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Im thinking of buying the Audiophile edition of BIAB. Can anyone tell me if the Real Tracks will sound as good as the Tyros 4 arranger keyboard or some of the top Yamaha arranger keyboards ??  From what i herd on the demos on line the sounds kind of sound weak .One answer i got from a guy was those demos are compressed files and that if i buy Audiophile i will hear much better sound becuase the files are not compressed .Is this true or false ? And then there is the question what if i want to make it into an mp3 after creating a recording will that change it back to a compressed file or not ? Lot of questions here. Hope to get some feed back on these subjects . Regards, Greg
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Yes mp3's are compressed files.
Yes the online samples are compressed files.
Yes, there will be a bit of sound improvement with the audiophile version, but not drastic in most cases. Comparing them to a sampler like Yamaha synths is not a fair comparison. Different animals.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I agree with rharv's answer.
In my opinion, will the audiophile version (which I have) be "much" better sounding? No. It is better sounding, but not by a great deal. As of version 2011, again only in my opinion, there is even less of a difference than there used to be.
If you are listening in a quiet environment like a studio with pro-level equipment, and you have good ears, then you can hear the difference (especially on certain instruments, such as solo acoustic guitar, and certain parts of a drum kit). Anything less than those conditions and it is more hard to tell. The one exception to that is to remember that noise is additive in a mix, so when mixing many RealTracks into a finished song, it is more likely you can tell a difference more easily.
About making the final mix into an MP3, in my opinion the bit rate you choose to encode the MP3 will make more of a difference than the audiophile versus regular RealTracks, but every mix is different.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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You say that the Yamaha arranger keyboards are a different animal then BIAB.Could you further exsplain this ? And since they are different animals which one in your opinion sounds better as far as sound quality ?
I did hear the demos of BIAB through my pa sound system and i did hear a yamaha arranger keyboard through my pa sound system and they sound totaly different for sure. The yamaha arranger styles seem to have thicker bass and drums. BIAB seems like the real tracks are back in the speaker box not out front as much .More like listen to a radio .The horns and trumpets sound fine but the drums and bass sound weak as far as the thickness goes . I don't know how else to exsplain this .Is there something in BIAB that can ajust these real styles ?Is each instrument with in the style ajustable to correct the voices with in the style or is what i hear in the demos is what i would be getting ? Also does the computer have any thing to do with the sound .Im running my computer through a Mackie Mixer and power amp into a pair of 15 inch with horn EV Eliminators .Now hearing things through my head phones it sounds a little better why that is i don't know either .Alot of questions here . And my last quetions is do you think it is worth buying the uncompressed verson of BIAB if im going to play it through my pa ? Thanks for your last reply .
P/S uncompressed files are bigger and i found they do not send in e-mails for Sharing unless compressed into an MP3 .How do you guys handle that ?
Regards,
Greg
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Hi Greg,
Playing a keyboard and using BIAB are very different.
What would you like BIAB to do for you? If you can gives us a little more insight on how you anticipate that the program will be useful for you, we'd be able to answer whether or not the program would be suitable.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Quote:
BIAB seems like the real tracks are back in the speaker box not out front as much .More like listen to a radio .The horns and trumpets sound fine but the drums and bass sound weak as far as the thickness goes . I don't know how else to exsplain this .Is there something in BIAB that can ajust these real styles ?
Hi Greg,
You are describing a classic Gain Stage problem, in which your computer sound device is not driving the line input of your PA hard enough. That is typically described as a "thin" sound.
Don't know what you are currently using for a sound device or soundcard, but whenever I attach my computer to an external amplifier to use with programs such as Band in a Box, I always visit the software mixer applet for that sound device, locate the Master output fader and the Wav output fader - and turn both of them all the way up. This is because Line Level audio needs to be DRIVEN. Attempts to get the desired gain after that stage, such as turning up the physical volume at the PA, won't cut it. Or as I teach in Recording and Sound Reinforcement engineering classes to the beginners, "Always drive a line, never try to suck gain out of a line."
There is also the situation where you may have a PA input that is at Pro Line Level (+4dBu) but the sound device of the PC is likely Consumer Level Line (-10dBv) -- which is often a Balanced input while the PC soundcard is quite often an Unbalanced Consumer Level output. Read, "less voltage" there. This may not be a problem at your end, all depends upon what your soundcard and PA system are - and possibly how you have it hooked up.
It is possible - and actually proper - to have BiaB playback sound as rich and full, for the most part, as the arranger keyboard. And that can be done with the "regular" offering as well as the Audiophile version.
--Mac
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I can't add anything to what Mac said, read his post carefully.
Synths use a 'sample' of the instrument. when you hit a note on the keyboard it triggers a note. That note will play the same everytime (or may a little variation depending on velocity or aftertouch, but not much)
Realtracks are actual recordings of musicians playing parts. You won't get a note triggered to sound exactly the same (like a synth), which adds a lot to the 'realness' of the end product.
Some people have become very used to sampled sounds and prefer them as predictable. Some (like me) prefer the 'real' sound of someone playing the instrument with all its nuances.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I am confused by the question. If oyu use Real band to create songs that play back midi events through some specific keyboard, they will sound the same every time because it is that keyboard generating the sound. If you use the prerecorded snippets of music that are Real Tracks, you get what guitar and amp Brent Mason was playing when they sampled him.
Not following here....
Midi is data, audio is sound. Midi note events play back on whatever device is listening on the channel.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Thanks guys for that info .Noel I had a yamaha arranger keyboard but gave it up . I found it do diffacult to learn how to play and sing at the same time .So i changed my thinking and sold the keyboard and would like to learn how to use backing tracks to sing along with.I'm thinking BIAB might be the answer.I did try some of those on line midi songs but they sound cheap. Was thinking i can take those midi songs and input them into BIAB and convert them to Real Tracks. Mac as far as the line levels goes on my computer where would i locate those ? I did locate the Realtec HD AUDIO OUTPUT would that be it ? I turned that all the way up. I do not see a wave output unless im not looking in the right place ? I Have another question about BIAB .Can i take a song in real tracks and input it into real band and do a balance there ? What I mean does it have a feature where i can ajust volume ,Bass and Treble of each instrument or does it just ajust volume levels .If it is possible to ajust the bass ,treble well i would think this could thicken the the instruments .Does BIAB have that feature ? When it comes to the keyboard arangments i was refering to the style accomplements .When i played that through my pa the 15 inch woofers were moving in and out like there was more presure on the speakers and more hard hitting and direct .It seems like the Demos on BIAB don't push the woofers it only drives my horns. I'M Not hearing those deep low bass notes. So could it be those demos are not mixed in realband or is it the sound level coming from my computer ? My computer does not have a left and right out put for speakers it only has one out put which i am using a Y jack and then into my Mackie ProFX8 mixer input jacks left and right channel 7/8 L-R im going from the computer size out put jack to a 1/4 jack into the mixer inputs from there everything is going out into my EV eliminator speakers .
Regards,
Greg
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What is your pwoer amp like? Run your interface into a power amp, preferable also a mixer for some parametric EQ, and you should be fine. I run 100w powered speakers and the sound is great right out of RB.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Quote:
Was thinking i can take those midi songs and input them into BIAB and convert them to Real Tracks.
The Real Tracks don't "convert" midi tracks. RT's are prerecorded audio files. It sounds like you want to use Biab to create exact covers of standard songs. Biab is not designed for that. You can get fairly close but if you want to use Biab to create a cover of Satisfaction for example, that's not going to happen unless you're playing that guitar part yourself. You can load a midi file into Biab and mute say a rhythm guitar par, pick a style and load in one of several rhythm guitar RT's and hear what they sound like. But that RT has little to do with the midi file except tempo and key sig. Biab will give you the chords by analyzing the midi file but those chords may or may not be accurate depending on several factors. Chords are not part of the midi standard, this is something Biab does by itself. You then have to go into the Biab chord grid and correct any chords you think are wrong, then you can start generating RT parts. If there's a stop or punch in the midi file you want to duplicate there's ways of setting up Biab so the RT might do those but again, that may not be exactly what the midi file is doing. When you generate RT's they are not dependent on what's in a midi file, they are separate, discreet audio tracks. When you want to work with midi files and combine them with RT's that is best done with Real Band, not Biab and that is a whole other discussion.
As to your other question about your PC audio output, line levels etc, I think you need some basic education in digital audio. Start by going to Mac's Audiominds website (the link is below his signature) and click on the 'Getting Started' button. Lots of good info there.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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HiJazzmammal,
Let me re word what im trying to say .There is a feature as i understand which is called the CHORD WIZARD. Acording to my understanding i should be able to take a midi song from off the internet and place it in BIAB .From there the CHORD WIZARD is supose to read the chords from the midi song and place it in BIAB .From there i thought i can take a REAL STYLE and place it into those chords in BIAB and that would give me those chord changes but only with a Real Style instead of the original midi sounding song i started with.
Regards,
Greg
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Greg,
I recently sold my original Tyros keyboard. The "midi" patches and sounds were awesome when used with Biab's midi styles. You would only want to use your Tyros 4 "midi" patches that are not currently matched with Real Tracks.
The Tyros styles are factory set with DSP & effects, so if your song contains a Tyros style, you would only want to "add" to it with use of the Real Tracks that are not currently in that specific Tyros style. The Tyros styles stand on their own and don't need much, unless you need a Real Track solo in your song that can't be recorded "live" enough from the Tyros.
However, if you are using a Biab midi style to create a song with, you will want to use as many Real Tracks as possible in it to compete with the sounds of the Tyros 4.
Marrying both Real Tracks and the Super Articulated Voices on the Tyros in a song is what you are after. Use the Tyros voices on the midi parts that are NOT already covered by a Real Track.
Trax
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Eddie my power amp is pushing 550 watts per channel and im using an exsternal mixer to EQ with,So i know i have enough power going to the speakers.I think it might have something to do with running the computer into my system .If i run my regular CD Player into my sound system and play something like Randy Travis the speakers have plenty of deep bass and good highs but when playing BIAB demos it sounds thin.
Trax I don't own a key board any more i want to get into backing tracks for singing with ,but im also debating if i want to invest in BIAB .I'm trying to learn more about it but as of now the demos really sound thin when playing the demos from my computer into my sound system .
Regards.
Greg
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I gave this problem some more thought and i think now i know why the demos sound thin through my sound system.The demos are set at Flat response with no EQ on the instrumetns in the real Track . Also they are compressed files . So there is to factors that cab be the problem here 1 the demo real tracks are compressed and 2 they were created with no EQ .I think once the Real Track is inputed into Real Band and EQ set for each instrument in the real Track this should take care of the poor sound im hearing on the demos. Also i learned that i can exstrac chords from live audio files using the chord Wizard to place chords into BIAB. From here i can use a real style and place it into the chords and then send it to the Real Band to EQ to improve the over all sound of the style .Correct me if im wrong does this all make sence . P/s can some one send me a band in a box real style after it was sent into REAL BAND to be E Q ? The demos are useless to me . packed4heaven@comcast.net Regards, Greg
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Yes, what you are saying makes sense. RB does allow a bunch of FX for the tracks, and they do make a difference. EQ, compression, reverb, lost of fun toys.
BTW you can also just do the generating in RB too if you want. It'll find the chords and let you generate realtracks and MIDI.
Many find it quicker to do that part in BiaB though. Then go to RB.
Just for more confusion; the Audio Chord Wizard started in RB! Then was added to BiaB. The two programs share a lot of things but are very different.
Last edited by rharv; 09/22/11 04:28 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Quote:
I gave this problem some more thought and i think now i know why the demos sound thin through my sound system.The demos are set at Flat response with no EQ on the instrumetns in the real Track . Also they are compressed files . So there is to factors that cab be the problem here 1 the demo real tracks are compressed and 2 they were created with no EQ .I think once the Real Track is inputed into Real Band and EQ set for each instrument in the real Track this should take care of the poor sound im hearing on the demos. Also i learned that i can exstrac chords from live audio files using the chord Wizard to place chords into BIAB. From here i can use a real style and place it into the chords and then send it to the Real Band to EQ to improve the over all sound of the style .Correct me if im wrong does this all make sence .
P/s can some one send me a band in a box real style after it was sent into REAL BAND to be E Q ? The demos are useless to me .
packed4heaven@comcast.net
Regards,
Greg
Consider yourself corrected, Greg. No offense meant.
I will tell you right now that I have no problem getting great sound from Band in a Box on my rather long in the tooth laptop when connecting it to any PA system. The Realtracks sound great as-is right out of the box after simply typing in a few chords, selecting a Realstyle or separated Realtracks, and hit Play.
You state that your Playback mixer for the Realtek card does not show the Wave volume fader. This is likely your real problem.
1) Open the Realtek's Windows Mixer applet by doubleclicking on the little speaker icon in the taskbar next to the clock.
2) When that little window opens, go to the OPTIONS menu and select PROPERTIES.
3) The next window should show two radio buttons, top one selected, which is the Playback mixer view.
4) Below that should be a little window with checkboxes next to all available audio outputs. It is likely that WAVE is not checked. Put a checkmark in front of WAVE. I usually just put a checkmark in front of everything there so that I will see all available faders and settings when opening the applet.
Once you close the windows it should return to the Mixer View. Turn the WAVE fader you just invoked all the way up and make sure the MASTER fader is all the way up when driving your PA as well.
Lastly, the physical connection, the wiring, from your pc to the pa may be a problem also. Please describe exactly how your hookup is established right now, what kind of adaptors and cables you are using and where they are attached at both the computer and at your PA mixer inputs and we can sort that out as well.
RealTracks have the ability to deliver good sound right as they come out of the box.
BTW, Band in a Box does indeed have Audio Tone controls as well as Audio Volume controls inside it, but you should not be adjusting those to compensate for low output, so let's get to the bottom of that first.
--Mac
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Quote:
Let me re word what im trying to say .There is a feature as i understand which is called the CHORD WIZARD. Acording to my understanding i should be able to take a midi song from off the internet and place it in BIAB .From there the CHORD WIZARD is supose to read the chords from the midi song and place it in BIAB .From there i thought i can take a REAL STYLE and place it into those chords in BIAB and that would give me those chord changes but only with a Real Style instead of the original midi sounding song i started with.
Yes, this is correct. It was just your choice of words that was confusing. Technically you're not converting a midi song file to a RT song. You're creating a whole new song based on the style you select and the chords. The new song has nothing whatsoever to do with what's in the midi file except for the chords. That means you could take a midi file of Sting's Sister Moon, have Biab give you the chords then select a Bluegrass style and have it played back as a country foot stompin hoedown.
You can also set Biab up to play the midi file along with your new generated tracks. By playing around inside Biab's SEQ window, you can mute the midi tracks you want to replace with new RT parts but still hear the other tracks. Doing this you can keep certain song specific parts that identifies what it is.
Once you get into this, Biab and RB can do whatever you need for your backing tracks to sing with. Guys on this forum have been doing that for years with great results. Also, keep working with Mac, he will get your audio problem solved. I've got a nice home studio set up plus I've played Biab live from my laptop. I get all the in-your-face punch you would ever need through my PA.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I found this discussion interesting and helpful, since I use BIAB and a Yamaha arranger in live settings almost daily. As a solo performer, I select which to use depending on the gig and various circumstances. I get plenty of gain with both through a small mixer and powered EV speakers. Fortunately, that's never been an issue for me. With BIAB, I was slow to adopt the Real Tracks and stayed with midi for a long time. Now, I've seen the light and have moved toward the RTs, especially with the latest additions and upgrades. I do a lot of remixing and resaving to keep things right. I've got far more material, styles, and songs to work with in BIAB. In this case, I'm on guitar, with vocals. However, the Yamaha styles and polished sound really sit well for instrumental dinner music in a solo setting. In terms of overall sound from the speakers, I can't say my clients prefer one over the other. The rhythm section from BIAB approximates a real band, in my estimation, better than the arranger. The arranger, however, seems to be a fatter, fuller sound. Those strings, vocal backups, etc. really dress it up. Wish BIAB had that. My dream would be the "marrying" (as someone said) of the two programs. For recording or creating backing tracks, imagine being able to quickly type-in chord changes for a professional arranger, without having to play it in real time, or use the dreadful step recording? I'd pay dearly for something like that.
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Hello Mac ,
I clicked on the icon and opened the menue.I do not see propertes and I do not see any Wave at all .The only thing i see is REALTECK HD AUDIO OUTPUT .I ajusted that all the way up.Does not make any difference on the sound quality .Why does WAVE make the difference? I don't know where else to look for this .Is it possible i do not have WAVE on this computer ? I only see REALTECK HD AUDIO OUTPUT LEVEL.Any other place to look for this WAVE ? Thanks for your support .
Regards,
Greg
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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