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#126562 - 08/27/11 11:05 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: GDaddy]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
If our elected officials would honor and support the US Constitution, most if not all of these kind of problems could not exist.

The Constitution needs to be honored, followed, obeyed - and *ENFORCED* ACROSS THE BOARD.

Any other situation is headed towards a situation that will be very ugly, I'm afraid.

History shows us that tyrants always underestimate the power of the good people.

While sitting out this storm, I took advantage of it to let my two grandsons view my copy of, "The Patriot" last night. With a little bit of explanation and explaining from Grandpa along the way through. Funny how the kids get it right away. I guess it takes years of sorry schooling and maybe a post graduate degree before equivocation replaces decision process.


--Mac
_________________________
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#126563 - 08/27/11 12:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
KeithS Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 868
Loc: Mobile, Alabama
Quote:



Wouldn’t Obama be proud for part of his legacy to be taking down Gibson, Martin, Taylor and Fender guitar companies for “letter of the law” instead of “spirit of the law” violations ?????????????





Filing false docunents us not a letter of the law vs a spirit of the law violation and Martin, Fender and Taylor have not been accused of any wrong doing.
_________________________
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BIAB 2017 Audiophile
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#126564 - 08/27/11 12:30 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: rharv]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
Rharv,

Quote:

It was pretty cool to see a community pull together and say 'we've had enough of your intruding in our lives' and do something about it. It turned into an issue of right to assemble, and right to enter public waterway, and the community wanted to retain those rights.




Way to go rharv! That’s exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. It’s great to see a community rally together and remind authorities who they actually work for.
………………………………………………………..

Pat,

Quote:

herein lies part of the problem... because different people define "what is right" differently... so you have to go by "what is law"




Glad to see you weigh in. Rharv’s communities civil disobedience is a perfect example of doing what is right vs. what is legal, so I don’t think it needs much comment, especially since I’ve been talking so much.

Quote:

in a democratic society, it should be the majority of voters who decide what is law




I’m not taking you to task my friend, but this is incorrect. We don’t live in a democracy, but a representative Republic, so voters have very little, if any, say over individual laws. We elect representatives to make those decisions for us. They are then answerable to the voters for their actions.

Democracy in its purest form is nothing more than “mob rule”. I like this quote from Wiki:

Quote:

In modern republics such as the United States and India, the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by popular suffrage. James Madison, the fourth President of the United States, compared republican government to democratic government, and found democracy wanting.




Our Constitution is meant to prevent the “majority” from taking away the rights of the “few” and to limit the powers of the government. The government should fear the “people”, and not the other way around.

Shifting gears a little, your treatise on “finished product” vs. “raw materials” was spot on and fits the Gibson situation perfectly.
……………………………………………………………….

Mac,

“The Patriot” is one of my all time favorite movies and should be required viewing in our schools. It lays out the sacrifices and hard decisions made by our forefathers better than anything I’ve ever seen.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126565 - 08/27/11 12:48 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: KeithS]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
Keith,

Quote:

Some facts that the Gibson Press release fails to mention:




You appear to be assuming that Gibson is guilty, while I’m assuming they are innocent. I think the truth will be found to be similar to what Pat Marr laid out in his definition of “finished goods” vs. “raw materials”. Hence, my letter of the law vs. spirit of the law comment.

My inclusion of Martin, Taylor and Fender is simply a logical extension of “who’s next” on the government hit list if they’re successful in their assault on Gibson.


Edited by bobcflatpicker (08/27/11 02:13 PM)
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126566 - 08/27/11 02:16 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Ryszard]
eddie1261 Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4016
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
This is the "wood" version of RIAA suing grandmothers to make a statement to the public.

If this government has nothing better to do than raid a company like Gibson but NOT raid Fender, Martin, Taylor etc.... then this is selective enforcement meant to send a message. Go after the biggest "drug dealer" and the little guys on the street corner will get the message too.

Economy slow? Let's invent reasons to collect fines from people. Let's see what we can do to chase ANOTHER business out of the USA and have them move to some place where the laws are a little less draconian.

I really hate authority.

This is the same government that killed 58,000 of my comrades in Vietnam and sprayed the rest of us with Agent Orange, which caused diabetes in many of us? And that same government that now treats us like crap when we need their help? Now they want to ruin our guitars?
_________________________
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

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#126567 - 08/27/11 02:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: eddie1261]
Mac Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Please do take note of the political party that was in charge during the Vietnam conflict...


--Mac
_________________________
PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here

You must be Audiominds.
www.audiominds.com

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#126568 - 08/27/11 02:37 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Mac]
eddie1261 Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4016
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Please do take note of the political party that was in charge during the Vietnam conflict...


--Mac




Hmmmm... Mr Kennedy, then Mr Johnson, and it ended when Mr Nixon got in. And now we are back to "Let's keep them employed as soldiers rather than bring them back to no jobs, all while keeping people who make guns, bullets, boots, vehicles, uniforms, and prepacked meals working..."

Another "Hmmmm"......

Wasn't part of the last campaign "We will end the war. Democrat = no war, Republican = more war"? Seems like in his 3rd year at the helm, we are still there..... wouldn't that amount to "My whole sales pitch was a lie"?
_________________________
If you say "I can't" ..... I'm pretty sure you won't.

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#126569 - 08/27/11 04:53 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: GDaddy]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
Gibson used to use Brazilian rosewood until importation of that wood was banned.
Importation of Brazilian Rosewood was banned in 1992 until CITES (some exceptions to be discussed). It was and is considered the king of tonewoods for acoustic guitars, both because of its tonal qualities and the wonderful chocolate brown color with great swirling grain. All of those $200,000 -$500,000+ pre-war Martin D-28s that are considered the Stradivarius of acoustic guitars are Brazilian Rosewood with Adirondack Spruce tops (with forward-shifted bracing).

Again, although Gibson used some Brazilian Rosewood, Gibson's always been more into maple and mahogany acoustic guitars.

It's still possible to get Brazilian (lower-quality Brazilian) at a high price, but the luthier has to have a lot of paperwork showing that the wood came from a tree cut down before 1992. That era of getting Brazilian from old stumps is an era that's pretty well passed, however.

Madagascar Rosewood was illegal to import (under Madagascar rules, I believe) for years, but a coup made it possible to get some into the country over the last decade or so. It's the closest thing, tonally and in looks, to Brazilian that we've seen.

East Indian is nice, but nothing like Madagascar or Brazilian Rosewood.

All of that is said with respect to using the wood as a tonewood, and not just as a fretboard or the veneer on a headstock.

And using Franklin Titebond instead of hide glue makes a difference, I believe. Think of pulling away old white glue. It still has a rubbery feel to it. Hide glue is brittle. When you want to transfer vibration from one wood component to another, rubbery white glue, no matter how well cured and now matter how thin the coat, dampens the vibration. That's what I hear from luthiers and based on guitars I have that are made with hide glue, I believe I can hear the difference.

Not to get technical but C.F. Martin Guitars are not a competitor of Gibson guitars.
C.F. Martin makes acoustic guitars exclusively. Gibson does not, they mainly make Electric Guitars. From the famous Les Paul model to the popular 'SG' model, the 'Flying Vee', and the semi-hollow body ES-335 'Dot', and like BB King's ES-345 'Lucille'.

The competitor for Gibson is Fender Guitars and their Stratocaster and Telecaster models. Many famous players like Eric Clapton start out with the Gibson Les Paul then switch to the Fender 'Strat' for the different sound a Strat makes. (Clapton's Fender Strat 'Blackie' sold at an auction at Christie's in London for a whopping $959,000!)

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#126570 - 08/27/11 04:56 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Quote:

in a democratic society, it should be the majority of voters who decide what is law




I’m not taking you to task my friend, but this is incorrect. We don’t live in a democracy, but a representative Republic, so voters have very little, if any, say over individual laws. We elect representatives to make those decisions for us. They are then answerable to the voters for their actions.

Democracy in its purest form is nothing more than “mob rule”. I like this quote from Wiki:

Quote:

In modern republics such as the United States and India, the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by popular suffrage. James Madison, the fourth President of the United States, compared republican government to democratic government, and found democracy wanting.




Our Constitution is meant to prevent the “majority” from taking away the rights of the “few” and to limit the powers of the government. The government should fear the “people”, and not the other way around.






for what it's worth Bob, I chose my words carefully. Note in the quote above that I did NOT say we are a DEMOCRACY but that we are a "democratic society" (Which basically means the people get to vote). I'm quite aware that the USA is not a pure democracy. The point that I was trying to make is that a government "of the people by the people and for the people" should not have laws that the people don't want shoved down their throats.

Since it is impossible to please everybody all the time, I added the word MAJORITY assuming that elected officials should theoretically represent their constituents, which theoretically should be the majority most (but not all) of the time.

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#126571 - 08/27/11 06:59 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Pat Marr]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
Point taken my friend. When I saw "democratic society", I read that as synonymous with the word democracy. My mistake.

Take care.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126572 - 08/27/11 10:37 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
All the acoustic guitars I've owned have had Rosewood sides and backs except for one Gibson J-45.
I had no idea that Brazilian Rosewood was legal up until 1992. I may have an acoustic with Brazilian Rosewood. How would I tell?

I just know that when I shopped around for my Marin HD28 I played dozens of them and disliked all of them for the price. I bought mine from Gruhn Guitars in Nashville over the phone and it is still the best acoustic guitar I ever played. I know it was built around 1989-1990. I wonder what kind of Rosewood it is. It's very dark brown.

Is Brazilian Rosewood more prone to small cracks? I did have one problem with the side having a small split starting. Matin fixed it and put in side bracing which I see is now in all newer HD28s.

Wayne,
_________________________
"My Music Page"

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#126573 - 08/27/11 11:11 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: redguitars]
bobcflatpicker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 3350
Loc: WV, USA
Wayne,

I pulled the spec sheet from my custom Martin that I had built in 1992 to double check the rosewood. Since the guitar is custom made to specs, it doesn’t have a model number, it just has CUSTOM stamped where the model number goes. Essentially, it’s a HD28 with an oversized sound hole with double herringbone rosettes, extended fretboard (2 extra frets), Venetian cutaway and 1940’s style scalloped bracing. If it had a model #, it would be HDC282R.

Oops, …………sorry, you didn’t ask about my guitar, but I love that sucker!

The wood Martin used on both of our guitars is Indian Rosewood and is a beautiful and great sounding hardwood. Perfectly legal and a fantastic alternative to Brazilian. Another great and more beautiful alternative is Cocobolo. It’s a Central American hardwood.
_________________________
Bob
................................
http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

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#126574 - 08/28/11 09:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
redguitars Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 618
Loc: US
Hi Bob,
Your Martin sounds like a real keeper.
I remember how long it took me to find mine. I tried so many D28s and they didn't sound good for me.
Most of the HD28s I tried weren't for me, but when I found mine, I knew it was for me.
As soon as I got it I put on a set of my favorite strings. From the first chords I was in love and I still am.
I had a lot of acoustics on my life and they all just came and went. Some were very good ones, but my Martin was the first and now the only one I ever play. I had an under saddle tranducer put in and it took me almost 5 years for me to have it installed. I was just so afraid it would change the tone.
Also Martin's warranty is the best in the world.
Glad to hear about your Martin. It's great to have a guitar that makes you happy.
Every guitar I have now I bought new. It's amazing how I think of my Telecaster as my new electric guitar and it's 23 years old already.
One of my 12 Strings is from 1977. Time sure does fly.

Thanks for the info on the Indian Rosewood. It sounds great.
Wayne,
_________________________
"My Music Page"

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#126575 - 08/28/11 10:06 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: bobcflatpicker]
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Point taken my friend. When I saw "democratic society", I read that as synonymous with the word democracy. My mistake.

Take care.




Bob,
your reply was more gracious than mine. Thanks for your good will.
Apologies for my sharp reply...

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#126576 - 08/28/11 11:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Feds Raid Gibson Guitar...again!? [Re: Pat Marr]
GDaddy Offline
Expert

Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
Only play country music on it that ought to piss off the dems

PAT:
I still have my XV-5080, with some boards in it. Key part of my hardware!



Edited by GDaddy (08/28/11 11:04 AM)
_________________________
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Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.


Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3

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PG Music News
RealBand 2018 Build 5 Update Available!

RealBand 2018 customers can download the latest free patch update here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#2018_5

Summary of Changes for Build 5
Added: When generating the input file for saving as an MGU/SGU SongMode128= is saved to the input file.
Added: Localization support for 2018.
Added: flyby hints to new dialogs.
Fixed: Save As with a filename greater than 128 chars could cause an error 123 plus access violation.
Fixed: Rebooting RealBand after a filename with 128 chars was saved could cause an access violation.
Fixed: Pressing the Change button in the Event List Window could result in an access violation if an event was not a Note event.
Fixed: When running in Win 10, and using BBW or PT to generate audio harmonies, an error would occur saying that you need BB 2011 or PT 12 to generate audio harmonies.
Fixed: Midi Thru Method was not being saved to the .INI file. It always reverting to Track-Specific when booting up RealBand, even if the user manually changed the setting to Global in the Midi Thru Settings dialog.
Fixed: Delete All Notes on This Peg menu item in notation window right-click menu was missing.
Fixed: Potential crash on exit (having to do with the DLL attempting to free up a dynamic array that was passed to it).

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 Build 512 Update Available!

Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows customers can download the latest free patch update here: www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#512

Summary of changes for Build 512 since 510 (Feb 15 2018):
Fixed: "Load SoundTrack Song" and "Load song with RealDrums Audio" buttons in the Sound Track dialog were not working.
Fixed: After returning Band-in-a-Box to factory settings the File Open dialog would default to the bb\Data\Lib directory.
Fixed: Choosing a custom chord sheet font would ignore any color choice made in the font selection dialog.
Fixed: Drum names were sometimes truncated in the RealDrums MultiDrums and Quicklist dialogs.
Fixed: Exporting a MIDI file might cause the error, "MIDIConv.exe no found".
Fixed: Mixer changes were not undoable, and would not cause user to be prompted to save their song when exiting.
Fixed: Static in RT2438 and other various RealTracks fixes.
Fixed: StylePicker database various updates. Some styles were displaying the wrong feel (swing/even) in notation. A few styles incorrectly showed missing Drums.
Fixed: The audio latency setting would increase every time leaving the Windows Audio Devices dialog.
Fixed: The Download Manager folder name defaulted to 2016 instead of 2018.
Updated: Help file.

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is Here!

PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is here! PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 includes many new features and enhancements:

Windows Audio (WASAPI) driver support. This allows for low latency audio recording/playback without requiring ASIO. Note that this supports 1 stereo input plus 1 stereo output at a time. For multiple inputs/outputs, you should continue to use either MME or ASIO.

ABC Notation format support. You can save a track of notation in a popular ASCII text format to import into other programs, or you can paste this format into a user forum as a way of sending the track (usually the melody and chord symbols) to other users without having to attach a file.

The built-in Audio Chord Wizard detection in the Chords window automatically detects the chords of the song, based on the audio data from all non-muted audio tracks. This works similar to the standalone Audio Chord Wizard, except that it uses the current bar lines of the existing song.

Notation Enhancements:
-X/8 time signature support. This is a special method of displaying 6/8, 9/8, or 12/8 time signatures in the Notation window.
-The Duplicate previous chord in notation right-click menu lets you quickly duplicate the previous chord (group of notes on same peg) without having to reenter it.
-Delete highlighted notes in notation right-click menu lets you delete all highlighted notes.
-Delete all notes on this peg in notation right-click menu lets you delete all notes on the nearest peg that was clicked on.
-You can now enter Section Numbers. Previously, you could enter letters (A-Z) only, but now you can also enter numbers (1-9).

...a full list of the new features in PowerTracks Pro Audio 2018 is available at http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.features.htm

http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

#TBT - The Beginning of Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box®

We released the much-loved Xtra Styles PAKs in August 2016! This release included 164 RealStyles for Jazz, Country, Rock-Pop, and Singer/Songwriter and worked with any Band-in-a-Box® 2016 or higher UltraPlusPAK, EverythingPAK, or Audiophile Edition!

Xtra Styles PAKs were such a hit... we couldn't stop making them! Since their introduction, we've released 3 more PAKs with a total of over 600 Xtra Styles in all!

Want to hear what other program users are doing with their Xtra Styles? Visit our Xtra STyles Contests forum to hear all the songs submitted during previous song contest we've had: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=102&page=1

Learn more about Xtra Styles PAKs and listen to their demos at http://www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=win.

Band-in-a-Box® Customer Feedback - Feel The Love!

Check out some great feedback we've received on our Facebook account from program users:

"I have been using Band-in-a-Box for years. It is the anchor of my music gigs as well as my fun in my studio. I have used other software but Band-in-a-Box is my main go to."
-Jack T.

"Love Band-in-a-Box. As someone who played professionally for 20 years and retired from live performing years ago, I still love music. Band-in-a-Box allows me to create fun arrangements which I can sing over or play over. There are THOUSANDS of different variations plus you can enter any chords you like and create any chart. It's also great for creating background tracks for videos and audio content for websites, training etc. And like everything else in the world . . . it may not be right for everyone. For those who love music and don't have the time to shed five or six instruments it's way cool."
-Vinnie R.

"This program has completely changed my playing for the good. I can experiment with playing chords and leads over various scenarios that I can quickly create and change. Love this program. I use it nearly every day."
-Dave R.

"I bought my first version in 1994 and have progressed to 2018 version. I use it to create backing tracks for live music performance. I currently have over 2,000 songs performance ready. If you can and type, and use mouse it will work for you."
-Roger M.

"The premiere reason for me for buying this program; it has given me the freedom to fully complete the foundation for my songs without the confinement of limited minded musicians. After the song concept is complete, it can then be presented those musicians to play as a cover song. Also writing a song with a band gives them partial ownership of your idea... not cool... especially since they may have fought your idea every step of the way.. Every member of an organized band should own a copy of this program to compose or to even give legitimate composition alternatives to the original songwriter."
-Paul V.

Thanks everyone!

Support for ABC Notation Format in Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows!

ABC notation is the simple text-based notation system used by musicians worldwide to store chords, melody, and lyrics of songs. Now with Band-in-a-Box® 2018 for Windows you can open and save songs in ABC notation format!

To save the song in ABC notation format, press the [Save As] toolbar button and choose Save as ABC notation file from the menu. Once opened, select a track that you want to save and choose your other criteria - The [Copy to clipboard] button will copy the file to the clipboard (that you can then paste it into other programs). The [Save as File] button will let you type a name and select the destination in your hard drive.

Band-in-a-Box® Song Title Browser Requests Forum

Have you stumped the Song Title Browser feature in the Band-in-a-Box® StylePicker?

If you tried to search for a popular song and this feature didn't offer you any listings, we'd love it if you'd let us know in our Wishlist forum here.

Posting your requests to this forum really does work - we used it to increase the database with the Band-in-a-Box® 2018 release!

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