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#100744 - 01/05/11 08:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . .
Danny C. Offline
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Does anyone else find that the Jazz B3 realtracs pedal bass notes conflict with any bass you are using on any given style? Just my personal preference but I would love to have the Jazz B3 without the bass notes included, just wondering if this is possible? And if not is there a way to drop the bass pedal from the realtracs?

Just wondering,
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#100745 - 01/05/11 09:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
cubanpete Offline
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Registered: 08/24/07
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Hi Danny, as far as understand, that's the idea behind that particular RT, no need for an extra bass. I have no idea whether you can get rid of the bass pedals sound, but being an audio file like the rest of them, I think the answer is not (I might be wrong). However, on a song I created which even is a Bossa style instead of swing, I added a Bossa acoustic bass and kind of masked the pedal bass pretty good, the bass pedal definitively messed up the Bossa feel naturally. I was pretty happy with the result.

Mike B.
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#100746 - 01/05/11 11:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: cubanpete]
J. Larry Offline
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Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 496
I agree with Danny C. I'd like to use the organ RT's, but do not like the bass part; so, I'm not using them. Would love to see a variety of organ RT's created without any bass.

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#100747 - 01/06/11 09:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: J. Larry]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
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I haven’t used these RTs but could work around be to use a high pass filter to eliminate those pedal bass parts? You would have to use a sequencer and use the filter on the organ track but it should work.
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#100748 - 01/06/11 09:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: MarioD]
silvertones Offline
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According to a friend of mine who is a long time jazz player, when you had a guy on the B3 you never had a bass player in the band.The B3 guy played the bass parts.
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#100749 - 01/06/11 10:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: silvertones]
MarioD Offline
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Your friend speaks the truth! I played many years in a B3, guitar and drum trio. I still love that sound! Think of Dr. Lonnie Smith and George Benson and Jimi Smith and Kenny Burrell.

I was just trying to help Danny who apparently wants to use the B3 RT without the bass pedals.
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

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#100750 - 01/06/11 11:05 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
raymb1 Offline
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The sound of the jazz B3 is pretty authentic. Just listen to any Jimmy Smith, Joey DeFrancesco or Tony Monaco recording. That's the way B3 bass should sound. I agree though, that there should be an option to use the B3 RT without the organ bass so that you can choose your own bass RT. Maybe for a future update? Later, Ray
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#100751 - 01/06/11 12:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: raymb1]
John Conley Offline
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Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 8333
Loc: London, Ontario, Canada
I played in a band 3 years ago. No pedals on the keyboard.

The asked me not to use my left hand as I was walking over the bass player.

Then they asked me to play only short fills, and not on certain verses.

Then they asked me to stay off the melody.

Then I picked up my keyboard, the mixer they were using, my 3 speakers and didn't go back.

They've had 8 gigs with 4 guys, each getting $100 for 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. plus setup and tear down.

The wife and I, despite my taking time off for cancer, have had 12 gigs, $250 for 8 p.m. to midnight, or in an afternoon. 3 of them I got the same money and she didn't play.

About 70 percent of the money was donated back to the organization that hired us.
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#100752 - 01/06/11 01:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: John Conley]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6494
Loc: South Louisiana
Guys thanks for the responses. I should have stated that indeed the B3 Jazz tracs are pretty authentic(including the pedal bass lines) but with todays BIAB and all the wonderful choices of bass styles I find that the B3 pedal bass conflicts with the other real bass tracs and yet is really not strong enough to stand on it's own with no bass at all.

Yo Mario . . . I too was fortunate to play many years with a B3 in our trio and we did not use a bass player either. However there was another draw back with our B3 player back then, you see because of him we could not keep a girl singer, but that is subject matter for another thread someday.

Maybe in the future if enough request come in we may have a choice of pedal or no pedal but until then I sort of feel like I am standing in the bread line requesting French Toast.

Thanks guys,
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#100753 - 01/07/11 10:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11438
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

Yo Mario . . . I too was fortunate to play many years with a B3 in our trio and we did not use a bass player either. However there was another draw back with our B3 player back then, you see because of him we could not keep a girl singer, but that is subject matter for another thread someday.





Hey Danny, I doubt that the female issue was not the biggest issue concerning playing in a B3, guitar and drum trio. You only had three guys to move that ultra heavy B3 and Leslie! Even with carriers and ramps for the truck it was still heavy
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

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#100754 - 01/07/11 12:55 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: MarioD]
J. Larry Offline
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Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 496
My only dislike about the B3 bass line is that it's not fat and full-enough for me compared to the real basses. I agree with the line someone said about "really not strong enough to stand on it's own." I've got all my tunes carefully balanced for live play. The B3 bass line disappears when compared to the others. Increasing the volume of that track throws everything else out of whack. And, I don't want to re-EQ everything just for B3 tunes alone.

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#100755 - 01/07/11 08:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: MarioD]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6494
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

Quote:

Yo Mario . . . I too was fortunate to play many years with a B3 in our trio and we did not use a bass player either. However there was another draw back with our B3 player back then, you see because of him we could not keep a girl singer, but that is subject matter for another thread someday.





Hey Danny, I doubt that the female issue was not the biggest issue concerning playing in a B3, guitar and drum trio. You only had three guys to move that ultra heavy B3 and Leslie! Even with carriers and ramps for the truck it was still heavy




Mario,

That was nearly 30 years ago and even today my back aches when I see a Leslie! Love the sound but hate everything else about it. The drummer would just beg him to leave the Leslie home, heck he'd tell the organist to bring an accordian instead.

Later,
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#100756 - 01/08/11 09:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11438
Loc: Hamlin NY
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yo Mario . . . I too was fortunate to play many years with a B3 in our trio and we did not use a bass player either. However there was another draw back with our B3 player back then, you see because of him we could not keep a girl singer, but that is subject matter for another thread someday.





Hey Danny, I doubt that the female issue was not the biggest issue concerning playing in a B3, guitar and drum trio. You only had three guys to move that ultra heavy B3 and Leslie! Even with carriers and ramps for the truck it was still heavy




Mario,

That was nearly 30 years ago and even today my back aches when I see a Leslie! Love the sound but hate everything else about it. The drummer would just beg him to leave the Leslie home, heck he'd tell the organist to bring an accordian instead.

Later,




It was 40 years ago for me and my back aches when I see one also. On a plus side I think I kept BenGay in business for at least 10 years

Today I have NI’s B4II. It weighs a few ounces but contains all of the sounds of a B3! The kids today don’t know how lucky they have it.
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My mind is like my Internet browser: 19 tabs open, 3 of them are frozen & I have no idea where the music is coming from.

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#100757 - 01/08/11 03:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2551
Loc: Sterling, Va
The bass on my B3 tracks are more than loud enough. Just as loud as the string bass RTs. There must be something wrong in your set-up. Later, Ray
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#100758 - 01/08/11 04:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: raymb1]
Danny C. Offline
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Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6494
Loc: South Louisiana
Quote:

The bass on my B3 tracks are more than loud enough. Just as loud as the string bass RTs. There must be something wrong in your set-up. Later, Ray




Ray,

I understand that but the bass pedal and the B3 chord adjust to the same volume. Therefore in order to get the B3 pedal louder the entire track comes up and this in some cases makes the entire B3 track too loud for the rest of the mix. But with that said I am not discounting that something could be wrong with my setup, however every other trac seems to adjust perfectly. But like I stated in an early post this is a very small inconvenience in the overall scheme of BIAB.

Take Care,
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#100759 - 01/09/11 12:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: Danny C.]
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2551
Loc: Sterling, Va
My B3 tracks are very well balanced between the bass and the chords. I practice my EWI 4000s with the B3 and Real Drum tracks. Never a problem with anything being too loud or too soft. Would be nice if others who are using the B3 tracks would chime in here and tell us how they're doing with these tracks. Later, Ray
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#100760 - 01/09/11 08:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Jazz B3 Realtracs, is it just me or . . . . [Re: raymb1]
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
**Just because it is a B3 doesn't mean the track was designed to do the job of a B3 "fill" player, nor does the genre fit very well with styles other than pure jazz/modern jazz/bebop. **


Those wanting a B3 for songs in other genres really shouldn't be trying to use the Jazz Trio B3 tracks for that purpose.

The registrations used are "wrong" for the job for one thing, as well as the style of playing, use of Leslie, Scanner settings, well, everything about the Jazz B is much different from what would be done in a typical Pad setup to accompany a Popular, Country, Rock or Blues etc. song.

What you *really* seem to need here would be B3 RealTracks that are designed as such from the gitgo, rather than attempts to make these examples work in your songs.

It is not just the presence of the B3 Bass part that is wrong for the purpose.


And the Walking Bass is not done on Pedals - that is typically done with the Left Hand on the lower manual, using a particular drawbar setting. Many jazz players then also "chiff" the Pedal at the beginning of each fingered note, typically on the tritone of the note being played or the chord root, to imitate the "pluck" of a string bass on the organ.

So this whole thread should really be a WISHLIST ITEM -> "More B3 Realtracks, Pads, Fills and contemporary solos" or something along those lines.


--Mac
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