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RealBand
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Hi to all, I need help getting to patches in the KETRON SD 2....I have done some homework and I have managed to to get the Patch file located into the RealBand folder.....I can access Voice Bank A control change 00, value=0...I can access Voice Bank B, control change 00, value=1.....I can access Bank C, control change 00, value =10..I can access both Drum sets....but for some reason I cannot access Presets Bank control change 00, value =2. Mind you I don't access these Banks by using control change values, I simply right-click on track select patch select dialog select Ketron Sd2 and then the patch of my chosing. I can see in the variations window Banks 0,1,10 for any patch I select.....but where is PRESETS BANK??? I would be so grateful for any help from all you experts. I learned much already by reading the forum, but this problem has me stumped.
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RealBand
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I think I found the answer to my own question. In BIAB the patches I was looking for were labeled 'PRESET' but in RealBand they were not prefixed with 'PRESET' and they appeared in the first Bank instead of MSB BANK 2 CTRL 0. Can anyone help me to understand why they appear in Bank 0 rather then where Ketron reports that they are in control change 00 value=2? Thanks a bunch.
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RealBand
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My first inclination would be to ask if you think it's an error by Ketron, or the guy that donated the (free) patchmap?
Could be the guy forgot to add a line for Bank 2, or maybe the Ketron Does group them together, I don't have one to check with.
Or it could be GM2 specs coming into play -
quick wiki -
"General MIDI 2 compatible synthesizers access all of the 256 instruments by setting cc#0 (Bank Select MSB) to 121 and using cc#32 (Bank Select LSB) to select the variation bank ..."
Important part is you figured it out and passed along the knowledge. Thanks.
Did you get the patchmap here? I ask because some people get them from other DAW sites.
Last edited by rharv; 03/25/11 07:09 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Thanks for your response. My guess is that it is an error by Ketron. The patchmap was obtained from PG. My knowledge of Midi in general is very limited. I did read on a Ketron SD2 review the writer mentions that PRESETS are just a "Greatest Hits" set of patches. "Or it could be GM2 specs coming into play"....That makes sense to me. I need to do some more studying on Control Changes, Program Changes & such. Thanks for your help.
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RealBand
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I discovered something new...The patches ini file from PGM shows it is for PowerTracks Pro Audio: dated Feb. 22, 2008 instead of RealBand...I did put the file into my text editor and it does show my Sd2 patches along with General Midi,Roland, etc...My question is do I have the correct Patches.ini file? Thanks in advance for any & all help.
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RealBand
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The file will work for both Realband and Powertracks; they are basically the same program, difference being Realband can handle Realtracks.
Are they by chance the patches listed under the
(Bank 121)
(BankLSB 2)
section?
For that bank, does Ketron say cc00=2 or does it say cc32=2 ?
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Top of the day to ya.....no indeed the Musette accordion sound (listed as a preset in BIAB PATCH FILE) is found in Bank 0 patch 22 in RealBand. The (Bank 121)(BankLSB 2)has many patches missing, the first patch listed is 1= Acoustic Grand Piano (dark). Patch 128 (laser gun) being the last patch...and many different patches missing in between. I did a Ctrl + F and cc32 or cc00 was not found in the Patches.ini file. So, "For that bank, does Ketron say cc00=2 or does it say cc32=2 ?" is a negative. Thanks for your help.
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RealBand
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Reread what I wrote -
Does the Ketron info say cc32 = 2?
Not the patches ini ...
There is MSB (Most Signifacant Byte, which is cc00) and there is LSB (Least Significant Byte, which is cc32). These are both used in upper bank patch selection.
So I was asking if maybe you misread the MSB (cc00) compared to LSB (cc32) in the Ketron manual. That would explain everything, but I don't have one to check.
If you wanted to ctrl+F the ini patch, you would search for "LSB 2". If your Preset patches are under that heading in the pathces.ini file it would indicate Ketron meant cc32 (or it says cc32 and you misread it).
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Sorry I misread you my friend. In the Ketron Manual this is exactly what appears: "PRESETS BANK (control change 00, Value=2)". There is no mention of LSB or MSB or cc32 or cc00. That is always an annoyance to me....Very little is Standardized!! I see people here in the forums getting confused about Program, Patches, Channels, lots of times these terms are used interchangably.
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RealBand
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Yeah, using terms interchangably can add to confusion.
I guess the Ketron has an error in their docs. Thanks for letting us know that.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Yea, right..back to square one..I learned a lot from this exchange....Thanks
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RealBand
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The Ketron SD 2 provides voices as follows:
A Voice Bank=MSB Bank 0, LSB 0. This is the GM Standard Bank.
B Voice Bank=MSB Bank 0, LSB 1.
C Voice Bank=MSB Bank 0, LSB 10.
Presets Bank=MSB Bank 0, LSB 2. These are specially developed sounds, with effects etc.
You need to copy the Patches.ini File you have obtained from PGMusic and paste it into the file of the same name in RB and/or PTW folders. When the program is next opened then screen messages will appear to advise that the file has no errors and has been accepted by the program. Go into Options > Patch Names and select that for the Ketron SD 2.
The best way to apply these Patches to the Ketron is to open the Classic Tracks Window where you will see a column Prg which should show the Program number and name of the Patch you have selected providing that the Column Bank (which is the MSB number) shows Zero and the column LSB shows the the LSB code 0, 1, 2 or 10. The Drums are applied as MSB 0, LSB 0 via channel 10. If your Patch List is corrupted or not selected correctly then the Ketron will still work from the entered Program Numbers, MSB and LSB codes only.
I hope this assists.
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RealBand
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Thanks for your response. With the info you provided and a little more studying I have been able to get to the presets. I have just now learned how to enter control changes and program changes in the events list. I still can't get to the PRESETS BANK by PATCH SELECT DIALOG. But I can access it through the events list. Thanks for the input!!
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LynB, could you verify that these 2 program changes are the same instrument. I have found that:
cc0 bank 0 prog. 22 and cc0 bank 2 prog. 25 are one & the same instrument being MUSETTE accordion sound. I did this experiment in RealBand 2011 by entering the control changes and program changes in the events list.
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RealBand
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The sounds made by the two patches are similar, but I expect the Preset has some additional FX included.
You can enter the Patch Data via the Event List and indeed Midi Files obtained from the Internet will include them so. However, it is better in Sequencers to use the programs internal features to this end - using the Classic Tracks Window and entering the Patch program number and LSB codes there will allow you to change and indentify Patches much more easily.
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RealBand
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Thanks for the reply Lyn, but I've failed to find "Classic Tracks Window". I'm using RealBand 2011. Perhaps that was a feature in PowerTracks?? Yes, they sound VERY similar.....could be I hear a little more Reverb in the preset. Cheers!
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RealBand
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In RB the Classic tracks window is available under the Window menu
or ctrl+9
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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RealBand
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Thank you so much......we can assume too much can't we....I feel about a foot tall.
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