but applying the techniques outlined for you. You will soon see how to change instruments, use the piano roll editor, etc. Convert a midi track to audio, and there fore have much more control over the final sound of that instrument, etc.
Watch the tutorial demos, play with it, make changes, as long as you don't save anything you can't screw it up. Most important don't expect to be an expert overnight. Trust me.........
Good luck.
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Try using the Styles Picker Window (select Button on the Left of the Screen) and experiment with using different styles/instruments. Check out the Help Button bottom right for detailed information on use.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
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Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
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This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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